"The stupidity of buy American"

[MichaelB]

If history repeats itself, perhaps Aesop’s fable of the aunt and grasshopper and the fable relating to the Swiss drilling a hole in wire that America had proudly drawn so fine will refocus American priorities, work ethic (¿and arrogance?)?

Maybe it's early, but I don't get your point.

 

[JOHNNIE36]

I guess the latest gigantic outsourcing of American dollars including labor and material is evident in the new Oakland bay bridge in CA. Set to open in 2013, California decided to give this construction project to China because they could deliver on schedule and cheaper. Estimated to cost $6B, the state says they saved $400M by going to China. Said to take a million man hours to build, we certainly could have used those jobs in this country and the unions are really upset. Somewhere on TV I heard that not only is the fabrication being done in China with their steel, but the installation as well.

 

[justplainbll]

The point was about some of the causes and perhaps solutions to why 'Buy American' is even a topic for discussion.

 

[JPatrick]

Not to overlook Korea. Their earlier cars reminded of early Japanese offerings, as in, low quality. Much better today along with some impressive electronic products from the likes of LG and others.
Considering most foreign manufacturers now build in the US, it is obvious it can be done here when post WWII methods are tossed out.

Given the economy of today, it is hardly the time to ask cash strapped consumers to pay up for "made in USA" if it also happens to be inferior.
Once again it is simply the old adage--Build a better mouse trap and customers will beat a path to your door. Offer a substandard mouse trap and you'd better have a hot blonde as your sales rep.

 

[justplainbll]

Back in '03, my 9 year old Camry got rear ended by a Hyundai. The Camry was hardly scratched but the Hyundai's front was a mess. I'm not anxious to repeat that experience with the new Hyundais.

 

[JPatrick]

Back in '03, my 9 year old Camry got rear ended by a Hyundai. The Camry was hardly scratched but the Hyundai's front was a mess. I'm not anxious to repeat that experience with the new Hyundais.

I don't own a Hyundai, but if you check the record you will find their offerings are much more impressive this day and age.
Too bad that Camry gas pedal wasn't sticking--you could have outrun the Hyundai..

 

[Gatordoc50]

I guess the latest gigantic outsourcing of American dollars including labor and material is evident in the new Oakland bay bridge in CA. Set to open in 2013, California decided to give this construction project to China because they could deliver on schedule and cheaper. Estimated to cost $6B, the state says they saved $400M by going to China. Said to take a million man hours to build, we certainly could have used those jobs in this country and the unions are really upset. Somewhere on TV I heard that not only is the fabrication being done in China with their steel, but the installation as well.

I feel foolish having employees my wife and kids over the past 20 years in my office, paying them rather well. I wish I would have outsourced those jobs like California. I could have improved the bottom line of my business.

 

[Midpack]

I feel foolish having employees my wife and kids over the past 20 years in my office, paying them rather well. I wish I would have outsourced those jobs like California. I could have improved the bottom line of my business.

The CA bridge probably isn't an example, but unfortunately some companies/industries haven't had a choice. I am sure GM, Ford, RCA, Zenith and scores of others wish they could have kept more jobs in the US - they just couldn't compete at the time. That can/will change, but it may take much longer than we'd like. The sooner the better...

The US routinely ran a trade surplus with the world in the mid 70's and before, foreigners bought more "Made in USA" than we did foreign products.

 

[Texas Proud]

Back in '03, my 9 year old Camry got rear ended by a Hyundai. The Camry was hardly scratched but the Hyundai's front was a mess. I'm not anxious to repeat that experience with the new Hyundais.

You could probably substitute almost any brand names here and get the same results... the front of the car is designed to take most of the energy in such a crash...

 

[Nords]

The US routinely ran a trade surplus with the world in the mid 70's and before, foreigners bought more "Made in USA" than we did foreign products.

I don't think the trade-surplus calculation accommodates the change from a manufacturing economy to a service & knowledge economy.

For example an American engineer invents a chip. He e-mails the designs to the Taiwan chip foundry, where they manufacture the hardware and ship it to the U.S. The chip "export" is assessed as "zero" while the value of the imported chips is counted against the U.S. trade deficit.

 

[eridanus]

I think he is spot on about the "certified fair trade" goods too. Take coffee for example. I can't remember the number, but I think it is something like 10 cents per pound of fair trade coffee actually gets to the farmer. But the mark up on fair trade coffee in stores is typically 3000-4000% of this 10 cents. Poor people in developing nations would be far better off if I as a consumer strive to buy the highest value coffee for my dollar, and then take the savings and donate some portion to charity that benefits poor people in developing nations.

