tough love -- college decisions

[Luck_Club]

Quote:

Originally Posted by omni550 Luck Club, At this year-end time of reflection, I was just thinking over various posts on this forum, and this thread on your son's education popped into my head. Any update on how he's doing in Ireland? omni

So my son has been home for the holidays, and over hearing his conversations with some family and friends, he has found some enjoyment in Ireland. With parental units, he hates it!

The good:
He is handling the responsibility of independent living well.
He is going out with house mates one or two nights a week. (social development)
He is mindful of the costs of going out with house mates. (frugal genes)
He worked through a very difficult process to get his Visa stamp. (overcoming obstacles)
He appreciates not having to live in a dorm room.
He has done well in his classes.

The bad:
He is still only doing the minimum required work.
He hasn't engaged in any school extra curricular activities.
Most of the students go home on the weekends.
He hasn't taken advantage of being there by traveling about.
He spends most of his free time in his apartment.
He hasn't yet developed any strong friendships.
He is determined to return home after the year and go to State U, and didn't even apply as a transfer any place else.

All and all we are glad to have been able to give him the year to mature, and feel he will be much better prepared to handle State U next fall. Little disappointed he isn't fully taking advantage of the opportunity. His shyness and or social anxiety is holding him back. Unfortunately there isn't anything I can do to help him with that issue.

Thanks for asking.

[ivinsfan]

Well what do know sending him overseas alone didn't help him fix his shyness and social anxiety. I hope he gets through the rest of the school year OK and can handle the isolation he appears to be living in. It appears he is just putting in his time waiting until he can return to the States.

In fact I suspect your list of the bad would have been the same or maybe a bit better if you had let him choose him own path. Luck Club...reread that last post of yours and think hard about it. Just because he has found some enjoyment in Ireland doesn't meant he doesn't hate the situation you forced him into. Apparently you were hoping he would go overseas and turned into a fully fledged well integrated student. You admit he has shyness and social anxiety and thought you could what, force him out of
it?

The bottom line is even though you forced a path on him and he took the path, you still can reel off a list of things that are "bad". But I guess you still think you did the right thing and are trying to "make" him mature at what you consider the proper pace.

Good Luck to your son as he goes forward and maybe when he gets back home you could consider putting away that yardstick you are carrying around.

[brett]

I really think that at some point you have to cut the apron strings.

[pacergal]

Thank you for the update. Both the "good and bad" as you state could have happened at State U and may still when he goes there next year.
His "shyness and or social anxiety" may just be his own introvert personality, or he may benefit from some therapy help if needed.
He needs to be able to make his own decisions and live with the benefits/consequences. This is what we do as parents--allow our kids to grow up and be there to help pick them up when they fall.
Good luck to you and your son and my hope is that you embrace and encourage his desire to attend State U. Who knows, with your support and encouragement, he may just soar on his own.

[Luck_Club]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan Well what do know sending him overseas alone didn't help him fix his shyness and social anxiety. I hope he gets through the rest of the school year OK and can handle the isolation he appears to be living in. It appears he is just putting in his time waiting until he can return to the States. In fact I suspect your list of the bad would have been the same or maybe a bit better if you had let him choose him own path. Luck Club...reread that last post of yours and think hard about it. Just because he has found some enjoyment in Ireland doesn't meant he doesn't hate the situation you forced him into. Apparently you were hoping he would go overseas and turned into a fully fledged well integrated student. You admit he has shyness and social anxiety and thought you could what, force him out of it? The bottom line is even though you forced a path on him and he took the path, you still can reel off a list of things that are "bad". But I guess you still think you did the right thing and are trying to "make" him mature at what you consider the proper pace. Good Luck to your son as he goes forward and maybe when he gets back home you could consider putting away that yardstick you are carrying around.

First the shyness has improved, he is going out socially, which is more than he did all during high school.

Second,we were giving him time to mature, which we have seen much improvement already and the year isn't even up yet. Some of his other friends took an additional year of prep school, so it isn't unheard of to have a gap year. Obviously my choice in what I was willing to fund for that gap year doesn't meet with your approval. Is it jealousy or did your parents send you off to military academy or something?

Bottom line is we are footing the bills, and we gave him the choice of community college, work or Ireland. I think giving him an extra year to mature was generous, and in his best interest.

