The Electric Vehicle Thread

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by aja8888 In the future, when OIL & GAS resources run out, there will be no plastic materials (no more iPhones!), a good portion of medicines won't be available, cold regions of countries will have to heat homes with wood or coal, the internet will be useless, rubber products will have to be made from rubber trees, clothes will be made of wool only, and on and on. EV's won't be here either...

I hope chemists will find a way to synthesize plastic from organic matters, such as vegetable oil.

Everything will be more expensive though, and people will learn to weave baskets to carry stuff instead of using plastic bags.

They will not be able to throw away things and upgrade their phones every 2 years.

I surely hope life will not be back to where it was in the 1800s.

[Samsung4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888 In the future, when OIL & GAS resources run out, there will be no plastic materials (no more iPhones!), a good portion of medicines won't be available, cold regions of countries will have to heat homes with wood or coal, the internet will be useless, rubber products will have to be made from rubber trees, clothes will be made of wool only, and on and on. EV's won't be here either...

Hydrogen. Possibly using solar PV electrical energy. Awstralia is keen to deliver it; possibly transported as ammonia / ammonium.

The HV (hydrogen vehicle) may yet kill the EV and the oil well.

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I hope chemists will find a way to synthesize plastic from organic matters, such as vegetable oil.

Polyethylene can be made from methane which can be made from carbon dioxide and hydrogen.

[aja8888]

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Originally Posted by Samsung4321 Hydrogen. Possibly using solar PV electrical energy. Awstralia is keen to deliver it; possibly transported as ammonia / ammonium. The HV (hydrogen vehicle) may yet kill the EV and the oil well. Polyethylene can be made from methane which can be made from carbon dioxide and hydrogen.

Good luck with fueling units in chemical plants!

[Zathras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888 In the future, when OIL & GAS resources run out, there will be no plastic materials (no more iPhones!), a good portion of medicines won't be available, cold regions of countries will have to heat homes with wood or coal, the internet will be useless, rubber products will have to be made from rubber trees, clothes will be made of wool only, and on and on. EV's won't be here either...

If our society continues to burn oil resources, it will collapse before we run out.

[Samsung4321]

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Originally Posted by aja8888 Good luck with fueling units in chemical plants!

Hydrogen for iron smelting is a goal of Awstralian miners.

Renewable hydrogen for the chemical industry

'hydrogen is already an important feedstock for the chemical industry'

Hydrogen fuel cell hybrid HV-EVs remain a possibility.

[Qs Laptop]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound Nio's business model is different. The car owner does not own the battery, but leases it. Nio is responsible for the battery performance. Nio EVs however can also be charged like other EVs, if the owner does not want to pay for a battery swap.

So the best of both worlds. And if the car owner leases the battery it reduces the cost of the vehicle significantly.

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On the Web, it is said that Nio has 600 swapping stations in China, and has done 4 million swaps. I think that is because Nio does not have a network of superchargers to accommodate long-trip travelers.

Well, what would you rather do on a long trip? Have a couple of supercharging station as your destination and spend an hour and a half or two hours at each station recharging? Or have a couple of battery swap facilities as your destinations, perhaps even have an appointment, and spend 5 minutes in each facility and be on your way?

The point is NIO has found a good workaround to the waiting 2 hours for your battery to charge problem.

[Sunset]

Oil will not run out for literally 1,000's of years, if ever.

It will just become a very small expensive resource, too expensive to waste on running a machine that can be replaced with an electric one.

[Samsung4321]

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Originally Posted by Sunset Oil will not run out for literally 1,000's of years, if ever.

Near me:

Grocery shop: canola oil $A2.80 / L
Garage: diesel $A1.70 / L

Not a great disparity. Vegetable oils needs esterification.

Vegetable oils have free fatty acid which can be esterified with alcohol to make better diesel fuel. A waste of food grade oil and land to grow it.

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by Sunset Oil will not run out for literally 1,000's of years, if ever. It will just become a very small expensive resource, too expensive to waste on running a machine that can be replaced with an electric one.

I agree with that. The flow will not stop but becomes a trickle, and if oil becomes scare and expensive, even EVs may not be affordable to many people, because the manufacturing cost of many things will skyrocket. Life will not be the same.

Oil and gas are used for a lot more things than to burn in cars. Left to itself, the current high consumption will deplete the supply, and the free market will dictate what demands to fulfill via pricing. Do we burn this barrel of oil in a big pickup truck, or use it to make plastic containers, or to make fertilizer for planting crops? Oil will be rationed among these uses according to the relative economic benefit of each.

But after all cars are converted to EV, I have not seen anybody mention what will replace natural gas used for heating. Nat gas price in Europe just set a new high, because supply is limited.

[Samsung4321]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound what will replace natural gas used for heating

Hydrogen.

