The Electric Vehicle Thread

[aja8888]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolau Hmmm, one of the technophiles needs to calculate how many miles the stereo costs out of the 620 (potential). Heh, heh, YMMV.

Where is ERD50 when you need him

[Koolau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888 Where is ERD50 when you need him

I was thinking the same thing and expect he'll have the answer soon.

[Samsung4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolau calculate how many miles the stereo costs out of the 620 (potential).

1,000 km range.
100 km / h.
100 kWh energy.
1 kW 'leakage'.

First approximation:

Time: 1,000 km / 100 km/h = 10 h.
Leakage: 1 kW * 10 h = 10 kWh
'Useful' energy: 100 kWh - 10 kWh = 90 kWh
'Leaky' Range: 90 kWh * 1,000 km / 100 kWh = 900 km.

Only if in autodrive mode as driver would be well done by time battery flattened.

Time to apply calculus to determine precise range.

[kgtest]

Who needs to go anywhere with the internet, Uber Eats now delivering food and weed, Amazon Prime + FedEx, UPS and Shipt, and soon enough all of THAT will be automated with no human needed. I think Musk said that in 10 years there won't be steering wheels in new production auto. That means my son not only will miss out on the "manual" transmission but also the "manual" steering of a car. AI will be the next thing that gets tackled at break neck speed after we solve the EV puzzle. There is a point of no return but I still think people hold onto things so there will always be that guy down the street with an old gasoline car. But imagine when gas stations stop selling gas. That will be the day.

That whole we are addicted to oil idea will get shuttered.

I am convinced at some point people and goods will be modularized transport. Ride sharing will be common place with transfer stations basically in place of gas stations. You will go to the gas station to get picked up instead of fill up. Then the name of the consumer game will be, how long can we keep you at the transfer to make $$$ off of you.

[Koolau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samsung4321 <SNIP> Only if in autodrive mode as driver would be well done by time battery flattened.

Heh, heh, I was still driving 10 hours in the ol' Buick at age 65. Not so much anymore but YMMV.

So, how many miles lost to the stereo? ~6??

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolau Hmmm, one of the technophiles needs to calculate how many miles the stereo costs out of the 620 (potential). Heh, heh, YMMV.

I saw that the NIO ET7 has a 150-kWh battery to deliver that 600-mile range. That works out to 0.25 kWh/mile, which is about right, usually at the speed of 60 mph.

Then, driving at 60 mph, the motor burns 0.25 kWh every mile or every minute. That's 0.25 * 60 = 15 kW power. Now, add the audio power to that.

The 1kW audio is only peak power. I don't believe any loudspeaker, or human listener can stand 1 kW audio power continuously, but let's just use the 1 kW continuous.

Then, the car uses 16 kW total instead of 15 kW. The range will be shortened proportionally. Instead of 600 miles, it is now 600*15/16 = 562.5 miles.


PS. By the way, a 150-kWh battery is 50% more than the biggest Tesla battery of 100 kWh. I wonder how much this ET7 weighs. The darn thing is going to be heavy like a Rolls Royce.

[Qs Laptop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samsung4321 Not available yet. What theory precludes it?

I suppose there is no theory that precludes charging a 100 kWh battery in one second, but in practice I would guess it's impossible. That's a lot of power to be transferring in one second. I suspect the amount of heat created alone would be problematic, not to mention the size of the charging cable and charge point terminals.

[Koolau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound I saw that the NIO ET7 has a 150-kWh battery to deliver that 600-mile range. That works out to 0.25 kWh/mile, which is about right, usually at the speed of 60 mph. Then, driving at 60 mph, the motor burns 0.25 kWh every mile or every minute. That's 0.25 * 60 = 15 kW power. Now, add the audio power to that. The 1kW audio is only peak power. I don't believe any loudspeaker, or human listener can stand 1 kW audio power continuously, but let's just use the 1 kW continuous. Then, the car uses 16 kW total instead of 15 kW. The range will be shortened proportionally. Instead of 600 miles, it is now 600*15/16 = 562.5 miles. PS. By the way, a 150-kWh battery is 50% more than the biggest Tesla battery of 100 kWh. I wonder how much this ET7 weighs. The darn thing is going to be heavy like a Rolls Royce.

Yeah, I recall when folks were experimenting with cars powered by electric motors supplied by lead-acid batteries. Someone very quickly coined the term "Lead Sled."

Oh, and thanks for the calculations.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888 Where is ERD50 when you need him

Busy with Christmas decos! I see Samsung4321 and NW-Bound covered it (pick your units - km or miles!), with the real-world observation that no one will be blasting 1KW into speakers for long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound ... The 1kW audio is only peak power. I don't believe any loudspeaker, or human listener can stand 1 kW audio power continuously, but let's just use the 1 kW continuous. Then, the car uses 16 kW total instead of 15 kW. The range will be shortened proportionally. Instead of 600 miles, it is now 600*15/16 = 562.5 miles. ... .

-ERD50

[Samsung4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qs Laptop I suppose there is no theory that precludes charging a 100 kWh battery in one second, but in practice I would guess it's impossible. That's a lot of power to be transferring in one second. I suspect the amount of heat created alone would be problematic, not to mention the size of the charging cable and charge point terminals.

https://www.early-retirement.org/for...ml#post2693801

[NW-Bound]

Can't find out about the weight of this ET7.

