Whole house generator

[ncbill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelover At my last house, I put a plug on the furnace and plugged it into an outlet I'd installed for that purpose. When I had my furnace replaced the installers had to remove that setup as it wasn't legal. I'm not sure what the rationale is for the illegality, but it is an easy modification to make.

Ditto...there was already an standard outlet there for the condensate pump...don't know why it has to be hardwired into a switch when installed...the switch already controls both outlets.

[sengsational]

Talking about powering a gas furnace, I'll share my fail. On power out, I just ran a length of 12-2 I had laying around from the generator to the furnace, disconnecting the furnace from the house wiring. The average draw of the fan motor "should have worked", but the tiny generator couldn't manage the startup current. So, disappointed, I reassembled, and during that process, the power came back on. Can any guess if I had flipped the breaker before starting? Well, it would have been a worse fail if not, but I did take that precaution.

[Jerry1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry1 I’m sure you know this, but the furnace is a little bit of a challenge since I’m pretty sure it’s hard wired. Therefore, you can’t just plug it in to the extension cord. Make sure you have a plan for that. I rigged something up for my son in law when they lost power but it required that I opened the connection box on the furnace and disconnect some wiring and connect up the generator. There’s other ways, but the point is, there’s no plug.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telly Just an FYI - I used this transfer switch made for the purpose: TF151W Easy/Tran - Reliance Controls Corporation Simple, and works great. Amazon is not the place to buy it anymore, too expensive there now. Can get it online elsewhere for under $100. I disconnected the romex power feed to the furnace, diverted it over to a 4" steel box with cover that I installed near the furnace between joists on the attic floor. The whip that is attached to the transfer switch connects into the 4" box, and an additional piece of romex connects the 4"' box back to the furnace. Our furnaces are in the attic, hung from the rafters by steel straps to avoid putting vibration into the ceiling joists. They are upflow furnaces laid on their side, used as horizontal furnaces. They were made to be dual-use mounting. For a furnace in a closet or basement in upflow configuration, I would have instead mounted the transfer switch on the side of the furnace itself.

That seems like a fine solution, however, I’m wondering why, once you get to that point, you wouldn’t have just put a transfer switch in the main panel so you could just plug in the generator outside and have everything working (of course not all at one time). The whole house generators are sweet, no doubt, but those small Honda inverter generators are a great value for keeping the house running during an outage. I used mine with extension cords and swapping out appliances, but with a transfer switch, they’d be pretty convenient and a good value.

The main reason I ended up buying a whole house unit in my other house was because I needed a backup solution for my sump pump. If it went down, I’d have had a flooded basement. I needed something I could rely on when not home.

[ncbill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry1 That seems like a fine solution, however, I’m wondering why, once you get to that point, you wouldn’t have just put a transfer switch in the main panel so you could just plug in the generator outside and have everything working (of course not all at one time). The whole house generators are sweet, no doubt, but those small Honda inverter generators are a great value for keeping the house running during an outage. I used mine with extension cords and swapping out appliances, but with a transfer switch, they’d be pretty convenient and a good value. The main reason I ended up buying a whole house unit in my other house was because I needed a backup solution for my sump pump. If it went down, I’d have had a flooded basement. I needed something I could rely on when not home.

Just remember, the small inverter generators only output 120VAC and so here in the U.S. are only going to be able to power one side or the other of your panel.

[Jerry1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncbill Just remember, the small inverter generators only output 120VAC and so here in the U.S. are only going to be able to power one side or the other of your panel.

Good point. Would have to step up just a bit to get one that puts out 240v. Still, a good, relatively inexpensive option.

[523HRR]

We have a Generac 22kW standby generator here in hurricane-prone SW Florida. Went with Generac on electrician's recommendation because they apparently have the largest installed base, and so when there's a problem..."they show up". It runs on propane (1000 gal tank buried in the yard). Will run everything in the house. We use propane for 6 appliances: spa heater, fire pit, outdoor grill, tankless hot water, stovetop and the generator. Also, because of the crazy lightning storms we can get here in the summers, we also added (for not much extra expense) whole house surge protection: one on each of our 2 circuit panels, one on each of our 2 AC units, and one for our pool equipment.

[Big_Hitter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud SO, does anybody have one? What brand did you get? What is the output? and how much did it cost in total?

1) Yes I had one installed around 2005 after Hurricane Rita
2) Generac
3) 18KW (I think) - it basically ran everything but the oven and the upstairs AC unit, 3400 sq ft house
4) Install is generally about the cost of the unit. This was 15 years ago and I think I paid $8K all in.

[Vinnyfrombrooklyn]

After looking into this for a year I decided to get large portable generators. My mother lives across the street so I bought 2 harbor freight Predator 9000 watts.

