Would you buy in a golf course development?

[aja8888]

We live in The Woodlands, Texas and there are six (?) golf courses here and one is a PGA rated tournament course. Membership is bout $24,000 for the Woodlands courses and there are two other, named Carlton Woods, which are really exclusive (don't know the membership cost but I hear it's $100K to join.

Golf is certainly not dying here, and the courses are quite busy. I quit playing several years ago and cancelled my membership but maintain the social one (less cost).

Homes on the courses range from mid 100's of thousands to $millions$.

[ShokWaveRider]

Are Golf Course closures related to the affluence of the community, county or parish that the course is in? For example if one googles the countries poorest states, which by definition are LCOL states, are the closures more in those than others? Just wondering. Our county and those in close proximity are not particularly LCOL and the courses here seem to be thriving. TPC Sawgrass, WGV, LPGA and others have no issues with memberships.

[CaliKid]

I am having this same dilemma. As mentioned in another thread we have been looking in Vegas as possible next destination. There are tons of million dollar+ (and even multi-million dollar) homes on a closed golf course. It is amazing to look at it as everything is still there - cart paths, ball washers, bathroom buildings, holes that used to have water, sand traps, and a whole bunch of brown grass. There is presently a lawsuit going on as a developer is trying to develop it. So one day these people have golf course front homes, then they have brown grass and who knows what else (homeless people?) for 5 years and then maybe one day big houses! One house listing had pictures with green grass out back which I was pretty sure was 5 years old. Look up pictures of Badlands golf club or Queensridge on Google. I walked by the course last time we were there and it definitely caused me to think twice about golf course homes. One development, in particular, is on a second rate golf course which seems to me to be ripe to have the same thing happen to it.

[Packman]

We live in a golf course community in AZ, but not on the course. The lot premiums run from $100k to $200k. When the base price of home is $250,000 to about $500,000. So lot premiums can exceed 50% of the cost of the home. Doesn't seem logical to me. Then there is the occasional broken window, and the noise of mowers and golfers at 5 AM. I wonder if homeowner's insurance is higher if you live on the course? What if you get a golf ball in the head while on your patio? Lastly, in Arizona, there is always the continual issue of running out of water. I'll take our view of the open desert instead.

[W2R]

I'm surprised. If golf is declining in popularity, we didn't know anything about it. But then, we have not played golf since we retired, for one reason or another.

Personally I'd love to live in a golf course community, if I didn't already live in the perfect home for me. I have never lived in one, but they sound peaceful, green, spacious, well kept, civilized, and quiet to me and those are great attributes for a neighborhood to have. I love the idea of being able to get around the immediate neighborhood in a golf cart.

[COcheesehead]

All the negativity in this thread seems to be opposite of our reality. The community in which we live is looked at as the premier neighborhood in town and the one you want to live in if you can afford it. The course is almost secondary though it is always ranked as the number one public course in the state and has a constant flow of women’s groups, kids and of course men. It also attracts weddings and corporate events. I really think it’s like most real estate in that it’s really localized as to the value of the property.

[Aerides]

There are some places in S. Fla where older courses are closing, so developments built around them are in litigation over the land use plans.

Most of these though aren't where the course is part of the development. Interestingly I read an article recently that said retirement communities are built around golf...but not really because retirees like to play golf, but they REALLY like driving golf carts around lol.

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Music Lover I agree. Golf is dying...the young people aren't replacing the older folk that are dropping out. Course around here that used to have waiting lists and initiation fees are now advertising for members.

Not extreme enough. Not fast enough.


I got frustrated in the 90s during the explosion in popularity when they jacked fees through the roof and the courses were crowded. Perhaps why I lost my passion as I really stopped playing frequently back then.

[Elbata]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliKid I am having this same dilemma. As mentioned in another thread we have been looking in Vegas as possible next destination. There are tons of million dollar+ (and even multi-million dollar) homes on a closed golf course. It is amazing to look at it as everything is still there - cart paths, ball washers, bathroom buildings, holes that used to have water, sand traps, and a whole bunch of brown grass. There is presently a lawsuit going on as a developer is trying to develop it. So one day these people have golf course front homes, then they have brown grass and who knows what else (homeless people?) for 5 years and then maybe one day big houses! One house listing had pictures with green grass out back which I was pretty sure was 5 years old. Look up pictures of Badlands golf club or Queensridge on Google. I walked by the course last time we were there and it definitely caused me to think twice about golf course homes. One development, in particular, is on a second rate golf course which seems to me to be ripe to have the same thing happen to it.

Recently golfed "Bear's Best" in Vegas. I could not believe the homes along the golf course. Millions and millions of buckaroos. Just hope the golf course remains viable.

We looked in Palm Desert/Palm Springs area and the RE agent said a lot of golf courses are having difficulty. Just as another commenter mentioned, the youngsters just aren't taking up golf.

[Badger]

If you move into a golf course community and it starts to go down hill then it may eventually be used as building sites for more homes.


I would first study the area closely and buy in the best location regardless of being in a golf community and then join a country club you like.


