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Old 04-01-2021, 07:59 PM   #41
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OK, somebody has to strongly state this but I'm calling BS on this work from home stuff. Endless I'll contact my supervisor and we'll get back to you on top of the IRS being on virtual shutdown. When I reach the point that my job can be done for a fraction of the cost at a foreign location my reason to exist ceases. Harsh but true. And I hope my DK's wake up to this before it's to late.
This is a good point I hadn't really though about. Hmmm...

I'll need to remind DS that if his mechanical engineering job can be done from home, it can be done from India too.
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Old 04-02-2021, 10:17 AM   #42
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My megacorp issues vague threats reminding us we will go back but no dates. I think they don't want to give us too much notice esp in IT because they know people will look for other WFH jobs. I do not talk to people in my location - mostly people in other states. We are quite swamped so there is no time for chat. I am trying to meet the min age requirement to qualify for health ins in retirement or I'd be one leaving when they dragged us back. . .
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Old 04-02-2021, 10:52 AM   #43
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This is a good point I hadn't really though about. Hmmm...

I'll need to remind DS that if his mechanical engineering job can be done from home, it can be done from India too.
That is true if the requisite skills can be found in the foreign country and if the communications and cultural barriers can be overcome. In my former occupation, we found that certain tasks could be delegated to minimally skilled people - that work could be offshored but not without at least some difficulty. The higher level work could not be easily contracted out, and this was in a case where much of my team was working remotely, but was all US based.

My advice to people worried about job flow overseas is simple : If the work looks like something that a high school student could do, then it will be done offshore.
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Old 04-06-2021, 03:33 PM   #44
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One big problem I see with working from home is for new employees. In traditional office setting the new employee has their coworkers to learn from and ask them questions while the new employee is learning the job and the company. No way that can happen if a new employee is at home. That resource is gone. It may be fine for existing employees to work from home that already know the job. But how are new employees going to get trained except for the in-person office?
We have onboarded 2 people completely remotely during the pandemic. We talk on the phone multiple times a day, have written down our processes (good) and share our screens in Microsoft Teams a lot. We also have Webex and Teams meetings. It is hard work, but doable.
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Old 04-06-2021, 03:55 PM   #45
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My employer went through each position and identified key positions that must come into the office one day a week. To the others, not only are they 100% remote, but they are now allowed to move anywhere in the US as long as they adhere to the 0900-1500 east coast for 6 of their hours. Of the three buildings previously used, they have divested themselves of two already and are planning to only keep 1-2 floors of the last.

In my opinion, the past year has been illuminating. If you've done your job remotely and have been performing, the return to the office makes no sense. I agree it does make some aspects easier, but at what cost? For me, I'm going in one day a week for the next three years then am transitioning to 100% telework until my retirement.
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Old 04-06-2021, 04:08 PM   #46
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Getting pressure and in the news folks have or are transitioning back to office work. Large setting cubicle office work...not single isolated offices.

What say you? Me, I want to stay away from the commute and office. Period.
Hope work does not ask me back for a while.

I'm getting my first vaccine shot tomorrow and, as exciting as that is, it is also one more reason to be closer to returning to the office
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Old 04-06-2021, 04:57 PM   #47
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I've been 100% WFH since 2013 and been managing a team located all across the country since about 2008. Now with our entire office of 200+ people at home for over a year we just use more tech to get our jobs done. Teams meetings teams calls, virtual rooms, MIRO boards to collaborate. We haven't missed a beat. We onboard new employees almost every month with no issues.

Right before COVID most of the staff only worked in one of two office locations two days a week max but many were remote hires scattered all across the country. It's true not all jobs can be done at home but for the jobs that can be done from home why not? It takes technical tools and the right attitude from management (not managers who believe people are only productive if they can see them).

In fact I'd argue we are working more hours from home than in the office with less time wasted with socializing, long lunches, etc. And really the folks that just wandered around the office socializing back when we were all face to face are probably about as productive at home now as they were in the office but those are issues that should be addressed no matter where they are assigned to work.
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Old 04-06-2021, 05:35 PM   #48
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I work for a large public utility with both union and non-union staff. We office folks have been home for the past year, but union staff have been in the plants all along. Huge political pressure to bring everyone back. The process has already started for single occupancy office-dwellers, and we cubicle rats will be dragged back around June 1. CEO has said absolutely no telework or hybrid models going forward. I have zero interest in the commute, work clothes, office politics and many wasted hours. I've got a call in to my financial planner to see whether never returning is even remotely possible.. here's hoping!
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Old 04-06-2021, 05:50 PM   #49
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That is true if the requisite skills can be found in the foreign country and if the communications and cultural barriers can be overcome. In my former occupation, we found that certain tasks could be delegated to minimally skilled people - that work could be offshored but not without at least some difficulty. The higher level work could not be easily contracted out, and this was in a case where much of my team was working remotely, but was all US based.

My advice to people worried about job flow overseas is simple : If the work looks like something that a high school student could do, then it will be done offshore.
I have personally seen thousand upon thousands of jobs off-shored, near-shored, and other hybrid operations. These jobs were not "high school student" but rather good salary IT jobs (i.e. learn to code).

Any remote job is at danger of having done in a place with lower labor costs. Those who think that it only applies to low level jobs are fooling themselves - it started there but has consistently been moving up the skills chain.

I would not be surprised to see this include currently very high paid positions (e.g. some doctors) - anything for which latency (due to speed of light limitations) isn't a limiting factor.

