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Old 01-23-2017, 09:37 AM   #21
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I came up with many replies, but kept deleting them. I'll just say that in my almost 40 years of working in the corporate world, I only found HR of value in one instance. Rest of the time, nothing but less-than-positive feelings about them.
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:23 AM   #22
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Very positive in the employee owned engineering firms I worked for, not so much the two 15 year local government gigs. The first was unionized and had civil service as well; for the most part HR supported what management was trying to do. The second had neither but seemed so intent on political correctness that managing was made nearly impossible when dealing with problem employees. Their interpretations of regulations were over the top. Don't ask me for examples, I just don't remember. I'd ask private sector counterparts (and these were large companies) how their policies were enforced/worked, and it was nothing comparable.

All said, it was the issue of distorted politics/lack of respect for professionalism coupled with HR hurdles in dealing with problem employees that took the joy out of the career and caused me to fold up the tent a few years earlier than I would have. It seems like when I have the occasional lunch with former cohorts the topic of HR issues comes up often. And the HR department never is seen as the facilitator of solutions.
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Old 01-23-2017, 02:25 PM   #23
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DW spent nearly 40 years in HR at two different companies. She was mainly the tech person (systems analyst) who wrangled the software into submission to fit the company culture, but she saw everything that happened in the department.

Her take was that the majority of HR people are good, well-meaning folks, but it all comes down to the head of HR at any company. That person determines how well the department performs and how well it meets the needs of both executives and employees.
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Old 01-23-2017, 02:34 PM   #24
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My experiences with Co. HR has always been positive.
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Old 01-23-2017, 02:57 PM   #25
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I worked for a very small division of Megacorp, and we had our own on-site HR person. At first, the HR lead was very professional and helpful. When he retired, the lady that was the HR administrative assistant was promoted.

In my role as a manager she was useless in the hiring process. I would get 100 resumes put on my desk and 75% did not even meet the bare minimum requirements of the job description I spent hours putting together, at her insistence, because the generic HR description was not adequate. Needless to say, we clashed often.

This lady was also directly involved with year end ranking (which was the basis of our bonuses). She used that time to further undermine me, and this I got directly from my supervisor that sat in the meetings! He actually asked me what I had done to make her hate me so much! My answer was that I tried to make her do her job!

When she retired, things actually got worse, as that was when new Megacorp (we were sold) decided they could out source HR to ADP. When I retired my final check was in error. It took 6 months to get it corrected.

Glad I got that off my chest, and glad I never have to deal with another HR person in my life

Thinking back, there is a good reason the name of this department morphed from Personnel to Human Resources. Ultimately, the corporation treats employees as a resource (like a desk) and not a person.
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Old 01-23-2017, 03:02 PM   #26
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I've always wanted to be on the right side of HR. Back when I smoked that meant smokin a heater with the HR Gals. I know I don't want to be on their bad side.

Work with them on IT projects that are sensitive.

In terms of selecting benefits and hiring, depends on how motivated and experience HR is.

They work for management, to avoid lawsuits and unnecessary firings.
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Old 01-23-2017, 03:06 PM   #27
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My experience with hr is mostly negative. The company where I had the most exposure used hr to drive eeo. Each employee was given a value number based on race and gender. Do you were either a 0, 1 or 2. Managers were held accountable to maintain a certain baseline number which sometimes led to bizarre personnel decisions.
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Old 01-23-2017, 05:07 PM   #28
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I worked for a global firm that provided certain HR services to other megacorps, but I have to say that for the most part, our internal HR was abysmal. For example, when I was transferred overseas, I demanded several conditions that were important to our family. However, when it came time to live up to those conditions, HR decided, for whatever reason, that I didn't need them or deserve them. We went back and forth, over and over again, until I threatened to put myself and my family on the next plane home...that got their attention. At the time, I was pretty specialized, and was the only person who could do that job in both English and the targeted Asian language. It would have cost them several times as much to hire a consulting firm than to just live up to our agreement.

