The Stoicism Thread

[O2Bfree]

After reading the linked article, I don't believe Kobe thought that he was "wasting time" by doing things with his daughters rather than committing to an interview which, I'm sure, would have been less fulfilling than being with his daughters. (He gets to choose what's important, not someone else)

Some of this stoic stuff doesn't make sense to me.

I think one of the points of stoicism is that the time we spend with loved ones and on our various duties can be greatly enhanced by practicing introspection to comprehend the importance of living in the moment, to understand "how much was wasted in pointless grief, foolish joy, greedy desire, and social amusements." For example, this is from Meditations:

Let this be your stedfast purpose to act continually, in all affairs, as becomes a Roman, and a man, with true unaffected dignity, kindness of heart, freedom, and justice; and disentangle your soul from other solicitudes. You shall thus disentangle yourself, if you perform each action as if it were your last: without temerity, or any passionate aversion to what reason approves; with-out hypocrisy or selfishness, or freting at what providence appoints. You see how few these maxims are, to which, whoever adheres, may live a prosperous and divine life. If a man observe these things, the Gods require no more of him.

I believe the stoics are saying that if the heart is not clarified though introspection, it's possible that the the time spent with loved ones could be wasteful as it may draw you and others down into those pointless griefs, foolish joys, greedy desires, and social amusements.

 

[48Fire]

I thought to add to a list of stoic references to the thread. I found this quote from Seneca to be important. It's easier to say "no" in the era of CV-19. But I've found saying no has enriched my life. I've found that exploring my own ideas and desires without the noise of the outside world of friends, family and commitments creates a sense of growth and introspection.

"Seneca wrote eloquently on how we have “laid waste to your life when you weren’t aware of what you were losing, how much was wasted in pointless grief, foolish joy, greedy desire, and social amusements—how little of your own was left to you.” It’s not that we were given too little time to live, it’s that we wasted too much of it."

https://dailystoic.com/dont-let-them-steal-what-cant-be-replaced/

Thanks for sharing I have had similar thoughts about family. It's been a nice break from the on-going noise. Fortunately, COVID-19 has also strengthened my relationship with my wife, daughter, SIL, and 2 granddaughters. I hope to gain some continued Stoicism practices and be better the next time we visit extended family.

 

[DogGone]

 

[sengsational]

The above video is about 11 minutes and the first third is a basic summary of the history of Stoicism, then relays some ideas, mostly from Seneca, about how easy it is to be ineffective at using time, and perhaps a good use is to think philosophically. And the sponsor just so happens to sell a time saving book summary service.

 

[DogGone]

And the sponsor just so happens to sell a time saving book summary service.

Hmmm missed that. Is that in keeping with the message or contrary to it

 

[Rianne]

Seneca had an interesting group of friends. "Seneca was venerated as a moral thinker; he was also one of Nero's closest advisors." I cannot believe he defended Nero, who attempted to murder his mother, Agrippina, to the Roman Senate. He wrote a letter as though he was Nero and defended his actions. And Caligula was part of his inner circle.
I get his works of moral philosophy and virtue are on the upswing, but researching a bit of his background surprised me.

"These days, Seneca is again on the upswing. In the past year, two new biographies have appeared: “Dying Every Day: Seneca at the Court of Nero” (Knopf), by James Romm, a classicist at Bard College, and “The Greatest Empire: A Life of Seneca” (Oxford), by Emily Wilson, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania. The two volumes are admiring of Seneca’s talents and, to varying degrees, sympathetic to his pedagogical predicament. Romm and Wilson, both teachers themselves, suggest that Nero was, from the start, a lost cause. But they also acknowledge that this leaves a tricky question unresolved. The letter “explaining” Agrippina’s murder is just one of the ways Seneca propped up Nero’s regime—a regime that the average Julius, let alone the author of “De Ira,” surely realized was thoroughly corrupt. How to explain the philosopher-tutor’s sticking by his monstrous pupil?"

I suppose we're influenced by those in power. He's certainly redeemed by his brilliant writings. He was banished to Corsica (God forbid) that awful island with "uncultured inhabitants."

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/02/stoic-2

 

[sengsational]

One extreme is to decide what you think and be impervious to new information. Another extreme is to over-privilege the last thing you learned. In rough terms, Bayesian reasoning is a principled way to integrate what you previously thought with what you have learned and come to a conclusion that incorporates them both, giving them appropriate weights.

This thought rang through as a form of Stoic "virtue" when I was reading an article about "How to Think Like an Epidemiologist". Virtue, being what we humans can uniquely do...leverage our thinking, divorced from the emotions that direct us to "less virtuous" thinking.

 

[Rianne]

This theorem applies to my 19 yr. old thinking VS my 63 yr. old thinking. I'm so much happier at 63.



Bayes's Theorem



The theorem itself can be stated simply. Beginning with a provisional hypothesis about the world (there are, of course, no other kinds), we assign to it an initial probability called the prior probability or simply the prior. After actively collecting or happening upon some potentially relevant evidence, we use Bayes’s theorem to recalculate the probability of the hypothesis in light of the new evidence. This revised probability is called the posterior probability or simply the posterior.

 

[Gumby]

This theorem applies to my 19 yr. old thinking VS my 63 yr. old thinking. I'm so much happier at 63.



Bayes's Theorem



The theorem itself can be stated simply. Beginning with a provisional hypothesis about the world (there are, of course, no other kinds), we assign to it an initial probability called the prior probability or simply the prior. After actively collecting or happening upon some potentially relevant evidence, we use Bayes’s theorem to recalculate the probability of the hypothesis in light of the new evidence. This revised probability is called the posterior probability or simply the posterior.

Or more simply, in the famous quote attributed to John Maynard Keynes: “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?”

 

[unclemick]

50 to 77. After 27 years of hard, hard, training in ER. Grin, I wanna be a -

Curmudgeon!

heh heh heh - Stoism is too high class. DW calls it a result of the Covid blues.

 

[Nemo2]

Not to be outdone:

"I change my mind a lot. I usually don't agree with what I say very much. I'm an awful liar."

David Bowie

 

[Rianne]

What the world needs now. Stoicism.