Green markup aside, doesn't the charitable giving encourage dependence while the "fair trade" coffee encourages working for a living?

 

[Midpack]

I don't think the trade-surplus calculation accommodates the change from a manufacturing economy to a service & knowledge economy.

For example an American engineer invents a chip. He e-mails the designs to the Taiwan chip foundry, where they manufacture the hardware and ship it to the U.S. The chip "export" is assessed as "zero" while the value of the imported chips is counted against the U.S. trade deficit.

Good point! I wonder how trade is counted for Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans, etc. made in the US?

 

[HFWR]

Certainly, if wringing every last ounce of inefficiency out of the system, eliminating the job of anyone who isn't like a robot, and/or maximizing "shareholder" value while reducing the pay of the "worker" are the goals, I guess we've been "successful"...

 

[travelover]

.......... Somewhere on TV I heard that not only is the fabrication being done in China with their steel, but the installation as well.

Do you mean that they are installing the bridge in China?

Next thing you know they will be allowing Chinese laborers to build our railroads.

 

[HFWR]

Do you mean that they are installing the bridge in China?

Next thing you know they will be allowing Chinese laborers to build our railroads.

But no Irish...

 

[travelover]

But no Irish...

Ya gotta hold the line somewhere.

 

[JPatrick]

But no Irish...

No Irish??

 

[JOHNNIE36]

Do you mean that they are installing the bridge in China?

Next thing you know they will be allowing Chinese laborers to build our railroads.

Sorry for the screw-up in word usage. You can Google the Oakland bay bridge and see the progress.

 

[MichaelB]

But no Irish...

How's this?

 

[FUEGO]

I guess the latest gigantic outsourcing of American dollars including labor and material is evident in the new Oakland bay bridge in CA. Set to open in 2013, California decided to give this construction project to China because they could deliver on schedule and cheaper. Estimated to cost $6B, the state says they saved $400M by going to China. Said to take a million man hours to build, we certainly could have used those jobs in this country and the unions are really upset. Somewhere on TV I heard that not only is the fabrication being done in China with their steel, but the installation as well.

I heard about this too and I think it is a smart move to save the taxpayers 400 million bucks. And I heard domestic production of the steel would have led to an 18 month delay in their schedule. Save $400,000,000 and get people where they need to go quicker and safer? No brainer.

And when I see somebody saving $400 million and the unions are upset, I just say they have priced themselves out of the market. I don't think we, the taxpayers, owe unions $400,000,000 more of our hard earned dollars.

 

[HFWR]

Right, we shouldn't do anything in this country, until we're all working for Chinese wages and under Chinese conditions...

Oh, and God Bless [-]America[/-] China...

 

[Bestwifeever]

But no Irish...

One of the funniest scenes in Blazing Saddles, of course!

 

[FUEGO]

Green markup aside, doesn't the charitable giving encourage dependence while the "fair trade" coffee encourages working for a living?

I bet my actions of buying the low cost reasonable quality coffee has a bigger economic benefit for poor coffee producers. I simply consume more. At the $2-3 per pound I typically pay for coffee, I have no problem if I waste some, make a pot too big, or make extra for family and friends that are visiting. If I was paying $6-8 for more expensive fair trade coffee then I would consume less. I am giving more coffee industry workers more work by consuming more cheaper coffee.

The type of charity that I was referencing in the post you quoted (but excised from your quoted text) actually reaches out to local communities and sources labor and parts and ingenuity locally, thereby adding to the local economy. They provide clean drinking water in poor nations. This local sourcing also facilitates long term maintenance of wells, filters, purification systems, etc because the local people know who to build and maintain the systems and equipment using cheap readily available local parts. Job creation and independence - that's why I gave the guy a donation on the spot.

 

[FUEGO]

Right, we shouldn't do anything in this country, until we're all working for Chinese wages and under Chinese conditions...

Oh, and God Bless [-]America[/-] China...

Protectionism isn't the way to prosperity. Otherwise we could legislate a minimum wage of $50/hr for all workers and ban all imports. Then we would all be filthy rich. Or at least filthy.

 

[HFWR]

Protectionism isn't the way to prosperity. Otherwise we could legislate a minimum wage of $50/hr for all workers and ban all imports. Then we would all be filthy rich. Or at least filthy.

Not talking about protectionism, but if the additional 6% ($400m/$6.3B) was spent in the US, there might have been some multiplier effect. No diss to the Chinese, but I'd rather my neighbor have a job...

I don't think we take into account the swelling unemployment rolls, need for "public" assistance, loss of vitality in neighborhoods, etc. caused by this race to the bottom.