Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-03-2021, 02:55 PM   #141
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,501
look at the problem from the other side... not trying to reduce the tax bump for your heirs, but trying to prep for the tax bump from being an heir.

my attempt was to roth convert to move asset to never tax... thus reducing the tax bump
bingybear is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-03-2021, 02:58 PM   #142
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Tampa
Posts: 9,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retire2023 View Post
+1
I record daily and check all accounts online as well. Have caught fraud a couple of times and gotten it corrected before the merchandise was even delivered to the fraudster. Hoping the police were there when they were "getting" the fly fishing gear ordered on OUR card!

Really doesn't take much time to do, but then being in accounting...numbers are my thing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by finnski1 View Post
That's some serious discipline.
I reconcile my visa statements , checking etc, about once every 2 months or so. It does take me an hour or 2 but I enjoy doing it and still capture just about everything since I put everything I can on CC and checking account.
Put it all in my spreadsheets which I have diligently been doing since 2012.
I'm a bit of a numbers nerd so actually enjoy categorizing, noting year over year deltas etc.
My background is also in accounting, although more of my career was in financial analysis.
I do enjoy budgeting and tracking expenses. I love "playing" with numbers in general.
As @retire23 mentioned, I also have captured multiple fraud attempts over the years on a timely basis, as I check my cc expenses daily.
When I decided to cut down some expenses from the budget, my detailed analysis made it easy for the decision making process.
__________________
TGIM
Dtail is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 03:23 PM   #143
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtail View Post
My background is also in accounting, although more of my career was in financial analysis.
I do enjoy budgeting and tracking expenses. I love "playing" with numbers in general.
As @retire23 mentioned, I also have captured multiple fraud attempts over the years on a timely basis, as I check my cc expenses daily.
When I decided to cut down some expenses from the budget, my detailed analysis made it easy for the decision making process.

Yes that is a good reason to check daily. What I did was just have Bank of America send me an email alert every time my credit card is used. I then check the emails and if it looks good just delete the emails and do my bimonthly spread sheet thing.
finnski1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 03:23 PM   #144
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtail View Post
I record every expense every day, except on vacation. Takes a grand total of 5 minutes daily.
Same here. When I order things from Amazon I write them individually on my sheet, bracket it with the word Amazon beside it. Allows me to check my credit card statement before paying.
Rushmore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 03:29 PM   #145
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
SecondCor521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boise
Posts: 6,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by bingybear View Post
look at the problem from the other side... not trying to reduce the tax bump for your heirs, but trying to prep for the tax bump from being an heir.

my attempt was to roth convert to move asset to never tax... thus reducing the tax bump
I've read the above several times but still don't understand.

From the heir's point of view, if they know they're going to face a 10 year SECURE Act tax bump, they probably want to be Roth converting now, ahead of time.

They could get stuck, if they have a lot of Roth converting of their own to do and then get hit with a SECURE Act 10 year tax bump...but that just means they're going to be in higher tax brackets and nothing they can really do. First world problem for sure.

Still don't understand the killing Roth conversion comment...everything we've said since seems to suggest Roth conversions are a better idea after the SECURE Act, not worse.
__________________
"At times the world can seem an unfriendly and sinister place, but believe us when we say there is much more good in it than bad. All you have to do is look hard enough, and what might seem to be a series of unfortunate events, may in fact be the first steps of a journey." Violet Baudelaire.
SecondCor521 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 03:33 PM   #146
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 33,382
Being forgetful and lazy, I am happy to let Quicken download expenses for me (we are nearly cashless and use credit cards all the time). I just go in after the download, and correct/add the categorization as needed. The classification is not as fine as some posters here do, but works well enough for my purposes.

For example, speaking of RV fuel cost, a few clicks on Quicken let I see that I have spent $16,383 on fuel cost for my motorhome towing a car, ever since I bought it. That's travel over a period of 10 years, and covering 43K miles. I did cross-country RV travel every other year, alternating with European trips, so did not drive every year.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)

"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 03:43 PM   #147
Moderator Emeritus
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 46,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by finnski1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtail View Post
I record every expense every day, except on vacation. Takes a grand total of 5 minutes daily.
That's some serious discipline. [...]
I record every expense every day too but for me it's not much discipline. It's what I do right after taking my shoes off, changing to more comfie clothes, and settling into my recliner with my laptop, once I return home. All part of the same routine. (Then if I order something from Amazon later that night, I record it when I order it.) They say that it takes 21 days to form a habit and once this becomes a habit then it is pretty much automatic.

As Dtail pointed out, it doesn't actually take much time and my guess would be more like 30 seconds than five minutes. For example today under Restaurants "$8.00 soup". There. That didn't take long to type. I haven't spent anything else today so far.

