Use 3-way outlet in place of 2-way outlet

[target2019]

I have AWG 12 wiring in three separate outlets. Eash is installed as push connections, and I want to replace them. Problem is, there is no slack in the wiring. Therefore I need to use the push connections, and not screw terminals.

I have a 3-way outlet and it has AWG 12 push connections.

Will 3-way outlet function properly as a 2-way?

 

[Ronstar]

I don't know what you mean by a 3-way. If you mean a standard receptacle with ground (see attached) - yes it will work. And you should have a ground wire in the box to attach to the ground screw on the receptacle.

 

[ERD50]

IIRC, code calls for about 6" length on the wires out of the box, so that wiring is not to code. I think the 'fix' is to pigtail in a 6 inch piece with a wire nut.

When you say "three way" and "two way", do you mean grounded, un-grounded? No, you can't connect a grounded outlet to a circuit that has no ground. That is dangerous, as it gives the use the impression they are plugged into a grounded outlet. Can you run a ground wire?

You can replace the old with a GFCI - that provides protection even with no ground.

https://www.thisoldhouse.com/electrical/21015454/replacing-two-prong-receptacles

-ERD50

 

[Jerry1]

Trying to understand. Are you saying you don’t have a ground? So, you have a 3 way outlet, but it will act like a 2 way outlet because you don’t have a ground?

If that’s the case, yes, it will work but it’s certainly not code. I had a similar problem. I had a 3 way outlet and my ground wasn’t working. Electrician said I could put a 2 way outlet in there so that anyone using it would know it’s not a grounded outlet. Thankfully, I found the fault in the ground wire and was able to fix it.

 

[ERD50]

I don't know what you mean by a 3-way. If you mean a standard receptacle with ground (see attached) - yes it will work. And you should have a ground wire in the box to attach to the ground screw on the receptacle.

Caution! To be clear, this *ONLY* works if you have a ground in that box. W/o the ground, it may appear to work, but it is unsafe (don't do it!).

-ERD50

 

[Ronstar]

Caution! To be clear, this *ONLY* works if you have a ground in that box. W/o the ground, it may appear to work, but it is unsafe (don't do it!).

-ERD50

I agree - don't do it if you don't have a ground wire. I should have made that more clear. But I have never run into a situation where there wasn't a ground wire in the box.

 

[ERD50]

Trying to understand. Are you saying you don’t have a ground? So, you have a 3 way outlet, but it will act like a 2 way outlet because you don’t have a ground?

If that’s the case, yes, it will work but it’s certainly not code. ...

It isn't just "not to code", it is DANGEROUS. Don't do it!

Some codes are for very marginal things, or for convenience (like the 6" of free wire, just makes it easier and a bit safer to replace outlets/switches). But this code is important, don;t screw around. Some one could get killed.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

I agree - don't do it if you don't have a ground wire. I should have made that more clear. But I have never run into a situation where there wasn't a ground wire in the box.

If the old outlet is ungrounded (two prong), I would not be surprised if there is no ground available.

OP - how old is this house?

-ERD50

 

[Jerry1]

It isn't just "not to code", it is DANGEROUS. Don't do it!

-ERD50

Agree. Should have been more clear. Like I said, I was about to put in a two way outlet just to make sure. But anal me couldn’t stand that. Took awhile, but I finally isolated where the break in the ground was. In another outlet, the ground was run from, the connection somehow got loose. Fixed that and had ground to the other box.

 

[target2019]

I don't know what you mean by a 3-way. If you mean a standard receptacle with ground (see attached) - yes it will work. And you should have a ground wire in the box to attach to the ground screw on the receptacle.

Thanks, Ron. Apparently there is no such thing as a 3-way outlet (crazy me). If wired in a certain way the outlet functions differently, but the same standard outlet applies.

I do need an outlet that will accept 12AWG on a push connection.

 

[Jerry1]

IIRC, code calls for about 6" length on the wires out of the box, so that wiring is not to code. I think the 'fix' is to pigtail in a 6 inch piece with a wire nut.

I do need an outlet that will accept 12AWG on a push connection.

Add some wire. It’s no big deal as long as you have room in the box for the extra wire nuts.

 

[finnski1]

Thanks, Ron. Apparently there is no such thing as a 3-way outlet (crazy me). If wired in a certain way the outlet functions differently, but the same standard outlet applies.

I do need an outlet that will accept 12AWG on a push connection.

I was about to say I have never heard of a "3 way outlet". 3 way switches , yes very common.

I am also not a fan of stab in connectors but that's just me.

A lot of electricians won't use them.

 

[street]

As far as push in wire connections go they work and nothing wrong with using them. Many don't use them because they heard they aren't any good. We have done 1000's of push in connections and have had no problems after 30 to 40 years of that outlet in service.

If you feel you need to use the screws then wire nut a pig tail on and use the screws. I have seen where screw connections have went bad also.

 

[Jerry1]

As far as push in wire connections go they work and nothing wrong with using them. Many don't use them because they heard they aren't any good. We have done 1000's of push in connections and have had no problems after 30 to 40 years of that outlet in service.

If you feel you need to use the screws then wire nut a pig tail on and use the screws. I have seen where screw connections have went bad also.

Push connectors need to be done correctly to work correctly. I think the problem is the install versus the mechanism.

Personal experience. Living in an apartment early in my marriage (between houses). Woke up one night to the sound of an arc welder. Sparks shooting out of an outlet in our bedroom started the curtains on fire. Wife grabs baby daughter, calls 911 and stands by door just in case. Me, scared as all “F”, gets the fire out and waits for the firemen to come. They check the walls for any hidden heat but find that the wire came loose from the push in connector on the outlet.

Early lesson that things need to be done right and fire is scary stuff.

