Tire rotation

[street]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amethyst My pal believes in replacing the front tires and leaving the back ones alone, not moving the back ones up front. He thinks this is the cheapest and safest plan. I'm still not sure what this group thinks about that.

Well, if the back is bad then they need changed also. In a response earlier, I in most cases just buy two but you would need to get on that rotation of two tire replacement program.

I have through the years replaced all four but, in my driving, and where my driving occurs the two-tire replacement works great for me.

For me if I was going to drive across the US and back again, I would replace them all if needed.

I believe front end alignment is more important than rotation of tire doing it so often.

[Car-Guy]

And for those reading this thread that don't know, if you ever see the wear bar (some call them breaker strips) showing up even with the remaining tread on your tire(s) "at any point", the tires(s) are already past needing to be replaced. I know some folks that will run their tires to the wear bars... Not me.

[Jerry1]

From TireRack.com:

Quote:

If replacing just two tires on a square setup, the question of position becomes most important - as proper tire position directly affects safety in wet or slippery road conditions. When tires are replaced in pairs, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle, with the partially worn tires moved to the front. Why? Because new tires with deeper treads on the rear axle will better maintain traction and resistance to hydroplaning - the circumstance that occurs when the tire's tread cannot process enough water to maintain effective contact with the road, causing the vehicle to lose traction. The reason the back axle is preferred relates to what happens when a vehicle starts to hydroplane. If new tires are mounted to the front axle versus the rear, the rear tires will lose traction in wet or slippery conditions before the front. This is dangerous, as the vehicle will tend to oversteer and spin out, potentially causing loss of control. If the front tires begin to hydroplane, the vehicle naturally wants to continue moving forward, which is called understeer. Understeer is much easier to navigate, as releasing the gas pedal will slow the vehicle, helping the driver maintain better control.

[street]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry1 From TireRack.com:

That is the rotation/replacement method I do. A replacement rotation program that might not fit all driver's approval.

[Jerry1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by street That is the rotation/replacement method I do. A replacement rotation program that might not fit all driver's approval.

I added it because it explained the “why”. If someone wants to do otherwise, oh well. Personally, I rotate and replace all four tires unless I was to get an unrepairable flat.

[Music Lover]

I have a floor jack and an electric impact wrench so rotating tires is easy to do myself. Plus I have dedicated winter tires on their own rims so all I do is mark them when swapping for the season and rotate them when installing them the next year.

[Montecfo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Music Lover I have a floor jack and an electric impact wrench so rotating tires is easy to do myself. Plus I have dedicated winter tires on their own rims so all I do is mark them when swapping for the season and rotate them when installing them the next year.

Those are nice to have!

[Music Lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montecfo Those are nice to have!

I consider it money well spent. I can swap tires in 20 - 25 minutes, that's faster than driving somewhere and waiting for someone else to do it.

[Telly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Car-Guy And for those reading this thread that don't know, if you ever see the wear bar (some call them breaker strips) showing up even with the remaining tread on your tire(s) "at any point", the tires(s) are already past needing to be replaced. I know some folks that will run their tires to the wear bars... Not me.

Yeah, by the time the wear bars appear at only 2/32" of tread depth left, hydroplane resistance is pretty low.

Speaking of hydroplaning, when we moved to TX many years ago in a small group of corporate relocatees, we were all amazed(shocked!) how fast people around here drove through b-i-g puddles, even of unknown depth! Big rooster tails behind, like power boat competitions. Water would also splash in great quantity into the oncoming lane, a tidal wave hitting your windshield and car with a thump, blocking out all vision till the wipers could clear it/drained off! We often compared notes, found people bragging about how much water they ran through fast, and hydroplaning, like it was an act of courage.

There were some underpasses that tended to flood in heavy rains, and some of the TV stations would set up a camera after the rain had stopped. And would watch car after car run into the water, even though they could see cars stalled out in the water ahead. Some with only the top 6 inches or so showing! Remember one camera crew that filmed a Chevy Impala zoom right into 4 foot deep water under a bridge. The car stopped quickly, nose down, floating, then settled down onto the pavement beneath, level. Two adults crawled out the windows onto the roof. The driver being very careful not to spill her big slurpee cup!

The camera crew had finally been shocked beyond silence, and yelled over to them. In an incredulous voice "Why didn't you stop? How could you miss all the cars flooded out? And the car that went in about 15 seconds before you " The two people just shrugged their shoulders, held on to the slurpee cup to keep it upright, and wanted the camera crew to come get them so they wouldn't have to get down into the water. Uh-uh, no!

[travelover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telly Yeah, by the time the wear bars appear at only 2/32" of tread depth left, hydroplane resistance is pretty low.............

And the hydroplaning resistance at that wear level can vary quite a bit between tire models. Consumer Reports has started testing tires that have been worn down to be able to quantity wet performance when tires are worn as well as when new.

