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08-01-2017, 09:17 AM
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#21
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound
All dictionaries have are circular definitions anyway.
Can I toss you a Russian dictionary and expect you to learn to speak the language?
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I can read some cyrillic, had to learn russian in elementary school 4th grade on, mandatory language. Highly doubt anyone can learn russian from a dictionary, gotta have a teacher, even so the pronunciation can drive one buggy.
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08-01-2017, 09:28 AM
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#22
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ls99
Highly doubt anyone can learn russian from a dictionary, gotta have a teacher, even so the pronunciation can drive one buggy.
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We attempted, unsuccessfully, to learn a couple basic words in Czech, Hungarian, and Polish........Bulgarian*, where we'll be in the Fall, "Fuhgeddaboudit".
*"Hello", to our ears, will likely be a dozen unrelated consonants.
__________________
"Exit, pursued by a bear."
The Winter's Tale, William Shakespeare
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08-01-2017, 10:03 AM
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#23
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: The Great Wide Open
Posts: 3,789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayHare
To answer the original question, I suspect it was a learning exercise for the AI, or for its designers. One way a bot can learn how humans interact, as well as how to interact with humans, is to observe message exchanges in social media. This board, being among the more civil ones online, may be a reasonable place from which to learn some basic manners.
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I also suspect Siri and Alexa, and whatever other listening/responding devices that on the market, as nothing more than input sources to create future equations, algorithms, and programming for AI. Think about all the information that is communicated during the day/night freely, and the thought processes that are observed. Big Sister is here.
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08-01-2017, 11:19 AM
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#24
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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There have been some significant progresses made in individual areas of AI such as expert systems, autonomous vehicle piloting, speech recognition, etc... These are individual tasks, which a computer can do very well, often better than a human. But these are just a more elevated form of automation, more sophistication levels from welding robots, or smart conveyor belts in production automation.
Even Watson, the IBM machine that won at Jeopardy was just a sophisticated database search algorithm. The question that it failed at tells more about the underlying software than the ones it could answer.
They still do not know how to teach a computer to think. They don't know how humans think.
All animals, even ones that are not self-aware, know about self-preservation. If a computer program ever achieves self-awareness, will it also worry about self-preservation? Will it worry about being terminated, getting infected by a virus, or its hardware turned off, its powerline cut-off. That's hard to do if that piece of software does not have the requisite sensory inputs to know the world around itself.
Then, will it worry about its RAM chips failing, its CPU getting flaky, its hard drives getting full? Is it going to reboot itself when necessary, write patches/updates for itself, or call in its programmer/creator for help?
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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08-01-2017, 11:23 AM
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#25
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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And if we give a piece of software access to a video camera for eyes, and a microphone for ears, a speaker for a mouth, I think it will be a very long time that this software can have the curiosity of this 8-year old girl in the French movie "Le Papillon" (The Butterfly), 2002.
There's an English subtitle in the following video, but following is the lyrics.
Le papillon / The Butterfly
Pourquoi les poules pondent des oeufs? / Why do chickens lay eggs?
Pour que les oeufs fassent des poules. / So that eggs make chickens.
Pourquoi les amoureux s'embrassent? / Why do lovers kiss?
C'est pour que les pigeons roucoulent. / So that the pigeons coo.
Pourquoi les jolies fleurs se fanent? / Why do the pretty flowers fade?
Parce que ca fait partie du charme. / Because it's part of the charm.
Pourquoi le diable et le bon Dieu? / Why the devil and the good god?
C'est pour faire parler les curieux. / It's to make the curious talk.
Pourquoi le feu brule le bois? / Why does fire burn wood?
C'est pour bien rechauffer nos coeurs or. / It's to warm our golden hearts.
Pourquoi la mer se retire? / Why does the ocean's tide go out?
C'est pour qu'on lui dise "Encore." / It's so that we'll ask it 'again'.
Pourquoi le soleil disparait? / Why does the sun disappear?
Pour l'autre partie du decor. / For the other part of the decoration.
Pourquoi le diable et le bon Dieu? / Why the devil and the good god?
C'est pour faire parler les curieux. / It's to make the curious talk.
Pourquoi le loup mange l'agneau? / Why does a wolf eat a lamb?
Parce qu'il faut bien se nourrir. / Because it needs to nourish itself well.
