Young people and wages

[Time2]

I watched this video this morning and read many comments.

The gist of it is, young people are quitting work because of poor pay and bad working conditions. I'm not in complete agreement with the video spokesman, but the comments sure line up with his view.
For most of my life I thought we were living on a lower middle class income. It wasn't until after I retired and massaged my income numbers (multiplied by inflation and compared our average to median income) I then realized we were slightly above median income over our life time.
It has me wondering if things are as bad as the comments under the video make it seem.
Earlier when the $15 an hour idea rolled out (10 yrs ago?), I was thinking that seemed like a lot, I wasn't making that much. Wife and I were self employed and had a 75 to 80 hour work week, so between two of use easily worked three 40 hr jobs. So our income was OK, but still not all that much above median household income.
Are things really that much more difficult than the early 80s when I made $14,000 or late 90s early 2000s when I made $16,000?



Admittedly I had better years after each of these periods. But even during the lower pay years, we still were saving money.
Is working as bad as the young people are saying?

 

[njhowie]

Louis is a God when it comes to the Apple repair world and being a fighter for Right to Repair. I believe Apple's announcement this week of now providing tools and allowing for individuals to do DIY repairs of their own devices is a direct result of his efforts.

However, when Louis rambles about the stock market, the economy, and such things, he is just rambling. He is not an economist nor an accomplished investor. He should stick to his area of expertise - Apple repairs.

 

[Time2]

Louis is a God when it comes to the Apple repair world and being a fighter for Right to Repair. I believe Apple's announcement this week of now providing tools and allowing for individuals to do DIY repairs of their own devices is a direct result of his efforts.

However, when Louis rambles about the stock market, the economy, and such things, he is just rambling. He is not an economist nor an accomplished investor. He should stick to his area of expertise - Apple repairs.

And I said, I'm not in complete agreement with what he said, but the comments are what prompted my post, I see this attitude reddit about how hard it is to eek out a living. Is it really harder now than 30 years ago?

 

[Sunset]

And I said, I'm not in complete agreement with what he said, but the comments are what prompted my post, I see this attitude reddit about how hard it is to eek out a living. Is it really harder now than 30 years ago?

I think everyone young person has worries about the future and finding a rewarding path seems quite difficult.

One of the nice things about being old, is not stressing over working more and getting ahead.

I recall when young, I considered working on an oil well, as they got paid well, trick was to keep your hands and arms.

These days expectations are different, now kids expect to have a $1,000/yr phone an expense I never had. They also can see on the phone all the riches people pick up easily, the envy factor. In the old days, I could only be envious of folks I actually knew or on my street, and nobody was much better off.

If times are tough for them, join the army !! That was always my backup plan

 

[razztazz]

Here's a real life example or at least as close as I could get.

I know two people, my age. One has a son early 30's, went to college, computer background, lives with a roommate. Doesn't seem to make a lot of money hence the roomie. This is the Minneapolis area. Another has a son late 20's, college grad, computer background. just found out today, he is living at home and paying "a stipend" to live there. I took that to mean it's far below any real life rent amount. I assume he is working but obviously not making any real money.

I know the parents of both but I do not know the kids personally. I cannot believe these kids are lazy or sleaze bags, or simply moochers by nature. I am beginning to believe there must be something to what we're hearing about jobs and work and it's not because everybody under 40 woke up one day recently and decided to be lazy. It wasn't that way 100-120 years ago with the blue collar guys.

 

[Katsmeow]

One problem is that many jobs (particularly retail) mostly hire people as part-time and generally don't let them work full time hours. And, there is never a regular schedule. So you might work and close the store one day and then open it on another. It is hard to make appointments or do anything because you often don't know when you will work. Also, even if on the schedule, if the employer doesn't need you then your shift may get cancelled.

The dollars per hour may be acceptable but I think many of us tend to think of people regularly working 40 hours a week and it was stable. They may work 25 hours one week and 35 the next. Some people, of course, want to work lower hours. But many would rather work full time. And, even taking a second job can be difficult when you never know your schedule.

Also, for many people there is no such thing as sick leave or vacation. There is just taking off unpaid time.

One of my kids had a degree in computer science. They have said that a few people in their class got the great career type jobs with major companies. But, most got lower paid programming jobs and several years later are still working them, still making close to what they started at. They don't find it easy to move up into those great jobs.

It is easy to say that people shouldn't work those jobs. Get a better job. But, the kind of jobs that are career type, full-time jobs are not available for everyone.

And, even if you are one those able to get a full time hourly job the pay is often low enough that you really can't live on it. Maybe you have a couple of roommates and manage to eke by. Or maybe you can live at home with parents.

