University of Florida student tasered at John Kerry Talk....

[maddythebeagle]

YouTube - EDITED John Kerry Speech UF Student Andrew Meyer Tasered

I dont recall this being posted... Yeah, he was disruptive, but good for him with these suits never really answering a question...

[Bigritchie]

Pretty sad when a student at a question and answer event, mentions skull and bones, and gets jumped by police and tasered. If that doesn't scare Americans and start waking them up nothing will.

[justin]

"Don't tazer me, bro!!!!!!"

"Aahahhhhh, ahhahhaha, ahhhhhhhhhhh"

[lets-retire]

The kid was asked to sit after rambling for several minutes, but he refused. Just like at a Republican gathering when someone is disorderly they are asked to remove themselves from the auditorium. In this case the student did not wish to leave and resisted. It developed into an active resistance and a battery on a law enforcement officer (a felony in Florida). The kid continued to resist and in another video I watched the officers were having difficulties restraining him. The kid should have been tased. The officers acted appropriately.

[genghis]

You'd think in our wonderful "free" society, we'd be a little more tolerant of a concerned citizen asking a relevant question. Not everybody is as "normal" as you and I....can't we show enough tolerance as a society to let an opinion be voiced?

And by the way - who decides when a question becomes a "ramble" and when it's been long enough? The police? The question wasn't that out of line to merit the treatment he got. The police had no right to move in when they did - he was not being beligerant until he was being forcibly moved from the mic. And tazering when they had 5 or 6 cops to one on this guy? I thought the point of tazering was to subdue dangerous criminals w/o the need for guns - do you REALLY think that level of force was necessary - esp since he was already on the ground?

This video feels like something you'd see in a police state

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by genghis This video feels like something you'd see in a police state

Um, where have you been the last few years?

[lets-retire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by genghis You'd think in our wonderful "free" society, we'd be a little more tolerant of a concerned citizen asking a relevant question. Not everybody is as "normal" as you and I....can't we show enough tolerance as a society to let an opinion be voiced? And by the way - who decides when a question becomes a "ramble" and when it's been long enough? The police? The question wasn't that out of line to merit the treatment he got. The police had no right to move in when they did - he was not being beligerant until he was being forcibly moved from the mic. And tazering when they had 5 or 6 cops to one on this guy? I thought the point of tazering was to subdue dangerous criminals w/o the need for guns - do you REALLY think that level of force was necessary - esp since he was already on the ground? This video feels like something you'd see in a police state

Absolutely ask a question. However when the person starts to "teach" everyone what the issue is instead of asking a question about a book Kerry said he already read it becomes an issue. I can guarantee the officers were not given a lot of leeway in how things were handled (they never are). The Senator was also asking the guy to stop preaching and ask the question, he failed to do this. So a that point, yes it is rambling. I agree the question wasn't out of line. However the persons conduct was out of line for the time and place.

Your thought of when the taser is allowed is a little off. Tasers are used often and in Florida are considered to be about the same level of force as laying hands on somebody. That basically translates to you do what you are told to do by the officer or they can taser you. The person was on the ground. Believe it or not that is a very dangerous position for the officers to be in. The person can still kick. If the person is able to free a hand and have a weapon, that can quickly be brought into the situation. The courts have decided that officer safety comes first. Just because a person decides to become a police officer does not mean they give up their right to be safe. Hands on is always a dangerous time for an officer. As I have explained a person on the ground resisting is not a good place for the officers to be. The situation can easily escalate, so the priority becomes end the situation as soon as possible. Pepper spray would not be a good option, because it has the tendency to effect everyone in the area. ASP batons, are very bad idea in a wrestling match. Gun, really, really, really bad idea. The person is not compiling and is continuing to resist, even with an overwhelming amount of police presence so Taser is an appropriate tool to use.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by genghis This video feels like something you'd see in a police state

And it was.

Ha

[lets-retire]

Here's a longer version of the incident that shows the guy resisting on the ground. As you can see and hear he was told several times place his hands behind his back. He failed that test. The subject was able to get his arms free. That is a very bad and dangerous situation. The fact of the matter is as soon as he pushed off the female officer when it was just her and the male officer that opens all forms of force up to and including lethal force. Battery on a law enforcement officer is considered a violent felony in Florida. Violent felonies bring in lethal force as an option. As stated earlier that would have been a very, very, very bad idea, but it was an option.