Pourquoi le lievre et la tortue? / Why the hare and the tortoise?
Parce que rien ne sert de courir. / Because there's no use in running.
Pourquoi les anges ont-ils des ailes? / Why do angels have wings?
Pour nous faire croire au Pere Noel. / To make us believe in Santa Claus.
Pourquoi le diable et le bon Dieu? / Why the devil and the good god?
C'est pour faire parler les curieux. / It's to make the curious talk.
Ca t'a plu, le petit voyage? / Did you like the small trip?
Ah oui beaucoup / Ah yes, a lot
Vous avez vu des belles choses? / Have you seen pretty things?
J'aurais bien voulu voir des sauterelles / I would love to see grasshoppers
Des sauterelles? Pourquoi des sauterelles / Grasshoppers? Why grasshoppes?
Et des libellules aussi. / And dragonflies too.
A la prochaine fois, d'accord. / OK, next time
D'accord. / Agree
Je peux te demander quelque chose? / Can I ask you something?
Quoi encore? / What more?
On continue mais cette fois-ci c'est toi qui chantes. / Let's continue, but you sing this time
Pas question. / No question
Tu te pleures. / You cry
Non, mais non. / No, not true
Alors, c'est le dernier couplet. / OK, this is the last verse
Tu ne crois pas que tu pousses un peu le pourchas? / Do you know you push it a bit too far?
Pourquoi notre coeur fait tic-tac? / Why do our heart go tic-tac?
Parce que la pluie fait flic flac. / It's because the rain goes flic-flac
Pourquoi le temps passe si vite? / Why does time go so fast?
Parce que le vent lui rend visite. / Because the wind comes visit it
Pourquoi tu me prends par la main? / Why do you take my hand?
Parce qu'avec toi je suis bien. / Because I feel well with you.
Pourquoi le diable et le bon Dieu? / Why the devil and the good god?
C'est pour faire parler les curieux. / It's to make the curious talk.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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08-01-2017, 11:46 AM
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#26
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cottage Grove
Posts: 212
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08-01-2017, 12:02 PM
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#27
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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I agree with the commenters on that article.
Why did FB turn off the machines? Why not let the buggy programs run on, generate more gibberish and crash themselves? What is there to be afraid of?
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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08-01-2017, 12:08 PM
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#28
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo2
We attempted, unsuccessfully, to learn a couple basic words in Czech, Hungarian, and Polish........Bulgarian*, where we'll be in the Fall, "Fuhgeddaboudit".
*"Hello", to our ears, will likely be a dozen unrelated consonants.
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For "good Morning" in Hungarian say: Jo reggelt. If you read it the English/American way it will come out unrecognizable. For Americans, the first word to be pronounced correctly would write: Yo.
__________________
There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
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08-01-2017, 12:09 PM
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#29
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound
I agree with the commenters on that article.
Why did FB turn off the machines? Why not let the buggy programs run on, generate more gibberish and crash themselves? What is there to be afraid of?
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They might conspire to eradicate the inferior carbon based units. Then replace with silicon architecture.
__________________
There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
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08-01-2017, 12:14 PM
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#30
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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In all the software that I have used or heard about, when a program produces something that is new, unusual, or beyond what its programmer/creator tried to implement, it is usually a bad result, an unexpected gotcha or glitch, or a bug. Or it is a devious side effect (from a bug) that was difficult to foretell from the beginning. Needless to say, it is generally bad and undesirable. Sometimes it can be amusing.
There has not been a program that develops more capabilities than what its programmer puts in. Yes, it can go out acquiring more data, such as surfing the Web to get info to fill up its hard drives, but self-developing new analytical methods to operate on that data? No.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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08-01-2017, 12:27 PM
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#31
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 11,078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound
In all the software that I have used or heard about, when a program produces something that is new, unusual, or beyond what its programmer/creator implements, it is usually a bad result, an unexpected gotcha or glitch, or a bug.
There has not been a program that develops more capabilities than what its programmer puts in. Yes, it can go out acquiring more data, such as surfing the Web to get info to fill up its hard drives, but self-developing new analytical methods to operate on that data? No.
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I'm an old dinosaur but that's my experience. Outside of the occasional routine that modified itself at runtime(discouraged but sometimes necessary) the code was what it compiled into.