I had zero assistance in figuring out and funding my education because my parents weren't so generous with me, despite having means to do so. I can tell you it was a tough road and really robbed me of my young adulthood.

[Bamaman]

We were in Ireland in May. Loved the people, and it was very beautiful. Satellite television has destroyed the pubs outside of the big cities as everyone stays home now. We found the place a little quiet for our tastes. They like to watch the sheep grow there.

[oscar1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem Other ideas: Be prepared to pull the plug after a year, or even after a semester, and let him know your expectations up front (course load, grades, a concrete plan leading to a degree in a set time, etc). Grade inflation is rampant, and it is no great achievement for a student to achieve a 3.0. At some colleges, over 50% of the grades given are in the "A" range. Introversion: I wouldn't mix that into this whole issue, and would avoid trying to force him into social interactions he doesn't want to have.

Here’s the good news: They ALWAYS turn out ok in time. You’ll end up with a daughter-in-law, Grandkids, etc. Most kids have no idea what they want to do but all of them eventually figure it out. And they rarely end up in the field they started their studies in. Your job is to try and nudge them ina direction but don’t get upset when they do something different because it always works out. The more challenging news is you are going to lose a lot of sleep in the mean time and you need to know when to keep your yapper shut and when to put your foot down. Simply explain cause and effect. Parents willing to help but there has to be a plan with results. You want to go to college at the party school, great. Parents we will pay this much for grades that lead to a degree and productive work upon graduation. If the grades don’t come, we will talk. It sounds like you can afford any option but if you have doubts about the kid performing, MAKE sure the kid has skin the game. Some people insist on 1/3 parents, 1/3 kid, 1/3 student loans (you can quietly pay those off upon graduation AFTER he proves he did something productive). I don’t like the overseas idea. Yes, it’s good experience but the current track record does not support you paying for him to party in Europe.

I could write a novel on our daughter. Most things above I failed to implement. You should strongly consider the mid-tier college and the community college route (again, have him prove he can be a winner at a cost per credit at this level before you and he take on the risk of performing at a much higher cost per credit). My daughter was top 10% of her class so I thought I had little risk thinking her track record would continue. So, we let her go to Rochchester Institute of Technology in NY at a cost of $50k a year. The only thing she learned there was that it was cold, she did not like the East Coast culture, did not like the Animation program she was accepted to, and she learned a wide variety of four-letter words we never heard her speak before. Yeah, she learned how to party too. Luckily, she wanted out so she transferred to a top state school and graduated in 4 years. She’s a 5th grade math teacher today. I lost a LOT of sleep over this one but it always works out! And they rarely follow a plan that resembles anything their parents imagined! Make sure they have skin in the game!

[Bigdawg]

Just read the update. As I write this my DD is sitting in front of me. She is in grad school at Trinity in Dublin. Home for the winter break. She spent a gap year between under grad and grad school on an internship in Melbourne Australia. Her opinion: Most American kids have no business doing a gap year overseas after highschool. American kids do not travel as much as foreign students. My friends from Ireland, England, France and Australia all speak mutiple languages and traveled extensively before they were 18. Most Americans teenagers that I know don't even have passports. I referee volleyball and umpire baseball so I have tons of contact with high school kids and their parents. Give your kid some rope. Personally I think the military would be best for your son. Good luck.

[Luck_Club]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscar1 Here’s the good news: They ALWAYS turn out ok in time. You’ll end up with a daughter-in-law, Grandkids, etc. Most kids have no idea what they want to do but all of them eventually figure it out. And they rarely end up in the field they started their studies in. Your job is to try and nudge them ina direction but don’t get upset when they do something different because it always works out. The more challenging news is you are going to lose a lot of sleep in the mean time and you need to know when to keep your yapper shut and when to put your foot down. Simply explain cause and effect. Parents willing to help but there has to be a plan with results. You want to go to college at the party school, great. Parents we will pay this much for grades that lead to a degree and productive work upon graduation. If the grades don’t come, we will talk. It sounds like you can afford any option but if you have doubts about the kid performing, MAKE sure the kid has skin the game. Some people insist on 1/3 parents, 1/3 kid, 1/3 student loans (you can quietly pay those off upon graduation AFTER he proves he did something productive). I don’t like the overseas idea. Yes, it’s good experience but the current track record does not support you paying for him to party in Europe. I could write a novel on our daughter. Most things above I failed to implement. You should strongly consider the mid-tier college and the community college route (again, have him prove he can be a winner at a cost per credit at this level before you and he take on the risk of performing at a much higher cost per credit). My daughter was top 10% of her class so I thought I had little risk thinking her track record would continue. So, we let her go to Rochchester Institute of Technology in NY at a cost of $50k a year. The only thing she learned there was that it was cold, she did not like the East Coast culture, did not like the Animation program she was accepted to, and she learned a wide variety of four-letter words we never heard her speak before. Yeah, she learned how to party too. Luckily, she wanted out so she transferred to a top state school and graduated in 4 years. She’s a 5th grade math teacher today. I lost a LOT of sleep over this one but it always works out! And they rarely follow a plan that resembles anything their parents imagined! Make sure they have skin in the game!

