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06-15-2010, 03:08 PM
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#1
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W Just West of Woman Hollering Creek
Posts: 6,673
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The Jones Act
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06-15-2010, 03:26 PM
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#2
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeyd
I find it interesting that old laws can still produce unintended consequences 90 years later. Wonder what's taking so long to grant the waiver?
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Probably political sensibilities, and since it's not really related to retirement issues, I'll leave it at that.
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"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
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06-15-2010, 04:11 PM
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#3
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeyd
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The Jones Act is just one manifestation of a far older concept of Cabotage that dates back at least 500 years. It comes more from protectionism in general than from union activities...though unions would general favor restriction of Cabotage.
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06-15-2010, 10:02 PM
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#4
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 7,113
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I don't think that the above is the case at all...
Remember the Gulf War?? Jones Act vessels can be 'drafted' by the military. For this risk the US gov helps pay for the construction of the boat in the USA. This keeps US ship builders alive. Shipyards are critical to the existance of the US Navy but the Navy doesn't build enough ships to keep the industry going. To 'encourage' the construction of Jones Act ship a law was passed to prohibit non-Jones Act ships from calling on two US ports in a row.
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Duck bjorn.
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06-15-2010, 11:53 PM
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#5
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,860
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The Jones Act also keeps foreign cruise lines (like NCL) from totally monopolizing the Hawaii inter-island cruise industry.
So NCL came up with an itinerary including a 600-mile dash to Kiribati, which totally jumpstarted that atoll's economy.
NCL finally obtained an exception to the Jones Act allowing them to bring foreign-built/flagged ships to the inter-island cruise itinerary (without the Kiribati run) as long as they hired an all-American crew and abided by American labor laws. And that's where the trouble started-- it turns out that NCL is accustomed to working its international crews to much harsher standards than American labor laws. Their American-crewed ships did a terrible job for many months with high turnover before things began to settle out.
It's going better now, but they're down to just one ship making seven-day interisland cruises. I'm not sure how Kiribati is doing...
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06-16-2010, 03:21 PM
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#6
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 904
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I think the US gov't does that kind of thing with a lot of industries. I have heard (from reputable sources) that the normal, civilian mkt for ammunition isn't as big as the gov't's needs in time of war so the gov't buys ammo during peacetime and burns it in "deactivation furnaces." This keeps the mfgs in business and at a capacity they want. During a war, they shoot the ammo at the enemy instead of burning it. They sell the lead bullets and brass cases as scrap so they are completely wasting ALL of your money!
Mike D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat
I don't think that the above is the case at all...
Remember the Gulf War?? Jones Act vessels can be 'drafted' by the military. For this risk the US gov helps pay for the construction of the boat in the USA. This keeps US ship builders alive. Shipyards are critical to the existance of the US Navy but the Navy doesn't build enough ships to keep the industry going. To 'encourage' the construction of Jones Act ship a law was passed to prohibit non-Jones Act ships from calling on two US ports in a row.
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I just want to celebrate another day of livin'
I just want to celebrate another day of life
- R. Earth
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06-16-2010, 06:12 PM
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#7
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeD
I think the US gov't does that kind of thing with a lot of industries. I have heard (from reputable sources) that the normal, civilian mkt for ammunition isn't as big as the gov't's needs in time of war so the gov't buys ammo during peacetime and burns it in "deactivation furnaces." This keeps the mfgs in business and at a capacity they want. During a war, they shoot the ammo at the enemy instead of burning it. They sell the lead bullets and brass cases as scrap so they are completely wasting ALL of your money!
Mike D.
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Actually, in the case of the ammunition and the shipyards, we clearl;y get something for our money: an option on the ability to do what is needd when the chips are down. I might not like the fact that this is all in the name of war readiness, but I would not describe it as wasting money.
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"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
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06-16-2010, 08:48 PM
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#8
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 7,113
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The issue with the Jones Act ships during the Gulf War is that many operators could not (would not) make their ships available.
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Duck bjorn.
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06-17-2010, 05:37 AM
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#9
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat
To 'encourage' the construction of Jones Act ship a law was passed to prohibit non-Jones Act ships from calling on two US ports in a row.
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Here's the kicker, they are still prohibited form doing this, unless Customs and Border Protection signs off on the request to go coastwise. How difficult is it to get them to sign of? It is actually very easy all the ship's agent has to do is ask the Customs and Border Protection Officer for permission and provide a couple forms filled out. Then the officer must stamp and sign the forms and permission is granted. It is done so routinely now that the congress might as well get rid of portions of the law.
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You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
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06-17-2010, 09:01 AM
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#10
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 7,113
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Reality about the effectiveness of the Jones Act ships for military use set in during the Gulf War, the ship owners weren't forthcomming and the Gov wasn't willing to arrest the ships. In fact I thnk many avoided comming in to US ports during the window of time when they could be of use. At least that is what I heard from my son who was then at CMA.
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Duck bjorn.
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