[Martinboyle_85]

The modern hybrids are lousy excuses for technology; the Prius, which was released 20 years ago, was a minor step in the right direction. Toyota continues to produce identical vehicles now and has not progressed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius

[DayDreaming]

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Originally Posted by Samsung4321 Little Generator Trailer Lets Electric Cars Go the Distance Not quite as peculiar as it seems at first sight - if the trailer could be rented like U-Haul. Could be used on routes with no chargers.

Towing this trailer is bound to reduce the range that the EV gets. I wonder if the generator would be able to more than make up for that, or it it'll be just break even.

[ERD50]

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Originally Posted by Samsung4321 Hydrogen.

And where do you get the hydrogen from? Most hydrogen today is extracted from petroleum products (AKA hydro-carbons). And then the carbon is released. No much of a "solution".

Yes, you can make hydrogen with renewable electricity. That just makes hydrogen a storage medium. Not sure that is any better than a battery.

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Originally Posted by Martinboyle_85 The modern hybrids are lousy excuses for technology; the Prius, which was released 20 years ago, was a minor step in the right direction. Toyota continues to produce identical vehicles now and has not progressed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius

Can you expand on that? Even if they have not progressed in 20 years (and I'm very skeptical of that), that doesn't mean they don't have an important place in all this.

-ERD50

[Car-Guy]

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Originally Posted by Sunset Oil will not run out for literally 1,000's of years, if ever. It will just become a very small expensive resource, too expensive to waste on running a machine that can be replaced with an electric one.

And that's only a few decades away at present rates of consumption.... IMO, that's the real/best reason for needing to convert to EV's or some other alternative fuel source.

Commented on this several times on this forum

Ex.See post 53 in the thread/link below....
https://www.early-retirement.org/for...-108005-3.html

[MBAustin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinboyle_85 The modern hybrids are lousy excuses for technology; the Prius, which was released 20 years ago, was a minor step in the right direction. Toyota continues to produce identical vehicles now and has not progressed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius

I beg to differ. I had a 2010 (3rd generation Prius) and now have a 2021 Prius Prime (plug-in hybrid). Also had one friend with a 1st gen and one with a 2nd gen and both said my old 3rd gen was a huge improvement over their earlier models. The 2021 is much quieter, more comfortable, and gets better hybrid mileage, but the plug-in is a game changer for people like me who mostly make short trips but want the flexibility of a gasoline engine for long trips. I've got 1000 miles on my new Prime and have used about 2 gallons of gas so far.

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by Samsung4321 Hydrogen.

Hydrogen is not easy to store and to transport. People talked about hydrogen-powered cars for decades, and we have not seen it yet.

Nikola promised a semi-truck powered with fuel cells running on hydrogen. The demo was a scam, and it was discovered that the prototype was just a shell with no engine in it.

The company founder, Trevor Milton, has been indicted on fraud charges. Nikola stock is still trading, and the company valuation is still $5B. I guess shareholders are still hoping for delivery of the promises.

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by Car-Guy And that's only a few decades away at present rates of consumption.... IMO, that's the real/best reason for needing to convert to EV's or some other alternative fuel source. Commented on this several times on this forum Ex.See post 53 in the thread/link below.... https://www.early-retirement.org/for...-108005-3.html

Yes, and we all agree on this statement in that post #53 by Car-Guy.

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In reality though, I suspect we'll have oil for hundreds of years from now, it just won't be used to power cars since it will become too limited and expensive at some point. Whatever is remaining will be needed for other things that only oil can make.

[neihn]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound ^^^ Does anybody know if YouTube is working on videos for use with a VR headset? It will replace travel. There's got to be some areas with more growth potential than EV.

Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 - It does have VR support. I have been travel the world during the pandemic with MSFS2020 (without VR though), it helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sjyeeoJoGI

[Midpack]

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Originally Posted by Sunset Oil will not run out for literally 1,000's of years, if ever. It will just become a very small expensive resource, too expensive to waste on running a machine that can be replaced with an electric one.

You can still buy whale oil...so petroleum won't run out either. It will just become prohibitively expensive and scarce.

[NW-Bound]

Liquid fuel has a higher energy density than fuel in gas form. That's why propane is currently in use, and not hydrogen.

Can we make liquid fuel from renewable sources? Certainly. We can run vegetable oil in diesel engines, or alcohol in ICEs. Back in the early 2000s, I read about a company working on a miniaturized fuel cell running on methanol, with an eye towards usage with portable electronics. Think of a laptop or a cell phone with a small reservoir where you would pour in a cc of methanol. How cool is that? Nothing much was said about that project afterwards, so I guess it was a flop.

So, we already know how to make renewable liquid fuel from plants that we grow. It's just not cheap, if we consider the energy that is needed to cultivate the crop. Not just the fuel to run the machinery, but also where the fertilizer comes from. These can be made from renewable resources too, but this adds another level of complication.

Everything will be a lot more expensive without oil.