 

[Magus]

It’s a combination of a lot of things but yes real wages for the bottom half of Americans dropped from 1990-2016, combined with social media, increased welfare net, and different attitudes, and now very high inflation in a number of very important categories to working class is more than eating up high nominal wage increases. It makes me feel less bad about paying $400k in taxes this year

Katsmeow- that was true a few years ago but it’s easy to get full time 38-40+ steady hours a week now if you are decent employee. My company I just left went from 50/50 to 75% FT in the last two years and we’d be happy to convert more but the rest just want part time. Shifts aren’t fixed but more so than before and most managers are being flexible.

 

[Philliefan33]

I think it is harder than it used to be for young people without an education or what I will call “mis-educated”. Good paying blue collar, full-time manufacturing jobs that can support a family seem to be scarcer now than forty years ago.

I’ve seen both ends of the spectrum. My daughters and each of their husbands have BS or graduate degrees. Each is employed full time and very well compensated. We are proud of them and realize that we are fortunate. However, they were each fortunate to be born into a family that valued them, valued education, and could provide opportunities. They also had the smarts to be able to do well in engineering and science, so their degrees helped them get well-paying jobs.

At my summer gig I encounter a different situation. There are ~30 year olds working two or three jobs tending bar or waitressing as well as working on the river. Hourly wages are low so they depend on tips. Some have degrees, most don’t. They are working hard but living paycheck to paycheck. I bet most of them would jump at the chance to get a full-time job making $20/hr but they can’t find them.

 

[Scuba]

Our niece is 31 and nephew is 27. Niece and her DH have PhD’s in physical therapy. Nephew double majored in sports journalism and economics and didn’t go to grad school. Both have very well-paying jobs and neither ever lived at home after leaving for college. Both worked part time during their education, allowing them to limit or completely avoid student loans.

Neither of their parents is college-educated. So it is still very possible to make one’s own way in the world, but it takes motivation, a strong work ethic, and the willingness to delay instant gratification. Both drive older vehicles and neither owns a home yet, but they are both maxing out their 401K’s. We are proud of them!

 

[marko]

When I started full time work at an entry level job in 1972 the minimum wage was $1.60, equivalent to $10.60 today.
I was making $3.00 an hour, equal to about $20 an hour now with a take home of about $84. $15 an hour today was about $2.25 in 1972 wages.

The difference now is that the narrative seems to be that flipping burgers at McD should provide you with a 'living wage'. Nobody expected such jobs to 'make a living' back then and shouldn't expect to now.

My nieces and nephew (late 20's) make about $150K each, equivalent to about $25K in 1972 which IIRC was a darn good pay, as it is now. Of course, growing up in a world where everyone got a trophy, they have much higher expectations than I ever did.

 

[tb001]

The other factor I haven’t seen brought up yet is student loans. Many of these kids are graduating with 100k+ in debt. Combine that with $$$ housing and it’s very hard to get ahead.

I’m hopeful that the wfh movement will give the next generation more low cost options for housing. Most of the available jobs in my field were in the Bay Area or Boston. Not easy places to start saving.

 

[Closet_Gamer]

I can be a bit hard hearted on this topic: life is rough. Always has been. You need to work hard and overtime raise your skill level so you can add more value to have an above average life style.

Every employer I know is scrambling to find talent. If you have a STEM degree/skillset and aren't getting a better job there is something amiss. The global competition for coders (particularly India and Eastern Europe) keeps something of a lid on prices but my experience sourcing talent is that its full employment for technical people right now.

If you have a non-STEM degree and are willing to work hard, there are marketing, social media, sales and operations jobs everywhere. I have over 100 open jobs in my business right now. We can't fill entry level sales jobs. These are good jobs that pay well to start with lots of upside in a great company. Every resignation results in an HR panic-attack and exit interview. The war-for-talent is a company rallying cry right now.

No degree? This is harder because of inflated education requirements for entry level jobs. But even there, its full employment opportunities right now. My brother can't fill union, well benefited jobs in his grocery store right now. Truck drivers are in huge demand. Many companies have training programs for skilled front-line work. This isn't glamorous work but its well paid and has progression upside without changing employers.

The college loans issue is a very sad, generational lesson in motion. The next generation will be far more circumspect and demanding in terms of the cost of college.

Net it all out though, and I think my brother's family shows that its still quite possible. He has four kids:

Oldest went to a second-tier state school, got a polisci degree, struggled in her 20s but grew out of it. She's now got a great marketing job and is saving money like a machine.

Second went to a little ivy and got a degree in nuclear engineering. Great job working for a Navy contractor. Got the company to pay for his Masters degree. Full pension. Cruising 12 years into his career.

Third went to a big state university. Got a degree in genetic counseling. Can't turn away jobs fast enough. Saving money and just built an apartment over her garage to use as a full time Air BnB. The rent on that now pays for the entire mortgage on the property.

Fourth went to a big state university and got a communications degree. Struggled a bit on graduation. Is now in a fast growing company and has management responsibility for an Indian out-sourced team at the age of 27.

End of rant.