What Makes a Premium Marque Car Worth It?

[HF63]

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Originally Posted by explanade Because they're not easy to maintain or repair yourself or because they're less reliable? I know that electronic fuel injection controlled by chips prevented a lot of smaller shops from working on newer cars because only the dealer could buy expensive equipment to tweak those electronics.

The cost of the CVT's is crazy, one quart of oil is like 30 dollars versus 4-7 for the regular stuff. The repair costs are also crazy, I can get a regular trans rebuild for 800-1300 versus 4500-5000 for the CVT.

The direct injection has not been sorted out, the older Volvo's used to suffer from carbon build up at the valves and dealers had to blast the valves clean with walnut shells. This was easily done because the cars where rear wheel drive and you could easily access the valves easily.
Not so easy on a front wheel drive.

[calmloki]

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Originally Posted by Sojourner I recently went through this same exact thought process. My older "premium marque" car finally bought the farm and I had to replace it. As I was searching for what I might like and what made the most sense for my life, I noticed that the premium / luxury models a) were not rated much higher (if at all) by Consumer Reports and b) the price premiums seemed to be unreasonably large for the extra "value" they supposedly were providing. For example, in the small SUV class, the price premiums for the least expensive BMW or Mercedes or Cadillac tended to be at least $5,000 compared to the most expensive, fully decked out Mazda or Honda or Ford. And as I looked into exactly what I'd be getting for that extra $5K or $7K (or more), I found that it was essentially nothing I considered important. Did I really want to spend an extra $6,000 for a few convenience features like seat position memory, self-closing doors, and heated back seats? In my case, the answer was a definitive "no". And at this point in my life, the prestige of having the fancy luxury branding was not nearly appealing enough to justify the added cost.

In the same boat. Had a 2000 BMW 528 wagon, which was fantastic for long road trips. Stepped up to a 2008 BMW 328 wagon with a 1/4 million miles less and it is not the long distance cruiser the 5 was. Have spent some absurd money on preventive maintenance, and that is buying my own parts and having found a retired BMW lead tech for labor. I'm getting tired of unfolding myself from the seats - both were sport suspension and sit low.
The BMW X1 is a compact SUV with 4 cylinders and front wheel drive (egad). Sits higher while being pretty compact and having enough cubic feet of cargo area for our trips back and forth Or to Cal. The seat is located away from the side of the car toward the center - not sure I want to stick my butt into the car that far when performing the seating maneuver. The Mazda CX5 has more cargo area, less horsepower, takes regular gas, gets better fuel economy, is less compact and has fewer doodads that make for more road comfort. Drives with some verve though, but is louder inside and has a poorer audio system. Probably has fewer maintenance issues. What to do what to do?

[ls99]

I owned two Mercedes, and on my second Jaguar. They were all cheap as I got them used. All needed a good bit of work initially, all of which I did myself.


I do like the comforts, handling, low end torque for getting moving in a hurry (perceived as power when stomping on the gas pedal),_for me very low cost of ongoing ownership. This scenario works well for DIY. If someone uses credit cards as tools, not so good of a deal.

My first Benz I had for six years, the second for over 20. First Jaguar had for seven years, the current one is going on five years, purch price $3000.- and about $800.- in parts, to get it up to snuff. Since then only a set of tires and the annual oil change and annual inspections mandate by PA. No mor repairs since buying it, exc. the initial. All along also had full size GM pickup trucks.

[Midpack]

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Originally Posted by CRLLS I don't get any thrills from what other people think of the car I drive. A car is a car. It needs to serve the purpose and no more. I get my vehicle pride from the ones I build or restore.

I don't care what other people think either. But two of the (semi) premium cars we owned were just noticeably more fun to drive. Though I drove them that way consciously about 1% of the time, the other 99% any car would've done.

Together we've owned 12 cars so far, the 'score' is 3 semi premiums, 9 value brands/models - that probably reflects our priorities, we go value 75% of the time.

And we're both more uneasy leaving newish or premium cars in parking lots. If you look out at the most distant, end spots in any lot - that's where you'll find us parked, even when the cars get old...

[MichaelB]

What is the definition of a premium car?

[Midpack]

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Originally Posted by MichaelB What is the definition of a premium car?

I was getting at the 'rationalization process' which might be fairly universal, and I can't speak for others definition of premium. But in my little world premium examples: BMW 5, Mercedes E, Audi 6, any Porsche, Lexus RC/GS and above.

[Mr._Graybeard]

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Originally Posted by ls99 I owned two Mercedes, and on my second Jaguar. They were all cheap as I got them used. All needed a good bit of work initially, all of which I did myself. I do like the comforts, handling, low end torque for getting moving in a hurry (perceived as power when stomping on the gas pedal),_for me very low cost of ongoing ownership. This scenario works well for DIY. If someone uses credit cards as tools, not so good of a deal. My first Benz I had for six years, the second for over 20. First Jaguar had for seven years, the current one is going on five years, purch price $3000.- and about $800.- in parts, to get it up to snuff. Since then only a set of tires and the annual oil change and annual inspections mandate by PA. No mor repairs since buying it, exc. the initial. All along also had full size GM pickup trucks.