I like the idea of being able to take one with us when we relocate out of NYC. We also don't have gas lines here so there is that. I got them on sale for 650. I am happy.

[airbornesapper]

After a storm about 5 years ago, we were without power for 11 days.... no generators around to buy for love nor money. After that....I wasn’t going to be caught-out again.. We thought about a whole house solution but decided for a myriad of reasons a transfer panel and portable generator was the way to go. We have had one outage since lasting 36 hours. Keeping gas on hand is the biggest issue, so I’ve moved on to a tri-fuel portable generator. My primary hook-up now is natural gas, with an option to use propane or gas. I just don’t see the point of the whole home system and the added maintenance burden...If we move again, we only leave a transfer panel... not the whole Shabang...

[kingkarmann]

We installed a propane fueled Generac 22kw whole house generator when we added the MIL suite.
It comes on after 15 seconds of the grid going down. Load modules manage the power distribution when the Generac kicks on. It easily powers the house.

[aubailey]

My suggestion is move below North Carolina. I am sure many people live in the North to be near relatives. If that is not the case I have no sympathy for you.

[meleana]

In our last 2600 square foot home we had a 16 KW Generac. Best thing we ever did because we had numerous major power outages yearly in the rural area that we lived. We had it for many years and if I recall it was around $10,000 with installation. We had everything on it except the washer/ dryer, dishwasher and and the central ac. It operated on propane. (but our home was heated with oil)

Now retired in an 1100 square foot cottage, despite the fact that the area we now live in rarely has power outages, we decided to get one anyway. We bought a Kohler 10k and everything is on it except our kitchen stove, the central ac and the clothes dryer. It operates off propane, which also heats our home. It cost us $7000 altogether with installation.

Both of these could run on gasoline but would need another part to convert it I believe.

The generator tests itself each week for 20 minutes. Hubby does the oil change and we have it serviced every few years by the company that installed it.

It can be somewhat loud but better than not having electricity. If we ever had an extended power outage we would manually shut the generator down overnight to give it a break and save on fuel.

[Arizona1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyking1 I posted up that my 2000 honda went through ~4 gallons in 50 hours, with a little break one day when my wife did not fill it before I got home from work. That was a 20 CF chest freezer, 25 CF 3 door fridge, and a few lights and charging things. It supposedly gets 8 hours at 25% load on the 1 gallon tank.

We’ve been traveling full time in our big motorhome For over 20 years now with at least half of it off grid In beautiful places. We have a combination of a solar / lithium battery system, 5500 watt Cummings Onan Whole house generator, and a Honda 2000 watt portable generator.
The solar is nice but it can’t take the place of a small
Generator unless you spend at least $8000 on lots of batteries. The Onan generator works great but uses quite a bit of fuel. The Honda lowers the output to what you need and is very quiet.
Rv manufacturer’s tried using Generac whole house generators in the early 2000s but they failed miserably. Most people ended up having to take them completely out and replace. Some RV’s had Kholers that worked great for years of constant use but we’re pretty loud.
As far as portable generators go the Honda’s are by far the best followed by Yamaha. Some of the portables say powered by Yamaha but the engine is the only thing Yamaha. The rest of the generator is Chinese junk. Generac portable generators aren’t very good either.
If I was worried about losing power in a house Because of our continually declining government climate, my first choice would be a portable Honda generator.

[TomJ]

Bought a natural gas powered Briggs & Stratton 16-20kW whole house backup system over 5 years ago because we went through one Houston area hurricane power outage; however, we'd only used it 1-2 hours a year since installation - and that was for thunderstorm related outages. But this last cold weather Texas grid outage has more than paid for the entire purchase. My wife and I had ours professionally installed with a Dual 200 Amp Whole House Transfer Switch, plus we have automatic switches making sure we don't try to run the clothes dryer and electric ovens at the same time as the AC system. Without the extra switches, you'll need to buy a more powerful generator with a higher watt capacity. Also, you can't just attach the generator to your existing natural gas line. Your utility company needs to install a special new higher flow natural gas regulator at your gas meter, and the generator itself must run off of a separate buried line with its own natural gas regulator. Generac, Kohler, Briggs & Stratton, Cummings, et. al. all make fine products, but I don't recommend anyone try to use them to cobble together a DIY whole house solution unless you're certain you know EVERYTHING that needs to be done and you're proficient at ALL of it. You'll most likely either pay someone who knows what they're doing to install it to start with, or you'll pay someone even more to fix what you didn't know about when you tried to do it yourself.

[travelover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncbill Just remember, the small inverter generators only output 120VAC and so here in the U.S. are only going to be able to power one side or the other of your panel.