Thanks for the words of support. It is a relief to hear they turn out OK in the end. DW & I are certainly having sleepless nights over both kids for different reasons.

We are using the bold approach with daughter. The deal with son is we dictate 2018-2019. He chooses and faces the consequence of his choice in 2019-2020. This gave him the additional year of maturity DW & I both thought he needed.

The European/International option is certainly less costly than most US options in the North East. Including our state school.

[omni550]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luck_Club So my son has been home for the holidays, and over hearing his conversations with some family and friends, he has found some enjoyment in Ireland. With parental units, he hates it! The good: He is handling the responsibility of independent living well. He is going out with house mates one or two nights a week. (social development) He is mindful of the costs of going out with house mates. (frugal genes) He worked through a very difficult process to get his Visa stamp. (overcoming obstacles) He appreciates not having to live in a dorm room. He has done well in his classes. The bad: He is still only doing the minimum required work. He hasn't engaged in any school extra curricular activities. Most of the students go home on the weekends. He hasn't taken advantage of being there by traveling about. He spends most of his free time in his apartment. He hasn't yet developed any strong friendships. He is determined to return home after the year and go to State U, and didn't even apply as a transfer any place else. All and all we are glad to have been able to give him the year to mature, and feel he will be much better prepared to handle State U next fall. Little disappointed he isn't fully taking advantage of the opportunity. His shyness and or social anxiety is holding him back. Unfortunately there isn't anything I can do to help him with that issue. Thanks for asking.

Luck Club,

Thanks for the update.

Nice to hear that your son is surviving OK. He may need a little more time to mature, as we all did so, at different ages.

I'm guessing he's about mid-way in his gap year, so a lot can yet happen.

Would love to get another update when he returns in the spring/summer.

omni

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luck_Club First the shyness has improved, he is going out socially, which is more than he did all during high school. Second,we were giving him time to mature, which we have seen much improvement already and the year isn't even up yet. Some of his other friends took an additional year of prep school, so it isn't unheard of to have a gap year. Obviously my choice in what I was willing to fund for that gap year doesn't meet with your approval. Is it jealousy or did your parents send you off to military academy or something? Bottom line is we are footing the bills, and we gave him the choice of community college, work or Ireland. I think giving him an extra year to mature was generous, and in his best interest. I had zero assistance in figuring out and funding my education because my parents weren't so generous with me, despite having means to do so. I can tell you it was a tough road and really robbed me of my young adulthood.

There a lot of stuff mixed into your reply to my comment. Jealous of what ,the fact you want to spend money on your kid, off to military academy no in fact I am not the one trying to get your kid to march to the beat of a different drummer.


Does your intense attention to your boy somehow make up for the tough road you had in school. Oddly I don't remember many people saying that funding their education robbed them of their young adulthood. Many would say it was the making of them. Anyway, you aren't your boy and I'm not you...I hope he comes home from Ireland feeling good about himself and focused on the way forward.

But I'm not imaging that you rattled off the things he isn't doing as you expected/hoped for. In fact your list of negatives is longer then your list of positives and why are you still bothered that he has held onto his plan to go to the State school?..

[daylatedollarshort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscar1 Here’s the good news: They ALWAYS turn out ok in time.

You must not watch Dr. Phil.

[Music Lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luck_Club The bad: He hasn't taken advantage of being there by traveling about.