Second serious instance as an example: in 2009 after being in target country for 8 years longer than originally agreed, I was still irreplaceable. I went to the CEO and told him that I would stay, but that we needed to work out an exit strategy, because I couldn't stay forever. We worked out an agreement for 4 more years, ending at the end of 2012. SR VP of HR was in the room, and we all agreed that a contract would be forthcoming. It didn't come, and didn't come, but thankfully the basics had been outlined in emails going back and forth. Then the CEO was fired...and I waited, and prodded, and waited, and prodded. Eventually, September of 2012 comes around, and I essentially went to the CEO and demanded the agreement in writing. I had a very good relationship with him, for the most part, and we worked well together. HR and legal finally got something to me, but it was missing a lot of things we had agreed, so we went back and forth again and again...thank goodness for those emails documenting the agreement from 2009. But HR still tried to suppress parts of what had been agreed. The way I saw it, HR was unhappy that someone would receive so much as a parting gift, but, it had all been agreed years before, and was largely based on my performance for those last 4 years (and my division had stellar performance compared to my peers' even during the recession. In any case, we signed the agreement just before I called the movers to come back home. I was not about to leave until they came thru with the documentation, and at the end of the day, the CEO was on my side in that respect, and he called them (HR) on their games.

All of that said, I did respect and support the HR dept in my division. At one point, I gave my HR dept head a letter of reprimand, telling him that if he didn't light a fire under his dept, he would be let go. He lit a fire, got things going the way they needed to be (turning the dept into a support team instead of a bureaucracy), and remains one of my best friends to this day.
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Old 01-23-2017, 06:09 PM   #29
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It has been my experience that HR personnel are generally trying to do the best they can and most care about the employees and what happens to them. Unfortunately, "best" is a term that is influenced by their basic need to protect the company first, protect the management's interests second, take care of day-to-day duties third, and take care of the employees (outside of their daily duties) as an ancillary responsibility.

The easiest way to get HR to care about you and want to help is to be in a place to sue the company or file an EEOC or have some other similar claim against the company. At that point, you'll get either a ton of support from HR or you'll get just enough so they can say they addressed the issue. The "smart" ones tend to do the latter.

Of course, if you get to that point, HR will have probably train the "offender(s)" on what they can and can't do. Such training generally includes things like "you can't do THIS to that person, but if you did this other thing to equally screw them over it would be perfectly legal". It may be illegal to punish someone for doing what everyone does in the department, but it's not illegal to change policy for everyone (even if the change to policy would only have a real impact on the person with protection from discrimination for instance).
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Old 01-23-2017, 06:51 PM   #30
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As I have said I worked for a large Oil Company . I could complain but the HR lady was informative helpful and really seemed concerned. I could hardly understand her she had a strong accent so I thought she can't eat me . I asked her where she was from , she told me Saudi Arabia . I then asked her was she a U S citizen and she told me she was H1B . I could be mad but this lady had bottled water , a box of tissues and was playing some kind of low zen music. I was 3 weeks short of 25 years so you get a big bonus . I told her about it and she told me she would make sure I got it and I did.
The bad side was I was escorted by a guard to my truck , he peeled off my sticker . I never got to get anything from my desk ( they mailed it to my house ) and I never got to say goodbye . Welcome to the Oilfield !
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Old 01-23-2017, 07:10 PM   #31
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They have a tough job and I think generally do it pretty well though. Poor performers generally don't like HR. Good performers often like them a lot better.
I'm glad that you had some positive experiences with HR and it's important to hear the range of opinions. Insinuating that those of us who generally don't like HR are "poor performers" is offensive and not conducive to reasonable dialog.
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Old 01-23-2017, 07:20 PM   #32
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As Mama says... if you can't say something good about someone then don't say anything at all. Enough said.
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Old 01-23-2017, 07:44 PM   #33
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At previous megacorp, HR was primarily liability mitigation. There were a few good folks over the years, but the department (and their sister department- training and development) tended to collect folks that should have been fired, but because they checked the box on several diversity categories they were moved into HR. HR never really made any problems, they were basically the messenger for policies that were developed at the much higher levels of management. At the same time, they really couldn't do much to help out. Their role was to not get sued, not to ask questions about policy.

