Where to move, and why?

[Accidental Retiree]

We've been looking to relocate for the past few years and have decided to stay in California. We may move out to the other side of Sacramento, closer to Lake Tahoe, or we may move down to the Central Coast. We would like a slower pace of life than we're experiencing in the Bay Area, and often we just think we're ready for a change.

We may just stay put. We have lived in this house for 31 years this summer, and I think it would be very hard for me to leave all the plants I've put in over those years.

Right now we're just in "getting ready for the market" mode, putting on the finishing touches. Once that's done and we are actually market-ready, we will look and see if there's anything in either place that is worth making the move for.

Real estate is getting hot around here again, and the prices I am seeing are making my eyes bug out in disbelief. However, there is no point in selling if there is not somewhere else we'd rather be.

 

[robnplunder]

We've been looking to relocate for the past few years and have decided to stay in California. We may move out to the other side of Sacramento, closer to Lake Tahoe, or we may move down to the Central Coast. We would like a slower pace of life than we're experiencing in the Bay Area, and often we just think we're ready for a change.

We were thinking along the same line. I've recently added The Villages, Florida as an option. At early 50s, active lifestyle The Villages offer may suit us. Besides, 40+ golf courses is a strong incentive for me.

 

[robnplunder]

For fun, I did an "expense" exercise for 3 options: living in Bay Area, in Sacramento/CA, and The villages/Florida. To maintain my current living standard at RE, it'd take $120000/year, $95000, and $90000, respectively. I can RE now in Sac/CA & Florida. RE in Bay Area will only have 84% success via FireCalc (I need to work 1 more year).

 

[dvalley]

^ between the three locations what contributed to the cost of living difference?

Reading this thread with interest. So far I've only considered NV since it's close to CA and no state income tax. I enjoy the outdoor life, camping way out in the middle of nowhere etc. I'd want a house with an RV parking and a garage big enough for me to work on my cars etc. About 5-6 years ago I was day dreaming about living on a ranch somewhere, living a self-sufficient life with a hobby farm etc but that sounds too mushy now

 

[Accidental Retiree]

For fun, I did an "expense" exercise for 3 options: living in Bay Area, in Sacramento/CA, and The villages/Florida. To maintain my current living standard at RE, it'd take $120000/year, $95000, and $90000, respectively. I can RE now in Sac/CA & Florida. RE in Bay Area will only have 84% success via FireCalc (I need to work 1 more year).

The difference of $2000+/mo. between the Bay Area and Sacramento surprises me. We didn't find the same thing. In fact, we figure that it would cost us to move out to Sacramento (well, El Dorado County, so that we can retain our Prop 13 tax base).

They get pretty hot out there part of the year and we would have to run A/C during the day and the whole house fan at night. We have very temperate weather here and don't run the A/C more than 2 weeks a year, if that. With the new low-E windows we are installing next week, that frequency might go down.

Water, sewer, and trash rates are also all higher out there. More heat will also require more water for the plants and yard and hence, even higher rates still.

I would like to see what you're looking at because maybe I've missed something important.

We don't golf, so green fees don't count.

 

[BTravlin]

Bought a waterfront condo on the island of Cozumel when properties were on sale in 2010. Rented it out for 3 years and then FIRE's and moved here permanently last May.

Pluses:
- low cost of living
- NO SNOW or FREEZING TEMPS
- avg hi temps thru out the year range from 82F to 91F; avg low temps from 69F to 78F
- lots of sunshine
- people are extremely friendly and welcoming
- lots of water activities - swimming, scuba diving, snorkeling, paddleboarding, kayaking, sailing, etc
- much slower pace of life
- no need for a car, we walk everywhere to help stay in shape
- DW and I can go to the movies for about $18 total including the snack bar
- huge variety of excellent restaurants from very inexpensive on up
- easy access to the mainland for travel throughout Mexico and into Central America
- international airport on the island with flights to many U.S. hubs
- active expat community that allows you to get involved in many activities

Minuses:
- forget those, we're selling the location, right?