If I were 20 knowing what I know now and what I see coming, I would personally only look for skills that require on-site or local presence. (ETA: Fixed grammar. )

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Old 04-06-2021, 08:56 PM   #50
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I have personally seen thousand upon thousands of jobs off-shored, near-shored, and other hybrid operations. These jobs were not "high school student" but rather good salary IT jobs (i.e. learn to code).

Any remote job is at danger of having done in a place with lower labor costs. Those who think that it only applies to low level jobs are fooling themselves - it started there but has consistently been moving up the skills chain.

I would not be surprised to see this include currently very high paid positions (e.g. some doctors) - anything for which latency (due to speed of light limitations) isn't a limiting factor.

If I were 20 knowing what I know now and what I see coming, I would personally only look for skills that require on-site or local presence. (ETA: Fixed grammar. )

Signed,
Computer Science Professor
Yea, I didn't respond to DAK2018's comment about "high school student", but it is way way off the mark. The "high school student" jobs are the ones that are not off-shoreable, they face-to-face and hands-on service jobs.

Jobs that analyze, manage, or handle data are easily off-shoreable. Engineering design, accounting and finance, a lot of science jobs, and a lot of medical data/science jobs are vulnerable.

I worked for a very large global megacorp and we opened large engineering offices in India many years ago. In the 20th century this work was done in the USA.
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Old 04-07-2021, 04:14 AM   #51
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Getting pressure and in the news folks have or are transitioning back to office work. Large setting cubicle office work...not single isolated offices.

What say you? Me, I want to stay away from the commute and office. Period.
I said goodbye to that experience over a year ago at retirement. I've had fleeting thoughts about what it would be like to return to work after WFH for so long. I would find other employment or contract work while resisting the Borg, and saying I would not feel safe.

I do get daily emails about WFH opportunities. My field is suited for that, being information driven. Even jobs requiring additional security on the PC can now be done well given hi-speed access.

We've been driving to the city twice a month, and using my old commute route. Way less traffic, but we now see the situation getting worse from just limited numbers of people returning to the office. On most days it is a meaningless migration of the masses.

It hasn't been difficult to adjust to one or two sets of comfortable sweats in a typical week.
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Old 04-07-2021, 05:48 AM   #52
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We have onboarded 2 people completely remotely during the pandemic. We talk on the phone multiple times a day, have written down our processes (good) and share our screens in Microsoft Teams a lot. We also have Webex and Teams meetings. It is hard work, but doable.

DH just started a new job after "retiring" a year ago from his 32 yr career with MegaCorp. All remote, at least until Sept. - maybe later, who knows? He's not a big fan of working from home but it seems to be the new norm.
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Old 04-07-2021, 07:44 AM   #53
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After over 25 years at an academic medical institution, I am starting a new position next week at a health care IT non-profit that has recently put its building up for sale. We are 100% remote. I know the team I will work with well, so onboarding will be pretty easy. Now I will have the freedom to live pretty much anywhere in the US (at least) where I can get reliable internet. And when Elon Musk gets Starlink fully operational, that could include working from an RV in places of my choosing. I love it!
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Old 04-07-2021, 08:44 AM   #54
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One big problem I see with working from home is for new employees. In traditional office setting the new employee has their coworkers to learn from and ask them questions while the new employee is learning the job and the company.
My daughter is an employee in this position right now. It seems possible, but has been marginally successful in her case.

The difficulty seems more in understanding personal relationships within the office and getting feedback, rather than the actual mechanics of the job.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:48 AM   #55
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Having met my wife at work way back when, and having met and made friends with dozens of on site co-workers over the years, I pity the young bunch in today's workforce, starting jobs and working them from home. This is isolating and eliminates a huge part of ones social life, with few face to face opportunities otherwise. Not for me back in my mid 70s early career years. It would seem horrible to me!
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:13 PM   #56
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Having met my wife at work way back when, and having met and made friends with dozens of on site co-workers over the years, I pity the young bunch in today's workforce, starting jobs and working them from home. This is isolating and eliminates a huge part of ones social life, with few face to face opportunities otherwise. Not for me back in my mid 70s early career years. It would seem horrible to me!
You are onto something. I dont socialize much now with my own kids but did a bit back in my youth
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Old 04-08-2021, 03:43 PM   #57
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I think the push to go back to the office will convince a lot of OMY types to call it a day. Until you don't have to deal with all the issues already cited - work clothes, commuting, additional costs, inability to do a short errand mid-day, etc. - you don't realize how much more pleasant WFH is. People in the late innings of their career don't need to face-to-face as they already know everyone, they have relationships already established in the workplace. I do understand how much more difficult it would be for younger workers.
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Old 04-08-2021, 03:48 PM   #58
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I think the push to go back to the office will convince a lot of OMY types to call it a day. Until you don't have to deal with all the issues already cited - work clothes, commuting, additional costs, inability to do a short errand mid-day, etc. - you don't realize how much more pleasant WFH is. People in the late innings of their career don't need to face-to-face as they already know everyone, they have relationships already established in the workplace. I do understand how much more difficult it would be for younger workers.
Absolutely. With enough FU money those folks will most always take that option.

DW wishes I could go in once a week. Now that I am vaxed I can swing over to DF I have a satellite office as we do a lot of business together. Will be interesting in a year to see how it all pans out.
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Old 04-08-2021, 06:01 PM   #59
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In the mid 90's I had a work from home job (yes, I was a trail blazer). I made it a point to make the (almost 2 hour) trek once a week. I would schedule meetings for that day, made sure I caught up with various parts of the organization, and go to lunch with my ex-office mates.

Worked great, but that is partially because of my objective to make it work. I worked long hours at home and made sure I was available for whatever came up during normal working hours.
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