We have similar car-buying philosophies. I've driven a '95 BMW 540i since 2005. It stranded me twice in 12 years. I do nearly all my own work.

To me, the selling point of a "premium" car is the seats. I can't sit in a Toyota for more than 100 miles without my arse aching. Honda seats are better, but they can't match the seats in a Benz (neither can BMW's).

[braumeister]

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Originally Posted by MichaelB What is the definition of a premium car?

Boy, is that ever subjective.
I know people who could easily afford high end cars but drive an old beater because it makes them happy.

I used to know a guy who had two Rolls-Royces (same car in different colors) but they were his daily drivers.

[ugeauxgirl]

I bought a German car ONCE- and there was a never ending stream of recalls and really weird (and expensive) stuff breaking on it. The dealership was an hours drive away, and I spent an absurd amount of time in the service waiting room- they NEVER had loaner cars available). I backed into a property marking stake and it made a small hole the size of a dime in my plastic bumper. The dealership wanted $1700 to fix it. I put a bumper sticker over it and sold it, never to buy a German car again.

After that, I buy cars based on Consumer Reports reliability surveys. Its been mostly Hondas and Toyotas. This last time around I bought a Mazda 6 and its fun to drive and most importantly, does not break. Won't need to replace it till 12 year old is driving age- will probably pass it along to him.

[MichaelB]

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Originally Posted by Midpack I was getting at the 'rationalization process' which might be fairly universal, and I can't speak for others definition of premium. But in my little world premium examples: BMW 5, Mercedes E, Audi 6, any Porsche, Lexus RC/GS and above.

Got it. Not trying to stir things up, just understand the perspective.

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Originally Posted by braumeister Boy, is that ever subjective. I know people who could easily afford high end cars but drive an old beater because it makes them happy. I used to know a guy who had two Rolls-Royces (same car in different colors) but they were his daily drivers.

I know and agree - and can remember a time in my life when 4 wheels and a working motor qualified it as premium.

[ExFlyBoy5]

I have an Infiniti that is getting close to 100K miles but in all honesty, it rides and performs almost as well as when it was new. I initially thought that when it gives up the ghost (and that could be a while!) I would go more in the direction of "utility or appliance" type car and the overwhelming choice for that would be (if I had to replace the G-ride today) a 2013 Toyota Corolla. BUT...I don't know that I could actually pull the trigger.

I very much enjoy the sportiness of the G ride and it has been the most dependable car I have ever owned, so I would most likely buy another Infiniti that is a couple of years old and stop fretting over the "added cost" of the Infiniti brand-plate.

[Bestwifeever]

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Originally Posted by MichaelB What is the definition of a premium car?

I was stuck at "marque"--obviously I don't know nothing about car mystique .

Our Acura MDX is the priciest car we will ever own but cost a few thousand less than the cars being discussed here as "premium marque." We talked to our Honda guy about the new Honda CRV vs the new Acura RDX and he said luxury cars don't loosen up as time goes on--they start out quiet and stay quiet. Certainly true of the Acura we own. It's supercomfortable with a big (for us) engine but you can hear a pin drop, at 13 years old.

Our German cousins drive Audis and VWs--no Mercedes or BMWs for them. Not sure why, but they could certainly afford them.

When I see a nice car on the street I don't assign a status to the owner, I just think, "nice car!" If people love them and can afford them, why not.

[braumeister]

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Originally Posted by ugeauxgirl I buy cars based on Consumer Reports reliability surveys. Its been mostly Hondas and Toyotas. This last time around I bought a Mazda 6 and its fun to drive and most importantly, does not break. Won't need to replace it till 12 year old is driving age- will probably pass it along to him.

You have lots of company, but I still laugh when I read about CR car recommendations.

Back in the 70s I needed a car but didn't have a lot of money so I decided to rely on CR as a trusted source. They gave one new model such a glowing rave review that it was a no-brainer for me to buy one. Absolutely the worst car I've ever owned. It spent nearly as much time in the shop as on the road, and I got to be a whiz at making roadside repairs. Carried all sorts of spare parts in the trunk, just because I had to -- I could go through two clutch cables in 1,000 miles. I've taken their reviews with a big grain of salt ever since.

[HF63]

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Originally Posted by ls99 I owned two Mercedes, and on my second Jaguar. They were all cheap as I got them used. All needed a good bit of work initially, all of which I did myself. I do like the comforts, handling, low end torque for getting moving in a hurry (perceived as power when stomping on the gas pedal),_for me very low cost of ongoing ownership. This scenario works well for DIY. If someone uses credit cards as tools, not so good of a deal. My first Benz I had for six years, the second for over 20. First Jaguar had for seven years, the current one is going on five years, purch price $3000.- and about $800.- in parts, to get it up to snuff. Since then only a set of tires and the annual oil change and annual inspections mandate by PA. No mor repairs since buying it, exc. the initial. All along also had full size GM pickup trucks.