 

[Surewhitey]

Bought a waterfront condo on the island of Cozumel when properties were on sale in 2010. Rented it out for 3 years and then FIRE's and moved here permanently last May.

Pluses:
- low cost of living
- NO SNOW or FREEZING TEMPS
- avg hi temps thru out the year range from 82F to 91F; avg low temps from 69F to 78F
- lots of sunshine
- people are extremely friendly and welcoming
- lots of water activities - swimming, scuba diving, snorkeling, paddleboarding, kayaking, sailing, etc
- much slower pace of life
- no need for a car, we walk everywhere to help stay in shape
- DW and I can go to the movies for about $18 total including the snack bar
- huge variety of excellent restaurants from very inexpensive on up
- easy access to the mainland for travel throughout Mexico and into Central America
- international airport on the island with flights to many U.S. hubs
- active expat community that allows you to get involved in many activities

Minuses:
- forget those, we're selling the location, right?

+1 on the area. We're over here in Playa del Carmen. Cozumel is a cleaner version of us and have the bike path around the island too. We have often said we'd like to come over there (if only our friends here would too).

The only negative I saw over there is the cruise ships every stinkin' day, but then you just stay away from that part of town, right?

We just found $90 rt air to Tuxtla (Chiapas) from Cancun. We'll definitely be going back there and do some shopping / sights...

 

[InParadise]

Anyone have insight on Belize?

 

[Moemg]

For fun, I did an "expense" exercise for 3 options: living in Bay Area, in Sacramento/CA, and The villages/Florida. To maintain my current living standard at RE, it'd take $120000/year, $95000, and $90000, respectively. I can RE now in Sac/CA & Florida. RE in Bay Area will only have 84% success via FireCalc (I need to work 1 more year).

I think you are way overestimating the cost to live in the Villages . Plus you can not compare "The Villages " to San Francisco . Have you been there ? It is in central Florida not near the coast .

 

[robnplunder]

The difference of $2000+/mo. between the Bay Area and Sacramento surprises me. We didn't find the same thing. In fact, we figure that it would cost us to move out to Sacramento (well, El Dorado County, so that we can retain our Prop 13 tax base).

Selling my house in Bay Area can afford me to buy an equivalent house in cash using equity, and downsizing. This took mortgage out, and reduced property tax for both Sacramento & The Villages estimates. That contributes to the most difference.

 

[robnplunder]

I think you are way overestimating the cost to live in the Villages . Plus you can not compare "The Villages " to San Francisco . Have you been there ? It is in central Florida not near the coast .

No, I haven't been to the villages but am starting to think about it as an RE option.

B/c I don't know much about village life, my estimate can be more off than my other two estimates. The estimate include $7k (family related expense), and $8k (to play their regulation golf courses year around). House would be bought in cash from equity/downsizing from CA house.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Selling my house in Bay Area can afford me to buy an equivalent house in cash using equity, and downsizing. This took mortgage out, and reduced property tax.

Have you looked at just moving outside the commute zone for most corporate jobs? That might drop your house price in half or more just going out of town 30 minutes or so, depending on where you live now.

 

[robnplunder]

^ between the three locations what contributed to the cost of living difference?

Reading this thread with interest. So far I've only considered NV since it's close to CA and no state income tax. I enjoy the outdoor life, camping way out in the middle of nowhere etc. I'd want a house with an RV parking and a garage big enough for me to work on my cars etc. About 5-6 years ago I was day dreaming about living on a ranch somewhere, living a self-sufficient life with a hobby farm etc but that sounds too mushy now

I hear you. Above was my thinking 7 - 8 years ago and visited Reno area a few times to buy a vacation house (and future retirement home).When the recession came, I stopped looking. 4.5 years ago, me and DW made a mistake of taking up golf and got completely hooked. So, any place with cold winter is out of contention for our retirement and I dropped Reno from the list. The moral of the story - don't pick up golf as your main hobby .