I'm not an AI expert but what I've seen done in the past was fairly basic. Sure it's better and will continue to improve but I'm not sure how advanced the technology is today.
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08-01-2017, 12:35 PM
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#32
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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I recall in a lecture 40 years ago, a professor was musing about how one could get a computer to be creative. The only way he could think of was to have it generate random thoughts. Then, it must know to apply known rules and heuristics to filter out the ones that simply would not work.
As an example, he said "it's similar to you guys sitting here and happening to see a beautiful blonde walking by. Your mind generates all kinds of thought, but you know what is illegal and immoral, and so you don't do it".
I think some AI researchers have tried this, and wonder how far they have got. Most likely, the software would generate zillions of bytes of gibberish then crash in a matter of fraction of a second.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG
I'm an old dinosaur but that's my experience. Outside of the occasional routine that modified itself at runtime(discouraged but sometimes necessary) the code was what it compiled into...
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Self-modifying code was something I did too, back in the days where magnetic core memory (not even RAM) was sparse, and that allowed the software to be smaller using some tricks. It tends to be buggy, and the code will not be ROM'able. Nobody does this anymore.
But anyway, self-modifying code is something that the programmer himself preplans and implements. The software itself is not smart.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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08-01-2017, 01:16 PM
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#33
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,130
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In the recent news...
Quote:
Facebook shut down an artificial intelligence engine after developers discovered that the AI had created its own unique language that humans can’t understand. Researchers at the Facebook AI Research Lab (FAIR) found that the chatbots had deviated from the script and were communicating in a new language developed without human input. It is as concerning as it is amazing – simultaneously a glimpse of both the awesome and horrifying potential of AI.
Artificial Intelligence is not sentient—at least not yet. It may be someday, though – or it may approach something close enough to be dangerous.
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonybra.../#7538873d292c
Here I thought Facebook prided themselves as in the forefront of the future, but seems a bit jealous or threatened by progress in this situation .
__________________
Have you ever seen a headstone with these words
"If only I had spent more time at work" ... from "Busy Man" sung by Billy Ray Cyrus
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08-01-2017, 01:31 PM
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#34
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound
I recall in a lecture 40 years ago, a professor was musing about how one could get a computer to be creative. The only way he could think of was to have it generate random thoughts.
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Sounds like the infinite monkey theorem...can reproducing Shakespeare be far behind?
__________________
"Exit, pursued by a bear."
The Winter's Tale, William Shakespeare
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08-01-2017, 04:14 PM
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#35
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easysurfer
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Another poster brought this up in an earlier post. Apparently you missed it.
Here's a recent article on this same story:
Facebook didn’t kill its language-building AI because it was too smart—it was actually too dumb.
https://qz.com/1043365/facebook-didn...ally-too-dumb/
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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08-01-2017, 05:36 PM
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#36
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound
Another poster brought this up in an earlier post. Apparently you missed it.
Here's a recent article on this same story:
Facebook didn’t kill its language-building AI because it was too smart—it was actually too dumb.
https://qz.com/1043365/facebook-didn...ally-too-dumb/
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Apparently ...
__________________
Have you ever seen a headstone with these words
"If only I had spent more time at work" ... from "Busy Man" sung by Billy Ray Cyrus
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08-01-2017, 05:38 PM
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#37
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo2
We attempted, unsuccessfully, to learn a couple basic words in Czech, Hungarian, and Polish........Bulgarian*, where we'll be in the Fall, "Fuhgeddaboudit".
*"Hello", to our ears, will likely be a dozen unrelated consonants.
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+1
http://www.brooklyneagle.com/article...ns-come:laugh:
__________________
Withdrawal Rate currently zero, Pension 137 % of our spending, Wasted 5 years of my prime working extra for a safe withdrawal rate. I can live like a King for a year, or a Prince for the rest of my life. I will stay on topic, I will stay on topic, I will stay on topic
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08-01-2017, 05:40 PM
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#38
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,368
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__________________
"Exit, pursued by a bear."
The Winter's Tale, William Shakespeare
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08-01-2017, 05:44 PM
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#39
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,838
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__________________
Withdrawal Rate currently zero, Pension 137 % of our spending, Wasted 5 years of my prime working extra for a safe withdrawal rate. I can live like a King for a year, or a Prince for the rest of my life. I will stay on topic, I will stay on topic, I will stay on topic
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