 

[finnski1]

As far as push in wire connections go they work and nothing wrong with using them. Many don't use them because they heard they aren't any good. We have done 1000's of push in connections and have had no problems after 30 to 40 years of that outlet in service.

If you feel you need to use the screws then wire nut a pig tail on and use the screws. I have seen where screw connections have went bad also.

Maybe so but I think the manufacturers only rate them for 14 ga wire not 12.
I could be wrong about that and haven't verified it though.

 

[street]

Most homes that were wired 20 to 45 years old used push-in connections. Right or wrong, bad or good, most people are living in a home with push-in connections and don't even know it and have had no problems. Any connection can go bad including screw connections, I have seen many that have. My home is 40 years old and all wiring has the push-in connections and haven't had an issue. Maybe I'm lucky but no problems. If there is an issue the breaker should do it's job and detect the fault on open up that circuit.

You can buy them in most areas but you may have to go with specific 20 amp outlets which are designed with quick connect slots on the back for 12 gauge wiring. Standard outlets are rated for 15 amp/14 gauge wiring slots.

 

[Music Lover]

If you feel you need to use the screws then wire nut a pig tail on and use the screws. I have seen where screw connections have went bad also.

Push connectors need to be done correctly to work correctly. I think the problem is the install versus the mechanism.

Both methods are safe if done correctly. Screw connections fail if they are not tight enough or if enough wire isn't under the screw which can happen if wire is bent counter clockwise which could allow it to spread open when tightening the screw.

I've used both methods but prefer the screws because there is more surface area touching the wire and because I ensure that the screws are very tight. I don't really know how much contact there is with the push in connectors or how well built they are. With a screw you can be sure.

If the wire in the box is too short, use pigtails.

 

[finnski1]

Both methods are safe if done correctly. Screw connections fail if they are not tight enough or if enough wire isn't under the screw which can happen if wire is bent counter clockwise which could allow it to spread open when tightening the screw.

I've used both methods but prefer the screws because there is more surface area touching the wire and because I ensure that the screws are very tight. I don't really know how much contact there is with the push in connectors or how well built they are. With a screw you can be sure.

If the wire in the box is too short, use pigtails.

This is my reasoning as well

 

[finnski1]

Most homes that were wired 20 to 45 years old used push-in connections. Right or wrong, bad or good, most people are living in a home with push-in connections and don't even know it and have had no problems. Any connection can go bad including screw connections, I have seen many that have. My home is 40 years old and all wiring has the push-in connections and haven't had an issue. Maybe I'm lucky but no problems. If there is an issue the breaker should do it's job and detect the fault on open up that circuit.

You can buy them in most areas but you may have to go with specific 20 amp outlets which are designed with quick connect slots on the back for 12 gauge wiring. Standard outlets are rated for 15 amp/14 gauge wiring slots.

Yes you are correct. The OP didn't specify what amperage his circuit was so he needs to pay attention to that as well.
You don't want to use 12 ga wire in a 15 amp circuit.

 

[street]

^ true. There are millions of homes/building wired with stab-in connections. These connections are UL Listed and nationally recognized Standards for Safety product.

One of the biggest causes of failures is overload (more amps then required) on the receptacle itself and then the connection/receptacle starts to fatigue/stresses which results in failure.

I would never install a low amp receptacle in any installation. A 20 amp is better then a 15 amp and stab-in connection is built for heavier for more load and continuous load.

I'm not promoting stab-in connections, just want to tell the other side of the story.

 

[OldShooter]

... I've used both methods but prefer the screws because there is more surface area touching the wire and because I ensure that the screws are very tight. I don't really know how much contact there is with the push in connectors or how well built they are. With a screw you can be sure.

If the wire in the box is too short, use pigtails.

This. A small contact area equals higher resistance and more heat for a given current. Code thinks it's a negligible risk, but why take it?

 

[Freedom56]

I installed four low profile LED ceiling lights to replace older bulky ceiling lights in our walk in closets and laundry room. Normally I have no issues with push in connectors especially those that are like a terminal strip, but I took one look at the push in connectors that these lights came with and opted for keeping the existing screw cap connectors. The were too small and too flimsy for me to risk using.

 

[mountainsoft]

Apparently there is no such thing as a 3-way outlet (crazy me). If wired in a certain way the outlet functions differently, but the same standard outlet applies.

I do need an outlet that will accept 12AWG on a push connection.

I'll throw this out there since no one else has mentioned it, by "3-way" do you mean one half is switched and one half is always powered? If so, any standard outlet can be adapted to that arrangement. Just break away the little tabs on the side to isolate the upper and lower outlets.

I agree with others that the correct fix for short wires is to add "pigtail" wires to the short wires with a wire nut, then connect the pigtail to the outlet. Assuming you have enough room in the box, of course.

As for the push connection, I would be surprised if they are even allowed by code anymore. I have personally seen several outlets with burned connectors due to loose connections. They basically rely on spring tension to maintain the connection and the springs often get weak over time. Dangerous fire hazard, I wouldn't use them even if they're allowed.

What you can do is buy a higher quality outlet that has clamping style connectors. They're essentially like a standard outlet, except you insert the wire under the clamp and tighten the screw, instead of wrapping the wire around the screw. They will easily handle a 12 gauge wire.

 

[finnski1]

If you go to online electricians forums they mostly avoid the push connector types. That was good enough for me.

 

[Jerry1]

What you can do is buy a higher quality outlet that has clamping style connectors. They're essentially like a standard outlet, except you insert the wire under the clamp and tighten the screw, instead of wrapping the wire around the screw. They will easily handle a 12 gauge wire.

That's what I do. I didn't realize it was associated with a higher quality outlet, but I like the clamping style. Strip the wire, keep it straight, stick it in the clamp and tighten up the screw. Ensures that I have a tight connection.