YouTube - Student Tasered At Kerry Speech: Longer Version

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[DRiP Guy]

Quote:

Jessup's eyewitness account also strongly suggests that Meyer planned on instigating some fireworks. After all, he handed his camera to Jessup before he stormed the microphone, cutting off another student. That behavior may explain why the police descended on him, why on the YouTube videos the first time you see him he's flanked by police who appear poised to pounce as he asks his question. A story in today's South Florida Sun-Sentinel the strong impression that Meyer is something of a jerk, and that's putting it politely. According to that story: The cameras did not catch Meyer cutting off a student five words into a question, said Kathleen Shea, a junior who attended the forum. "Not only did he jump up out of turn to the microphone, he was being very condescending," she said. That's when students started pulling out their cameras, the student organizers cut off his microphone, and campus police tried to pull him away, Shea said.

The Swamp: Witness defends Kerry response to Taser incident

Quote:

Meyer, a telecommunications junior from Weston, has a Web site that features a self-described "disorganized diatribe" criticizing media coverage of the Iraq war. The book he held at Monday's event was Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast, which reports on voting irregularities in the 2004 presidential contest and calls Kerry the victor. He's also known for posting practical jokes and comedy routines online. Meyer was a columnist for the Independent Florida Alligator, the student newspaper, for at least a semester more than a year ago, but was not given regular space more recently. Josh Goldman, a UF senior who met Meyer two years ago, said his friend is interested in presidential candidate Ron Paul and 9/11 Truth, a movement that questions the mainstream explanation of Sept. 11.

State: Tasering of UF student sparks uproar



His website:
Home | the andrew meyer dot com

A long version of the arrest, however, even this one has two obvious edits. I have learned that regardless of your own bias or position, ALWAYS try to look at the longest, most uninterrupted version of an event you find of interest. Yes, it may be a minute or two of investment, but context, follow-up, mood, sense of danger or chaos (or lack of chaos/danger, i.e. a sense of staging for theatric effect!) etc is often lost in the clips people purposely edit to support a particular point of view...

YouTube - Student Tasered At Kerry Speech: Longer Version

[Bigritchie]

[chinaco]

I found the event disturbing. I have mixed emotions about it. I agree he was a little out of line when the campus cops asked him to stop. But using the taser in that situation seemed a bit heavy handed.

[TromboneAl]

Interesting to see the whole video. NBC news coverage started video at the point at which he was pulled away from the mike, so you couldn't get a feeling for the situation.

I noted that someone first asked him to stop talking and wait for the answer after he'd talked for 32 seconds. The mic was cut, and they grabbed him at 92 seconds.

Yes, he was getting obnoxious, and my take is that the crowd felt he should shut up. But what we have here is someone who was wrestled to the ground and tasered because he exceeded the 90 second time period allotted for a question.

I don't think this is a free speech issue, as they portrayed it on NBC Nightly News. It's just a case of poorly trained campus security stepping in too soon, followed by an escalation with poorly trained Florida cops.

If the campus cops had let him go on, the crowd would have started chanting "Let Kerry answer." If he was still at the mic after 5-10 minutes, then zap him.

Finally, look at technology's influence here. Something happens, and ten students whip out their cameras, and in a few hours the incident is youtubed around the world.

[RunningBum]

Seems like if you're screaming "Don't taser me!" maybe your best chance is to stop struggling with the officers.

The guy was wild enough that he almost got free, and who knows what he was going to do next? You think maybe that's why they zapped him, rather than discussing whether he had blabbed on long enough to deserve a jolt?

[MasterBlaster]

This incident would have been more appropriate with Hilary speaking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWK3ZOmJZk4

[DRiP Guy]

I think we learn the most when we REALLY try to put ourselves in the other person's shoes, even if it's hard. On this one, it's a stretch, 'cause my knee jerk reaction after Miami cops recently getting outgunned, and the UV thing, etc and this guy's track record is to just say "He got what he had comin'."

And I still do feel that he purposely instigated this whole thing, just to cause a scene, knowing it could end just as it did.