[JoeWras]

Don't be cheap on tires. Don't push the tread depth. Your life depends on a few square inches of contact space.

Be cheap on car washes. Blow them off. Don't vacuum. Don't fix the broken nav system. Blower doesn't work on high? Forget it.

But for the love of everything, don't blow off tire replacement.

[Slater]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack I rotate tires every other oil change, instead of every time. Assuming tires will last 30-50K, there’s no need to do it every 5,000 miles. Save 50% and do it every 10,000 miles…exact same effect. BTW, tread is only important for driving in the rain, on dry pavement it doesn’t matter much. If you don’t believe it, look at what all on track race cars run when it’s dry, and wet.

That makes zero sense! those tires with zero tread have a rubber composition that is SUPER sticky, higher speed rating, etc...
They wear out super fast but glue the car to the ground, unlike a commuter car tire...
Been an auto tech for 35+ years, I rotate every 5k on my personal vehicles, & also recommend doing so to everyone...
To each their own I guess.
more times than not if you dont rotate at all like the ops buddy suggested, eventually inside edge of front tires will be worn down to the cords & rest of the tire will still have tread, & thats with it properly being aligned, have seen it many times in my career as a wrench...

[Ian S]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slater more times than not if you dont rotate at all like the ops buddy suggested, eventually inside edge of front tires will be worn down to the cords & rest of the tire will still have tread, & thats with it properly being aligned, have seen it many times in my career as a wrench...

That's not been my experience with my staggered fitment sports coupe where the tires simply can't be rotated. I've replaced the tires twice (four at a time) and have not seen the type of wear pattern you claim on the front (or rear) tires. The OEM Bridgestones were high performance summer tires; they were replaced with a high performance all-season set. The latter set was replaced because one tire suffered an irreparable puncture and the tires were six years old and worn down to 5/32nds tread depth. Better to go for an entire new set for peace of mind. I'm not going to skimp on tires.

[Slater]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian S That's not been my experience with my staggered fitment sports coupe where the tires simply can't be rotated. I've replaced the tires twice (four at a time) and have not seen the type of wear pattern you claim on the front (or rear) tires. The OEM Bridgestones were high performance summer tires; they were replaced with a high performance all-season set. The latter set was replaced because one tire suffered an irreparable puncture and the tires were six years old and worn down to 5/32nds tread depth. Better to go for an entire new set for peace of mind. I'm not going to skimp on tires.

I agree but think most sports cars have a different suspension configuration & alignment specs / setting to compensate for this..
stiffer more accurate suspension / less up & down swing changes keeps things more in its optimum happy place...
Vs
the everyday grocery getter / truck that is suppose to do it all
Also how many people have smashed into a side of a curb, or hit a huge pothole numerous times between alignments....
You think you alignment is good, still drives straight, etc...
5k rotates will help with more even tire wear, less outside tire feathering / cupping, overall less inside tire wear....

[zaqxsw]

I spent 35 years making, or indirectly making, tires. Over a half a century driving on them.

How you handle a new set of tires dictates a lot. If you're going to buy a new set of tires, always get a good alignment done by a reputable outfit before or at the same time. You then want to rotate them every oil change (5k miles or less) by crossing over the idling tires to the drive axle. The previous drive tires move straight back/forward to the idling axle.

For front wheel drive: LR to RF / RR to LF. RF went to RR and LF went to LR. Do this until you have had the new tires on all four positions (initial installation + 3 rotations). I've never had a rotation where they did not re-balance the tires going to the front axle.

After that every 7-10k.

[Music Lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zaqxsw For front wheel drive: LR to RF / RR to LF. RF went to RR and LF went to LR. Do this until you have had the new tires on all four positions (initial installation + 3 rotations).

You can only do that with non-directional tires.

[Car-Guy]

^^^^^

Doesn't work so well with my new car either... Rear tires are wider than the front. (By choice) I guess I could but it would look funny and defeat the purpose of the wider tires in the rear.

[zaqxsw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Music Lover You can only do that with non-directional tires.

Yep, you are correct. I've never had them on any vehicle.

I take that back; I did years ago on a van. The irregular tire wear drove me crazy with the noise and once it starts there is no fix. Luckily, I got free (test) tires back when I was working...

[JoeWras]

For as long as I've been looking at owner's manuals, there's a published preferred pattern. One size doesn't fit all, especially in today's world of differing sizes and directional tires.

My tires are all the same, but the fronts have a different pressure than the rears. I'm always pleased to see Discount Tire manage to get this right after a rotation. Well at least at my store they do.

[Slater]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWras For as long as I've been looking at owner's manuals, there's a published preferred pattern. One size doesn't fit all, especially in today's world of differing sizes and directional tires. My tires are all the same, but the fronts have a different pressure than the rears. I'm always pleased to see Discount Tire manage to get this right after a rotation. Well at least at my store they do.

& free rotates so not sure where the savings are trying to skimp on rotates...