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The future: A story and a proposal
Old 10-31-2018, 04:37 PM   #1
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The future: A story and a proposal

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The number of Americans ages 65 and older is projected to more than double from 46 million today to over 98 million by 2060, and the 65-and-older age group’s share of the total population will rise to nearly 24 percent from 15 percent.
The Story: Fran was 91 and lived in the Villa across the street from me in our CCRC, when we moved in in 2004. Her kids were well situated in town, but lived an active life, and Fran wanted her independence. Yes, enough money to live in this independent living home, but not quite independent... wheelchair, strength.. Donna, a 55 year old person who had immigrated from a foreign country, and spoke broken English, had been living in a poor section of Chicago, and had a job that paid minimum wages.
By whatever means, Donna moved in with Fran, had her own room, and became Fran's live in helper. A 24/7/365 helper. Room, board, a car, and enough time to live her own life. I don't know how much she was paid, but for 24/7 care by the local Home Care Center, @ $22/hr, the annual cost would be $193,000.

How many homes are there with elderly people living in them... people who need help, beyond their own abilities. Homes with extra rooms, owned by people who have enough money to live well, but not enough to pay for full time care.

Then.... how many widows or widowers who are in their 60's but who haven't enough money for whatever reason to retire independently. In another thread , 65 year old widows working at Walmart.. standing at the cash register for 5 or 6 hours a day.

How many extra rooms that have heat and airconditioning....How many meals that could serve 3 instead of 2. How many automobiles that get used less than a few hundred miles a year.

How many people who are alone, could live a happier life, with another person around.

Fran died five years ago. I wrote a letter of recommendation for Donna, based on my knowledge. She had another job within a few days. Living with a 85 year old man with beginning Dementia. She's happy, he's doing well and the additional cost and resources for this relationship are tiny compared to the alternative.

The proposal I think you can read between the lines, to realize the potential for the future. We're not there yet, but if something like this could work, maybe one way to look ahead.

What are the downsides? Are you aware of this kind of situation in your own experience?
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Old 10-31-2018, 04:46 PM   #2
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Sharing your home with a live in helper sounds nice.

Lots of risk involved, though. Any practical way to minimize them?

I know a couple of friends, women both in their 70s, who decided to live together in a condo. It's a terrific solution for them, but they were acquaintances before that point.

I'm no so sure how you would decide if a stranger would be safe.
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Old 10-31-2018, 04:48 PM   #3
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Imoldernu - My mom could have greatly benefited by just the type of arrangement you're talking about. She had dementia, and in the end, was paranoid, and refused the in-home care I hired for her, firing at least two caregivers. She did not want someone else living in her house. She wanted to maintain her independence, even when she could no longer remember who to call for a ride to the grocery store. If she had been willing to accept such help, she could have lived her last years in a happier, less paranoid, and safer state.

IMHO, the downsides are the potential for both financial abuse (theft) and physical abuse/neglect/accidents, especially for those caregivers who are untrained. Most people with the proper training can likely make more working 8 hours a day, than 'living in' with someone. And then, there's the loss of privacy. I'm sure it would work well for a lot of folks, given the proper protections!
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Old 10-31-2018, 04:53 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by imoldernu View Post
The proposal I think you can read between the lines, to realize the potential for the future. We're not there yet, but if something like this could work, maybe one way to look ahead.

I see this all the time on the news.. Generally when the 'caregiver' figures out how to milk the Savings Account of the one being cared for.... Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars later, the story is told.
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:04 PM   #5
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Caretaking is a tradition in our family.

I had two great-great aunts that were pioneers in ND. I mean homestead, sod busting pioneers. The men died young (WWl and disease). The aunts moved in and lived together for another 40-ish years. When one was left and needed assistance, she moved in with our parents until skilled nursing was needed. Many other examples.

Not sure we will be so fortunate. I'm hoping to self-exit if I become a liability (but that's just a plan). Very confident that DS will take care of DW, if needed, until skilled nursing is needed.
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Old 10-31-2018, 07:33 PM   #6
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Had an Aunt who did a significant amount of care giving: cleaning feeding shopping taking to Dr visits for several people in the small college town in which she lived her entire life. people felt comfortable with her as she was so well known and loved. I do wonder what I will do once i start needing such services. No real plans yet. Just thoughts about possibly moving in with relatives or going the CCRC route but more likely in an apt type dwelling.

Have a lot of trepidation at the thought of strangers. Since I volunteer regularly at a nursing home, and I assume the folks who take those low paying jobs would be similar to those who would be hired by home care agencies, it is not at all an attractive option. Of course the CCRC hires may not be much better. So it is a problem looking for a solution still, in my plans.
I think Donna is an exception that most likely proves the rule.
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Old 10-31-2018, 07:44 PM   #7
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A friend of mine had a mom that benefited from a similar arrangement. The woman wasn’t great at holding a regular job but took good care of her mom. She lived in the same town to monitor. I think a key would be to have control of your parents money to a extent that they couldn’t rob much of their money. Although, family members are more likely to rob than strangers according to a study I read.
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Old 11-01-2018, 05:52 AM   #8
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Any structured program to encourage this would need solid safeguards to police for financial fraud and elder abuse. It's the people who need this the most that are at highest risk since they frequently don't have family (or at least responsible family) around to watch their backs.
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:06 AM   #9
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I love your thought process and also dream of a society where people taking care of each other is not a concern, rather a given.