 

[imoldernu]

At the risk of going off topic... for the younger and "not yet" retirees... one of the points that could have an effect of a decision "not yet made", could be the effects of population growth or loss of the state or area under consideration.
In our case, the population of Florida has increased by a third since we bought in 1991. That shows up in traffic congestion, building out and to a degree, neighborhood stability etc.
On the opposite end, other states and communities have remained stable or decreased in population, sometimes adding strain to taxation.
Not a real big deal, but you may want to take a look at the population history of your current state, or where you may be looking to move.

U.S. Population by State, 1790 to 2012 | Infoplease.com

 

[robnplunder]

Have you looked at just moving outside the commute zone for most corporate jobs? That might drop your house price in half or more just going out of town 30 minutes or so, depending on where you live now.

My Sacramento estimate can be applied to various places in California where house price can be dropped in half. But I am getting more and more annoyed by CA tax situation (prop, sales, income). Sales tax is now averaging close to 10%. Property tax + all the fees can go up to 1.7% of house assessment. Depending on how I fund my RE income, I have to pay State Income tax. They all add up and causing havoc to my FireCalc results .

 

[NYEXPAT]

We have been in the "City of Kings" (Lima,Peru) for the past 11 years and are very happy here.

Temp's rarely get below 58 in winter or 79 in summer.
Constant ocean breezes,
No rain,lightning,thunder,hail,snow,hurricanes,Tornadoes,bugs,snakes,feral pigs or things that go bump in the night!

Rents are cheap, We live in the fashionable district of Miraflores and pay $767.00 for a three bedroom luxury apartment a few blocks from the Pacific Ocean.

RE taxes of $500.00/year on a 1700 sq ft Ocean View Penthouse we own. Includes city water/sewage 7 day garbage pickup (no recycling needed) 6 day mail delivery, 24 hr private security force in addition to National/transit/tourist police.

No car necessary as all stores,movie theaters,private clinics,malls,restaurants,cafes/bars,casino's,etc are within 17 sq blocks. I think there might even be a few churches?

Cheap health insurance/dental work, doctors make house calls and my clinic makes Ocean front rooms available.

Maids,Nurses,Hookers and handymen are low cost and plentiful.

One Hour drive to the high desert for winter Sun,swimming and hiking.
One hour flight to Cusco (Belly of the Earth) and Macchu Picchu.
One hour flight to float on the Amazon River or experience Jungle flora/fauna or cheap hookers.

Unfortunately, for us we will have to leave Paradise for 10 years or so to educate our young children and make sure my YW will always qualify for my SS Survivor benefits. Current plan is to return when I am 75 or so and buy a Chacra in the foothills of the Andes (an hour away from the city) or a Coffee plantation(8 hours drive) in the High Jungle. We may buy 73 hectares ( 200+ acres)outside Oxapampa with a private waterfall from a friend of mine in the states who bought years ago for $100k and will now part with it for 42K.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

My Sacramento estimate can be applied to various places in California where house price can be dropped in half. But I am getting more and more annoyed by CA tax situation (prop, sales, income). Sales tax is now averaging close to 10%. Property tax + all the fees can go up to 1.7% of house assessment. Depending on how I fund my RE income, I have to pay State Income tax. They all add up and causing havoc to my FireCalc results .

Sacramento is quite a bit hotter and flatter, but some of the overbuilt Bay Area fringe suburbs will get you a newish house with low maintenance costs, still give you easy access to the Bay Area and all the parks, beaches, museums, airports and attractions for half the price or less of closer in housing.

For property tax, prop 13 keeps it pretty low for most long term residents. If you don't have much taxable income, you won't pay any state taxes. Sales taxes are low if you don't buy a lot of stuff.

Just some thoughts. Florida has a lot to offer, too. But I think once you get housing costs under control, the Bay Area cost of living isn't that much more than many other locations in the U.S. And just outside the commute zones to high paying jobs, housing prices aren't as crazy high.