Cheers!

[ShokWaveRider]

In theory, if GC communities for whatever reasons deteriorate and close, it will make the better, well run and not deteriorating ones worth more to live in.

[Scuba]

Interesting responses, thanks. We are not golfers so the only reason we would buy on one is the expansive views. We do not like seeing other nearby dwellings as part of our view, and the best way to avoid that in the Palm Springs area seems to be buying on a golf course. However, we are concerned about the risk.

We are familiar with a development on St. Thomas called Mahogany Run. It was beautiful before the 2017 hurricanes devastated the area. The clubhouse and golf course were owned by a third party and were significantly damaged by Hurricane Irma. The third party owner has done nothing to rehabilitate the course or rebuild the clubhouse, and the HOA is struggling to fund all the repairs needed to the homes and condos in the development so cannot at this time buy it back from the third party owner. We looked at condos in that development in 2018, but decided it was too risky. Even if another hurricane doesn’t hit for a long time, property values are inherently tied to having an operational golf course and clubhouse. Without these amenities, we were concerned that values may fall in a big way.

Probably won’t buy a second home anytime soon anyway as the market is a sellers market now. Plus, we like flexibility and traveling to different places vs being tied to one.

[Aerides]

Another factor - even if the course stays open and active: If your home is near a tee, expect to hear expletives and other chatter with frequency. If your home is on the fairway, be aware of bad shots coming near your house.

[COcheesehead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerides Another factor - even if the course stays open and active: If your home is near a tee, expect to hear expletives and other chatter with frequency. If your home is on the fairway, be aware of bad shots coming near your house.

Nah. We don’t hear anything from the course. The snack cart however does drive by frequently, so if you need a hot dog....

[Midpack]

I love golf, have played for 52 years now - but I would not buy a home on a golf course. Golf participation is declining, so there will be pressure on homeowners to contribute more to maintaining the course through play, monthly minimums and/or HOA fees, etc. If the course your home is on closes, your property value will suffer. And others may disagree, but I like to play a variety of courses, I don't want to feel an obligation to play any one course - even if I live in the community. YMMV

There's a golf course community about a mile away from me that was designed by Jack Kidwell & Michael Hurdzan. It was gorgeous and very well maintained when it opened in 1997 (during the Tiger era) and it was a destination course. But in time it began to decline, wasn't maintained to the same high standards, and became an albatross around homeowners necks. It was a private course for the first few years, then private/public, now I think it's strictly public. A few years ago they basically let the GM, the golf pro and almost everyone else go, and the decline worsened. Homeowners were panicked and eating more and more expense. Last year they sold the entire operation to Billy Casper Golf for $650K - about 1/10th of what it cost to build in 1997, and about 1/4th what the local CC (a middling course at best) was on the market for a couple years ago. Not sure how the story ends yet...

[brett]

Never.

Several courses have closed where we live. Some homes on the course dropped $40K on the announcement. Dropped again when it because public that some multi story townhouses and apts were part of the plan.

An HOA where the golf course ownership/operation is part of the community finance is even a worse investment.

Take a look at the number of golf course closures in NA over each of the past several years.

[RetMD21]

We don't golf but may of the nicer communities that we have looked at in AZ have integrated golf courses. We might end up in a GC community hoping for the best which might be letting the course revert to desert when the cost of water precludes golf operations.

[Breedlove]

Golf is struggling in South Houston ( Fort Bend County ) Pecan Grove CC was a members only country club but now is turning to public . Failed to get enough members.

[Scuba]

Yeah I did a bit more research on this topic and apparently it’s enough of a concern in Palm Springs that the City is trying to pass some regulations requiring homeowner input on land use when a golf course in a community ceases operations and/or limiting what developers can do with the land. If we ever get serious about shopping for real estate in the desert, we will definitely do our homework. I can’t imagine all golf courses will go away in our lifetime, but apparently there are 123 golf courses in the Coachella Valley and not nearly enough demand to keep them all going. So many of the nicer residential developments are centered around golf courses.

[Midpack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba Yeah I did a bit more research on this topic and apparently it’s enough of a concern in Palm Springs that the City is trying to pass some regulations requiring homeowner input on land use when a golf course in a community ceases operations and/or limiting what developers can do with the land. If we ever get serious about shopping for real estate in the desert, we will definitely do our homework. I can’t imagine all golf courses will go away in our lifetime, but apparently there are 123 golf courses in the Coachella Valley and not nearly enough demand to keep them all going. So many of the nicer residential developments are centered around golf courses.

Building on a golf course was a safe bet for many years, not so any more. And they won’t all go away, the top tier golf courses (many private) will hold on better (there are always rich and expense account folks who value exclusivity) and the thinning will go on as long as the decline continues - who knows where demand bottoms out. Many of our generations pastimes are slowly fading and won’t be as popular in a few decades, e.g. golf, tennis, sailing, etc. The median age of folks playing golf and sailing has already increased by 20 years in the past 50 years, and you know how that ends...