On the training side, there was some training that I wanted to attend but was never able to get put on the list. Turns out the training person was using the position to send her friends to the fancy training sessions that were at the resorts, fancy hotels, etc. There was not enough budget to support technical training. That did eventually catch up with her...
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Old 01-23-2017, 07:54 PM   #34
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I'm glad that you had some positive experiences with HR and it's important to hear the range of opinions. Insinuating that those of us who generally don't like HR are "poor performers" is offensive and not conducive to reasonable dialog.
Yeah, what a load of fertilizer. By that criteria all of the high performing ERs here must have really been poor performers. Bullhockey.
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:44 PM   #35
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Small company, one part time HR. I was looking at major surgery which would keep me out of work for 8-16 weeks. She made a point of telling me that after a week, I would be transferred to the LT disability plan. I pointed out that that was my choice and I would be using the 93 days of sick time I had accumulated. She tried to convince me that the benefit of tax free disability payments (@60% of pay) was better then 100% pay with 75% health insurance paid, 401k match and continuing to accrue vacation and holidays! When I confronted her with the numbers, she admitted that I was the only person who would figure that out, and she was trying to save the company $$$. So, I don't think highly of HR.
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Old 01-24-2017, 08:14 AM   #36
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I've sat on both sides of that table, and my experience is that HR does the job it's told to do, in support of the agenda set out by the executive team.
Exactly.
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Old 01-24-2017, 08:21 AM   #37
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When I confronted her with the numbers, she admitted that I was the only person who would figure that out, and she was trying to save the company $$$. So, I don't think highly of HR.
At least she was honest in the end. In my first job a coworker playing for a company-sponsored baseball team wrecked his knee sliding into first base and needed surgery. He asked HR if Worker's Comp would cover. (Our health insurance plan was pretty skimpy- this was back in the 1970s- and Worker's Comp would be pretty much 100% paid.) No, they said. He called the State Insurance Commissioner's office and found someone who knew the provisions of the Workers' Comp law. Yes, it WAS covered. Another case of HR trying to save the company money at the employee's expense.
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Old 01-25-2017, 01:30 AM   #38
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I'm glad that you had some positive experiences with HR and it's important to hear the range of opinions. Insinuating that those of us who generally don't like HR are "poor performers" is offensive and not conducive to reasonable dialog.
I reread my post and I can see why you might be offended. I apologize. Certainly, not my intention to imply that all people that had negative experiences with HR were poor performers. This is clearly not true. I just wanted to point out that HR has a tough job to do and by necessity needs to deal with poor performers. This is a challenge and would not likely result in happy feelings for those involved.
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Old 01-25-2017, 03:12 AM   #39
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My experience has been a mixed bag depending on the person. For the most part I would say the ones I worked with were not super efficient at their jobs.

One HR person, the one who was supposed to be dedicated to our department, filled her schedule up with optional committees, like the women's empowerment committee and some mucky mucks' retirement party planning committee, sent her schedule out to all the managers she was supposed to be working with to show she would have no time to ever meet with any of us. But working with our department managers on employee performance, hiring and firing was supposed to be her actual job - the only kind of work that was actually in her job description. Catbert would have gotten more done and had been more well liked.

All hiring, firing and reviews ground to a halt until things got escalated to the senior VPs of both departments and somebody had a chat with her. I would have thought somebody like her would just have been fired for cause after a week or two of simply refusing to do any actual work, but megacorps work in mysterious ways (and she was a personal friend of the CEO).
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Old 01-25-2017, 03:15 AM   #40
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Positive but declined rapidly over time to a definite negative. In many instances they became an impediment to the hiring and the firing process. One memorable occasion when, as a Canadian subsidiary, we were actually asked to collect data that was contrary to our laws. Another memorable occasion was when I caught a first level manager stealing product. HR wanted to give him a package because of his tenure. I refused. We gave him the statutory separation payment. They did not want 'trouble' and seemed immune to what other employees would think if we rewarded theft with a package.

They came up with so many interesting terms for firing people. Downsizing, transitioning, rightsizing, value recapture, span of control adjustment etc.
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