 

[FinanceGeek]

The ACA effectively removes South Dakota as a viable alternative for those western travelers needing a virtual presence.

Excuse my ignorance, but why so?

 

[jerome len]

three areas are important to me in my retirement home(s). 1. state taxes. 2. kids. 3. health care. I've had the same Doc for over 20 years and when I need a specialist, he always recommends a good one. 2. I would hate NY or California, having to pay over 10% income tax.......5% is my limit. 3. I love my kids and grandkids. I don't want to move to an area that makes the majority of them a plane ride away. Now, some of this could change when I might need assisted living in truly old age but for now these three items sort of tell me where to live. I am downsizing........don't need a big house with the kids all grown up.......and love condo living......too lazy to cut grass and most neighbors are around my age.......know the ethnic family restaurant owners......been going to most of them them for years and they appreciate my business......and are cheap, overall, compared to the new franchises. All in all, life is good and when it's good why change it.

 

[kcowan]

The only negative I saw over there is the cruise ships every stinkin' day, but then you just stay away from that part of town, right?

The cruise ship passengers have a prescribed route with only the adventurous going beyond. So yes it is easy to avoid them when in port.

(From PV all year long except summer.)

 

[bjorn2bwild]

Excuse my ignorance, but why so?

According to recent threads on the Escapees forum, SD insurers now require proof of a physical address and that 9 months of the year be spent in state. Kind of a deal breaker for travelers.

Caution Full Timers on Home Address for ACA application - Health Issues and Medical Insurance - Escapees Discussion Forum

 

[Cassie]

Like aja888 & Alan, my part of the Houston suburbs has grown since I moved here in 1995. At that time there was no mall, movie theater, a large selection of restaurants or big box stores. The freeways were easy to navigate and where there were pastures with grazing cows...there are now super markets and more master planned communities. (due to the prison selling off their land).

My plan is to de-clutter my house in 2014 and sell it in 2015. It was built about 20 years ago and hasn't been updated and I don't want the hassle. I'm hoping I can sell "as is". Also during the year I have to decide where to live. Since retiring 8 weeks ago I'm actually enjoying the area as I can pick the time of day to go out and it is nice to have everything so close My doctors are close too.

On the other hand I've wanted to live in New Mexico because:
** culture
** 4 seasons
**minimal natural disasters (hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes)
**casinos
**relatively low cost of living compared to moving home (back east)

So bottom line is, I'm not sure what to do...I don"t know anyone in NM, but then I only have 2 close friends here & there's no state tax. As you can tell by my rambling, I'm in a quandary. Oh, did I say I hate the maintenance of home ownership?

 

[Marita40]

Has anyone relocated solo, that is no spouse along or kids in the area, etc.? I sometimes have dreams of relocating in retirement but don't know if I have the energy or desire to start "all over again" as I did several times for grad school and work when younger. It is hard when you are single because there are so many things one could do and no one to negotiate with to narrow choices.

 

[jjquantz]

We're looking at staying in Northern VA, DC suburbs. It's a difficult collection of wants for the two of us.
1. High quality health care for DW with lupus,
2. Access to museums (free!),
3. Access to opera and period instrument baroque performances.
4. A community of amateur music performers.
5. A home golf course that I can WALK until my legs collapse at around the age of 80 or so.

We actually have considered moving further south and golf course communities are extremely tempting BUT the thing that I will not compromise on at this stage in my early retirement years is the ability to walk all of my 100+ rounds of golf each year. That seems to rule out almost all of Florida.

 

[Cassie]

Has anyone relocated solo, that is no spouse along or kids in the area, etc.? I sometimes have dreams of relocating in retirement but don't know if I have the energy or desire to start "all over again" as I did several times for grad school and work when younger. It is hard when you are single because there are so many things one could do and no one to negotiate with to narrow choices.

I'm interested in solo responses too, as my relocation would be sans spouse/kids. Thanks Marita40 for posing the question.