One can wire the generator input plug so both legs of the panel are powered by the same in phase 120 volts AC. (You jump the X and Y terminals in the input plug) The 220 volt circuits won't work because there is no potential between the terminals, but most just flip off the 220 circuit breakers when using this technique. The downside is that if you have circuits powered by a common neutral, that common neutral is being asked to return for both legs, which were previously out of phase.

[Canoeboy]

Installed a Generac 22 KW whole house generator about two years ago when we started our house rebuild. It’s the largest air cooled model that is made by any brand. Have an automatic transfer switch to a 200 amp panel. Propane powered - we have a large tank that could run the generator for nearly a week even if the tank was on the low range of our auto fill program. Pay $125 for a service contract which includes annual change of oil, filter, spark plugs and an additional service call if needed. We have it set to test run on a monthly basis. Unit is WiFi connected.

Have had several power outages since installed, about 14 hours in total. It runs all connected loads well - HVAC, well, water heater, lighting, most outlets. We have a 2nd 200 amp panel for some high amp and non-critical loads that is not connected to the genset.

[Global Wizzo]

In Florida, hurricanes are the issue. I have a 2k Honda generator with a clean sine wave output. Good for the electronics. It will run two fridges with no issue and provide power for charging batteries.

One interesting alternative by Bob Bruninga who is into solar and alternate power is to use a Prius and adapt a power output to run the house instead of a generator. His thoughts are based on a used Prius at about 5K vs 10-25K for a generator installation.

As an amateur radio operator, I have several LiFePo batteries. The 30 amp hour ones can run 12vdc LED lights for extended outages. I do have capability to charge the batteries with portable solar panels if needed.

Take a look at the fuel consumption for a 20kw generator. Run it for an extended period and you can run up a significant fuel cost.

Lots of options, don’t break the bank.

[2177V]

Texas outage was unusual because both natural gas and electrical power failed and people got cold. I will be buying a Harbor Freight 4375 starting watts, 3500 running watts generator, mainly because it is rated 16 hours at 50% capacity using a 4 gallon gas tank. Only 106 lbs weight and it is just for my wife and I. Larger family should consider a larger size.

Little under-powered for a whole house but I want it small enough for camping too. 3500 continuous watts should be sufficient for cooking, portable electrical heaters or electric blankets. I will buy 75 foot electrical cords since I do not believe in the complexity of using my house electrical wiring. For under $500, this makes sense since I may not use it that often as an emergency backup where I live in Northern California. The next size up is the 6500 starting watts, 5500 continuous watts but weighs 165 lbs which is too big for camping for 2.

[Telly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry1 That seems like a fine solution, however, I’m wondering why, once you get to that point, you wouldn’t have just put a transfer switch in the main panel so you could just plug in the generator outside and have everything working (of course not all at one time). The whole house generators are sweet, no doubt, but those small Honda inverter generators are a great value for keeping the house running during an outage. I used mine with extension cords and swapping out appliances, but with a transfer switch, they’d be pretty convenient and a good value.

For site and equipment reasons... Outside the wall of our breaker box is an insecure location for a portable generator. The breaker box does not have any spare positions to put in another breaker as a generator input feed. The aforementioned L1 L2 feed situation. Trying to wire up an external transfer switch box and breakers isn't worth it for our breaker box. I was looking for a relatively low-cost setup, in case we sell this house, I can take the Honda 2k gen with us, I can remove the furnace transfer switch too. We run the Honda in a secure location off the rear of our house.

To take care of possible carbon monoxide intrusion into the house along with the cord entry, no cords enter. I created a pass-through-the-wall inlet. On the outside wall, I put a 30 amp inlet box with twist-lock connector, a 4" steel box aligned with it inside the house, and rigid conduit parts to connect the two via a ~7/8" hole through the outside wall. The 4" box inside has a quad 15/20 amp receptacle. This pass-through point is centrally-located, so it is easy to run extension cords from it to loads, including a cord up to the furnace transfer switch.

If we were to sell this house, it would be easy for me to remove everything I installed, so no realtors or "home inspectors" (hahahaha) would be aghast at... "OMG, I opened this box-thingy, and it has electrically metal pokey parts sticking out, that'l electrocute little bobby and sally!!!" Anything that is electrical in nature and is uncommon scares people. I postulate that the level of science knowledge, and knowledge in general of how things work, has declined greatly in the general population, as compared to the 1950s/60s. Our children buck that trend greatly! That will be part of my legacy

[folivier]

If you're mainly concerned about not freezing to death then consider a portable kerosene or propane heater, with proper ventilation of course. Either fuel would be easy to keep long term and the heaters could be used without any electricity.