All of that said though, Trombone Al got me thinking on this one. If the campus cops were careful, thoughtful, bright folks ,they would indeed have stood and stood and stood. Sure, the crowd might have gotten vocal. Sure, the dude might have gotten a few more words in. Sure they would feel frustration of inaction (or delayed action). But what is five minutes in the scheme of things? No gun or other weapon in evidence, no clear threat to Kerry or others... of course he is rude. Of course he is imposing on others and making a general butt of himself. But if the crowd shouted him down, embarrassed him, made him slink off, the cops standing there smirking, but holding off restraint for some gesture that is more threatening than just some goofy blabber...

That frankly, would have been ideal, and still not any more dangerous for the participants than what they were already exposed to.

It is not my personal inclination to act that way, but you know, perhaps we really ought to learn to expect it (and train for it) from those who are policing us.

[Bigritchie]

What you have just witnessed in this video is an authentic scene of police state brutality. The video clearly shows that:

• Meyer was assaulted by six officers, thrown to the ground and attacked with a violent weapon.

• Meyer volunteered to leave the room if the officers would let him go.

• Meyer did not strike any officer at any time. His hands were always in a defensive position.

• Meyer attempted to flee his assailants (as any rational person would).

• Meyer committed no crime whatsoever. At no point did any law enforcement officer accuse Meyer of committing any crime other than "resisting arrest" (which is not a crime when the arrest is illegal in the first place, see below).

• Meyer was arrested for merely exercising his Free Speech rights.

It is every citizen's duty to resist false arrest

There is no such crime as "resisting arrest." This is a fictitious crime dreamed up by law enforcement to accuse a citizen of a crime when they refuse to surrender to the illegal demands of the police.

U.S. courts have ruled on numerous occasions that resisting a false arrest is not merely a citizen's right, but his duty! In fact, courts have gone so far as to rule that if a law enforcement officer is killed as a result of actions stemming from a citizen's attempts to defend themselves against a false arrest, it is the fault of the officer, not the citizen.

Here's a short collection of relevant court rulings on false arrest and resisting arrest:

"When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified." Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.

"These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence." Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.

"An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery." (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).

In other words, Andrew Meyer would have been justified in using whatever reasonable means necessary to defend his life against his assailants. The gang of six individuals who assaulted Meyer, regardless of what clothing and badges they were wearing, were threatening his safety and his life. They assaulted him with a dangerous and potentially deadly weapon, and they kidnapped him by forcefully removing him from the room against his will.

Was Meyer being annoying to others by taking up air time at the microphone? Perhaps so. But being annoying is not a crime. If it were, John Kerry, President Bush and practically elected official in the country should be arrested. They're all far more annoying than Meyer.

Additional information from the courts:

"Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense." (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

[lets-retire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl I don't think this is a free speech issue, as they portrayed it on NBC Nightly News. It's just a case of poorly trained campus security stepping in too soon, followed by an escalation with poorly trained Florida cops.

Actually that campus police agency (like most state colleges in Florida) has full police powers just like any city or county agency. That particular agency is also nationally accredited. The accreditation requires certain very strict standards are met in all areas including training. The standards are above those required for the officers to maintain their certifications. The national accreditation is the same for all agencies across the country.
Here is a link to the CALEA standards. CALEA is the accreditation board for law enforcement.

LAW ENFORCEMENT ACCREDITATION

[DRiP Guy]

Big richie, I bent as far as I can personally in my prior post.

Yours, OTOH, seems to me very extreme and not supportable at all. I hope you never have personal occasion to test out your theories first hand. When the police tell you you are under arrest, my advice is 100%, no questions asked, COMPLY. Fight them in court later, if you like. Write a letter to the editor. Protest outside the station once you are released. Write a book. Call your local news station. Make a web blog decrying your circumstances of arrest. Vote out the politicos who control the police in that region. Run for office. Call your Congressman. But IMHO, it is a fool who thinks resisting arrest is a wise move under ANY condition.

[lazygood4nothinbum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigritchie It is every citizen's duty to resist false arrest There is no such crime as "resisting arrest." This is a fictitious crime dreamed up by law enforcement to accuse a citizen of a crime when they refuse to surrender to the illegal demands of the police

thanx bigitchie, never heard that before. nice to know some things still make sense.

it is almost hard to remember when police didn't electrocute citizens at whim. it is hard to believe that no one in the audience tried to interrupt this guy from talking. just as it is hard to imagine myself or my friends not coming to this guy's defense had that incident occurred when we attended the u of f.

tazer us in the 70s? there would have been a riot.