As my Mom is in assisted living with dementia and not able to participate in her own care - ‘Mom remember you need to use your walker, drink more water, etc’ I see the real value of what you describe. Assisted Living facilities, I think, are going to start pushing more of the responsibility for the care of those who need 24/7 type of care back onto patients families. They just can’t do it all and many of these patients are not ready for the ‘lock up’ of a memory care facility. As others have noted, I would be concerned about the motives of any ‘live in’ with my Mom. It would be natural for a dependent type relationship to develop and for my Mom to look at that person as their significant other and to want to provide for them.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:30 AM   #10
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I didn't get in to the nitty-gritty about the "proposal" part, but behind the OP, am thinking that long term, something will have to be done about the increasing numbers of older people who will eventually be reliant on something other than their own savings.
While "healthcare" will not go away, not all older persons require the level of care that must be 24/7 by persons with degrees. How many reasonably healthy persons are in medicaid facilities, simply because there is no other place to go.

As to theft. That's all we ever hear about... no word on those who have found symbiotic relationships of companionship and aid without problems. I would suggest that some type of government involvement at the basis of the cooperative system... for bringing people together, background searches, and financial safety.

The Why?
How many able bodied persons are living in deep poverty and working beyond any reasonable expectations,
while...
so many others are living alone, in large houses, in relative financial safety, but lonely and in need of some degree of care.

Sure... some down sides, but looking ahead, as healthcare costs rise, and the senior population increases, why not look for what could be relatively simple solutions at what could be a very low cost to the country.

I am sure there are already programs that have this sort of approach. We have something like this in our community, but it's only marginally successful. What could happen with a national effort?
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:55 PM   #11
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It sure would be nice if we could make it work.

My parents have a friend who is newly single, finally divorcing her cheating, controlling husband after a long marriage filled with emotional abuse. She has little income and is has trouble getting around outside of the house (she had polio as a kid and uses braces and a cane). She is also an excellent cook and homemaker. It was all she was allowed to do for thirty years, so she honed her skills and took pride in it.

Someone like her would be an excellent live-in companion for a lonely senior.
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Old 11-01-2018, 02:29 PM   #12
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You are only going be told about theft and abuse. Much more interesting than the thousands of positive encounters.
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Old 11-01-2018, 05:59 PM   #13
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One thought from the point of view of the caregiver: what future do they have when they retire? Let's assume that the bulk of their compensation is in the form of room and board, and maybe the use of a car. Even if the person who hires them does the right thing and withholds SS and taxes on whatever stipend they pay them, they're likely to qualify only for a bare minimum of SS. If they're illegal, it may seem a kindness to give them this type of work but they'll be left with even less at retirement. This work becomes physically demanding- bathing, dressing, lifting, getting them in and out of bed, cars, wheel chairs... I had only a few months of caregiving with DH before he died and at the end he really couldn't help at all when I moved him. He weighed only 117 lbs. and I was 15 years younger. If he'd been obese or I'd done that for years, it would have wrecked my back.

I agree it's something we need to consider. I'm 65 and have a house with plenty of room for a caregiver and many others could be in the same position.
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Old 11-02-2018, 09:31 AM   #14
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One thought from the point of view of the caregiver: what future do they have when they retire? Let's assume that the bulk of their compensation is in the form of room and board, and maybe the use of a car. Even if the person who hires them does the right thing and withholds SS and taxes on whatever stipend they pay them, they're likely to qualify only for a bare minimum of SS. If they're illegal, it may seem a kindness to give them this type of work but they'll be left with even less at retirement. This work becomes physically demanding- bathing, dressing, lifting, getting them in and out of bed, cars, wheel chairs... I had only a few months of caregiving with DH before he died and at the end he really couldn't help at all when I moved him. He weighed only 117 lbs. and I was 15 years younger. If he'd been obese or I'd done that for years, it would have wrecked my back.

I agree it's something we need to consider. I'm 65 and have a house with plenty of room for a caregiver and many others could be in the same position.
Good point... In Donna's case, she was eligible for minimum social security, but I know she was being paid a nominal amount... I don't know about the legalities, but Fran paid all the bills and I expect that something was either set aside for Donna or was part of Fran's will. In any case, a great relationship that I'm sure didn't go unrewarded. Fran's children were, and still are mainstays and well respected in the community.

Of course, should the "companion" concept were ever to be come a reality in whatever form, there would be rules and regulations. Hopefully not as a major source for taxation. Would be nice to see compassion rewarded for a change.
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Old 11-02-2018, 10:00 AM   #15
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I had a conversation with a Palliative Care worker in a rural area about this a couple years ago.
He was lamenting that he used to be able to find people in the Filipino community of the large city he came from to provide this type service pretty much just for room & board. He had not been able to work anything out in the 2 years he was in the rural area other than finding family members. Said he never ran into an abuse or theft issue.

I've been getting ads lately for Silvernest.com senior roommate matching service. Wonder if there might be a care element there.
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