I like the new styling of the new Jaguar's, if you where on the market for one which model will you consider?

[Midpack]

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Originally Posted by ugeauxgirl I bought a German car ONCE- and there was a never ending stream of recalls and really weird (and expensive) stuff breaking on it. The dealership was an hours drive away, and I spent an absurd amount of time in the service waiting room- they NEVER had loaner cars available). I backed into a property marking stake and it made a small hole the size of a dime in my plastic bumper. The dealership wanted $1700 to fix it. I put a bumper sticker over it and sold it, never to buy a German car again.

You're welcome to your conclusion, but it seems a little unfair to indict all German cars. If you had problems with a Ford Fiesta, and concluded you'd 'never buy an American car again,' would that makes sense.

[meierlde]

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Originally Posted by HF63 Since I did my own out-of warranty repairs, I generally went with main stream vehicles. They seem to have parts that are stocked at the local parts places and are lower cost. For example, a friend just had his Smart car in for a fuel pump. A rather pedestrian vehicle that has an premium sales outlet, Mercedes Benz. The OEM fuel pump repair was 1150+ Pump alone was >330 Labor was 800 for a couple of hours work. Alternatively, the OEM pump for my 2000 GMC ran me $160 to DIY 2 years ago. My point is premium cars get premium repair costs. One thing to note here is that the fuel injectors might be at the combustion chamber which is call direct injection and these fuel pumps are very expensive because the pressure has to be higher than the compression on the chamber. Lots of new cars from Honda, Toyota's have started to migrate to this because of better fuel economy. I have started to hear of some problems with the valves getting all junk up with carbon. If I was looking for a new set of wheels, I will avoid cars this direct injection and CVT transmissions.

To take this a bit further buy a car from the US big 3 and any podunk down will likley have dealers for the car. My town of 20k in a county of 45k only has the 3 us car dealers. My sister had a Subaru that had a problem here and no local mechanic would touch it so they put it on a trailer and hauled it home. Or buy the extended towing from AAA to get to a town with service facilities.

[ugeauxgirl]

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Originally Posted by Midpack You're welcome to your conclusion, but it seems a little unfair to indict all German cars. If you had problems with a Ford Fiesta, and concluded you'd 'never buy an American car again,' would that makes sense.

You are right there. I din't really mean that the way it came out. Before buying that car, I thought that looking good was important. After that car, I realize there is nothing I hate more than a high maintenance car- no matter how good it looks. So now I shop for low maintenance cars.

I have a friend who works for a German company, and he laughed at me when I was complaining about my car troubles. He did say that German engineers believe that machines should be serviced regularly, and Japanese designed cars don't require the same level of service. I have no idea if he's right as I know very little about cars.

German autos don't seem to show up in the Consumer reports most reliable list as often as the ones I have been buying.

[Midpack]

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Originally Posted by ugeauxgirl You are right there. I din't really mean that the way it came out. Before buying that car, I thought that looking good was important. After that car, I realize there is nothing I hate more than a high maintenance car- no matter how good it looks. So now I shop for low maintenance cars. I have a friend who works for a German company, and he laughed at me when I was complaining about my car troubles. He did say that German engineers believe that machines should be serviced regularly, and Japanese designed cars don't require the same level of service. I have no idea if he's right as I know very little about cars. German autos don't seem to show up in the Consumer reports most reliable list as often as the ones I have been buying.

Why not name the brand? I've owned a BMW and an Audi, my Dad had a Mercedes and a BMW that I know very well. Maintenance and repairs on all of them were very expensive**. But the BMW's and the Audi were arguably as reliable as the 7 Hondas and Toyotas we've owned. The Mercedes was not at all. I've had a bad experience with Nissan and Volvo too. IOW, not all German cars are the same, and Consumer Reports doesn't rank all German makes and models the same either.

[ExFlyBoy5]

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Originally Posted by braumeister You have lots of company, but I still laugh when I read about CR car recommendations. Back in the 70s I needed a car but didn't have a lot of money so I decided to rely on CR as a trusted source. They gave one new model such a glowing rave review that it was a no-brainer for me to buy one. Absolutely the worst car I've ever owned. It spent nearly as much time in the shop as on the road, and I got to be a whiz at making roadside repairs. Carried all sorts of spare parts in the trunk, just because I had to -- I could go through two clutch cables in 1,000 miles. I've taken their reviews with a big grain of salt ever since.

For sure! I use True Delta for reliability reporting...it's compiled from actual owners and I have found that the way they collect the information only adds to the reliability of the reporting. As far as CR, I put them in the same category as JD Power "Initial Quality"....which is useless to me.

[jimbee]

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Originally Posted by Midpack You're welcome to your conclusion, but it seems a little unfair to indict all German cars. If you had problems with a Ford Fiesta, and concluded you'd 'never buy an American car again,' would that makes sense.

A lot of people do that.