FYI: A Rolls Royce Cullinan weighs 6,069 lbs. A Tesla X P100D with the 100-kWh battery already weighs 5,531 lbs.

[NW-Bound]

Remember this ad slogan from Wendy's in the 80s: "Where's the beef?"

It's now "Where's the electricity?"

I just saw this article on Yahoo Finance.

Quote:

The cheapest coal in America has never been so expensive, as demand for the dirtiest fossil fuel surges ahead of winter. Coal from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming and Montana more than doubled in the past month to $30.70 a ton, according to data from S&P Global Market Intelligence released Monday. That’s the highest in spot-market records going back to 2005. Pricier coal from Central Appalacia has also surged to a 12-year high. U.S. power plants are burning more coal amid a global shortage of natural gas. But miners are struggling to boost output and supply-chain bottlenecks are holding up deliveries...

See: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/dirti...165950822.html

[Samsung4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound "Coal from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming and Montana more than doubled in the past month to $30.70 a ton"

China sucking in; affecting 'stranded' coal price in USA - especially after banning Australian coal.

Why is the coal industry making more money than ever before?
'"If you look at the increase in coal-fired power demand for the year to August, it's equivalent to 190 million tonnes of coal burnt," Mr Simington said.'
'The price of coal in China has now hit a staggering US$350 ($468) a tonne for a less quality product than Australian coal.'

Coal, Australian thermal coal Monthly Price - US Dollars per Metric Ton

[Koolau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samsung4321 China sucking in; affecting 'stranded' coal price in USA - especially after banning Australian coal. Why is the coal industry making more money than ever before? '"If you look at the increase in coal-fired power demand for the year to August, it's equivalent to 190 million tonnes of coal burnt," Mr Simington said.' 'The price of coal in China has now hit a staggering US$350 ($468) a tonne for a less quality product than Australian coal.' Coal, Australian thermal coal Monthly Price - US Dollars per Metric Ton

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Remember this ad slogan from Wendy's in the 80s: "Where's the beef?" It's now "Where's the electricity?" I just saw this article on Yahoo Finance. See: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/dirti...165950822.html

I see this as a corollary to the old adage that you can't fool mother nature. Deciding that coal is dirty and Nat. Gas is clean and green(er) sets us up for supply-chain issues that (in the relatively inelastic energy markets) cause wide fluctuations in prices. Maybe some day we'll sort it all out. For now, it's gonna be a mess and it's gonna be expensive - and not all that green IMHO. YMMV

[Samsung4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolau how many miles lost to the stereo? ~6??

'Leakless' range: 1,000 km.
'Leaky' range: 900 km. (Actually 909.09 km).
Change in range: -100 km * 0.6214 ml/km = -62.14 ml.

[Samsung4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolau Deciding that coal is dirty and Nat. Gas is clean and green(er) sets us up for supply-chain issues that (in the relatively inelastic energy markets) cause wide fluctuations in prices.

Caused by COVID-19 affected world, esp USA, shifting manufacturing demand to non-COVID-19 affected world, esp China. People bored at home increasing orders of on-line stuff, ports clogged, frantic double ordering.

All turn on head when the stuff passes through the ports.

[Koolau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samsung4321 Caused by COVID-19 affected world, esp USA, shifting manufacturing demand to non-COVID-19 affected world, esp China. People bored at home increasing orders of on-line stuff, ports clogged, frantic double ordering. All turn on head when the stuff passes through the ports.

I was talking about the supply-chain of fossil fuels - not consumer goods. Sorry I didn't make that more clear. YMMV

[Samsung4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolau I was talking about the supply-chain of fossil fuels - not consumer goods. Sorry I didn't make that more clear. YMMV

Understood.

Unexpected increase in demand in supply-chain for consumer goods results in unexpected manufacturing energy demand and unexpected price increase for energy and goods.

Longer term demand for goods is inversely related to the relative price of constituent commodities.

[Qs Laptop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samsung4321 https://www.early-retirement.org/for...ml#post2693801

Your link addresses a possible charging cable design that can handle 2,400 amps without frying which might, possibly, make it feasible to charge an EV in FIVE minutes.

Wishing something theoretical that might possibly be done in 5 minutes could get extrapolated to be possible in 1 minute is fantasy.

You're going to have to do better than that!

[Samsung4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qs Laptop Your link addresses a possible charging cable design that can handle 2,400 amps without frying which might, possibly, make it feasible to charge an EV in FIVE minutes. Wishing something theoretical that might possibly be done in 5 minutes could get extrapolated to be possible in 1 minute is fantasy. You're going to have to do better than that!

Already did - check the current. EV Charging Cable resistance: ~800 mΩ/km = ~8 mΩ/10m.

Joule’s Law: H (Heat) = I (Current) x V (Voltage) x T (Time).

or: H (Heat) = I^2 (Current squared) x R (Resistance) x T (Time).

Water vaporised 10 m cable: = ((1000 ^ 2) * 0.008 * 60) / 2260000 = 0.212 kg = small cup.

3 m cable: 0.064 kg.

Joule

• energy transferred to (or work done on) an object when a force of one newton acts on that object in the direction of the force's motion through a distance of one metre (1 newton-metre or N⋅m).
• energy dissipated as heat when an electric current of one ampere passes through a resistance of one ohm for one second.