Some people like travel and some don't. People with no interest in travel are not doing something wrong.

[Teacher Terry]

Yes and most people don’t like traveling alone. He is so young so I understand his reluctance.

[Luck_Club]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan There a lot of stuff mixed into your reply to my comment. Jealous of what ,the fact you want to spend money on your kid, off to military academy no in fact I am not the one trying to get your kid to march to the beat of a different drummer. Does your intense attention to your boy somehow make up for the tough road you had in school. Oddly I don't remember many people saying that funding their education robbed them of their young adulthood. Many would say it was the making of them. Anyway, you aren't your boy and I'm not you...I hope he comes home from Ireland feeling good about himself and focused on the way forward. But I'm not imaging that you rattled off the things he isn't doing as you expected/hoped for. In fact your list of negatives is longer then your list of positives and why are you still bothered that he has held onto his plan to go to the State school?..

I was trying to understand your general hostility to our decision to make the one option over the other two more attractive. The decision, to do this was based on our knowledge of our sons needs. The theme of which hasn't changed, and can be boiled down to time to mature. Don't get me wrong I appreciate the push back, and questioning. It makes me tread carefully in my decision making process. Even if it just further cements my original gut instinct.

You are correct, I'm not a big fan of our State U. It is not a very good one. I think something like bottom 10-25% of the nation type of not good. Unless your talking party school then it has hit the top 10 over the years.

But the deal was he does the year in Ireland and the other choices and consequences were up to him. That is what you were arguing to have me do wasn't it? It is just 1 year latter, when he has some more maturity under his belt.

All and all I was trying to update people who were interested. Overall, my wife and I along with close family & friends have seen that this has been good for him. Despite my negatives being longer than my positives.

I will continue to update this thread as this plays out, for those that are facing similar struggles with there own children.

[Luck_Club]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry Yes and most people don’t like traveling alone. He is so young so I understand his reluctance.

Agreed. Accept he will often do things alone like skiing or golfing.

Music lover--You might be right he may just have no interest in seeing and experiencing the places around him.

To me it is just a waste of a good opportunity, but I really enjoy seeing new places and having new experiences.

[Luck_Club]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigdawg Just read the update. As I write this my DD is sitting in front of me. She is in grad school at Trinity in Dublin. Home for the winter break. She spent a gap year between under grad and grad school on an internship in Melbourne Australia. Her opinion: Most American kids have no business doing a gap year overseas after highschool. American kids do not travel as much as foreign students. My friends from Ireland, England, France and Australia all speak mutiple languages and traveled extensively before they were 18. Most Americans teenagers that I know don't even have passports. I referee volleyball and umpire baseball so I have tons of contact with high school kids and their parents. Give your kid some rope. Personally I think the military would be best for your son. Good luck.

I agree military would be a good fit for him. I think he would thrive, because he does exactly as he's told, and doesn't want to rock the boat. However, that isn't getting any support from DW.

[Music Lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luck_Club Music lover--You might be right he may just have no interest in seeing and experiencing the places around him. To me it is just a waste of a good opportunity, but I really enjoy seeing new places and having new experiences.

Many people think that travel is overrated. I've lost track of how many people automatically assumed that I'd embrace travelling once I retired, and when they find out that I'm not they can't understand why.

I don't get it...to me, travel is just another hobby like playing music or sports. I like playing music but have little interest in most sports or visiting other countries.

[target2019]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luck_Club Thanks for the words of support. It is a relief to hear they turn out OK in the end. DW & I are certainly having sleepless nights over both kids for different reasons. We are using the bold approach with daughter. The deal with son is we dictate 2018-2019. He chooses and faces the consequence of his choice in 2019-2020. This gave him the additional year of maturity DW & I both thought he needed. The European/International option is certainly less costly than most US options in the North East. Including our state school.

It's an interesting approach you've taken. Thanks for sharing the details.

[daylatedollarshort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Music Lover Many people think that travel is overrated. I've lost track of how many people automatically assumed that I'd embrace travelling once I retired, and when they find out that I'm not they can't understand why. I don't get it...to me, travel is just another hobby like playing music or sports. I like playing music but have little interest in most sports or visiting other countries.

+1. I don't play music but like going to concerts and the theater more than travel. Plus we have a dog we love and don't like to leave for too long.