Then every few days I "balance my wallet", taking the previous amount that was in it and subtracting what I bought in cash since that time, and checking to see if the result balances with what is presently in my wallet (to make sure I didn't forget to enter anything). That can be a little more challenging but I love doing it, especially the victorious feeling when it balances. At the same time I check my credit card purchases on their website, and then I check my bank accounts daily, to make sure anything paid from CC or bank was entered in my spreadsheet too. Again, quick and easy and only every few days.

I didn't keep track of my spending to the penny each day when I was working, but back in 2011 F told me about how he does this and I was SO impressed and instantly a convert! What a great idea. Anyone who loves numbers should try it because honestly it is so much fun. Or it is for some of us, anyway. More fun than a barrel of monkeys.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Capture.JPG (34.3 KB, 197 views)
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 03:46 PM   #148
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,501
Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondCor521 View Post
I've read the above several times but still don't understand.

From the heir's point of view, if they know they're going to face a 10 year SECURE Act tax bump, they probably want to be Roth converting now, ahead of time.

They could get stuck, if they have a lot of Roth converting of their own to do and then get hit with a SECURE Act 10 year tax bump...but that just means they're going to be in higher tax brackets and nothing they can really do. First world problem for sure.

Still don't understand the killing Roth conversion comment...everything we've said since seems to suggest Roth conversions are a better idea after the SECURE Act, not worse.
the tax bump (secure act) makes roth conversion too expensive during the bump
bingybear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 03:48 PM   #149
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R View Post
I record every expense every day too but for me it's not much discipline. It's what I do right after taking my shoes off, changing to more comfie clothes, and settling into my recliner with my laptop, once I return home. All part of the same routine. (Then if I order something from Amazon later that night, I record it when I order it.) They say that it takes 21 days to form a habit and once this becomes a habit then it is pretty much automatic.

As Dtail pointed out, it doesn't actually take much time and my guess would be more like 30 seconds than five minutes. For example today under Restaurants "$8.00 soup". There. That didn't take long to type. I haven't spent anything else today so far.

Then every few days I "balance my wallet", taking the previous amount that was in it and subtracting what I bought in cash since that time, and checking to see if the result balances with what is presently in my wallet (to make sure I didn't forget to enter anything). That can be a little more challenging but I love doing it, especially the victorious feeling when it balances. At the same time I check my credit card purchases on their website, and my bank accounts, to make sure anything paid from there was entered in my spreadsheet too. Again, quick and easy and only every few days.

I didn't keep track of my spending to the penny each day when I was working, but back in 2011 F told me about how he does this and I was SO impressed and instantly a convert! What a great idea. Anyone who loves numbers should try it because honestly it is so much fun. Or it is for some of us, anyway. More fun than a barrel of monkeys.

Perhaps you all are convincing me to do this daily rather than every month or two.
finnski1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 03:51 PM   #150
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Tampa
Posts: 9,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R View Post
I record every expense every day too but for me it's not much discipline. It's what I do right after taking my shoes off, changing to more comfie clothes, and settling into my recliner with my laptop, once I return home. All part of the same routine. (Then if I order something from Amazon later that night, I record it when I order it.) They say that it takes 21 days to form a habit and once this becomes a habit then it is pretty much automatic.

As Dtail pointed out, it doesn't actually take much time and my guess would be more like 30 seconds than five minutes. For example today under Restaurants "$8.00 soup". There. That didn't take long to type. I haven't spent anything else today so far.

Then every few days I "balance my wallet", taking the previous amount that was in it and subtracting what I bought in cash since that time, and checking to see if the result balances with what is presently in my wallet (to make sure I didn't forget to enter anything). That can be a little more challenging but I love doing it, especially the victorious feeling when it balances. At the same time I check my credit card purchases on their website, and then I check my bank accounts daily, to make sure anything paid from CC or bank was entered in my spreadsheet too. Again, quick and easy and only every few days.

I didn't keep track of my spending to the penny each day when I was working, but back in 2011 F told me about how he does this and I was SO impressed and instantly a convert! What a great idea. Anyone who loves numbers should try it because honestly it is so much fun. Or it is for some of us, anyway. More fun than a barrel of monkeys.
Haha, you do more accounting for cash than me. I do try to record all the cash expenditures, but have in my budget "Unaccounted Cash" for $20 monthly.
__________________
TGIM
Dtail is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 03:53 PM   #151
Moderator Emeritus
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 46,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by finnski1 View Post
Perhaps you all are convincing me to do this daily rather than every month or two.
21 days to form a habit! Honestly I love doing this stuff and hopefully you will too if you decide to start doing it.
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 03:55 PM   #152
Moderator Emeritus
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 46,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtail View Post
Haha, you do more accounting for cash than me. I do try to record all the cash expenditures, but have in my budget "Unaccounted Cash" for $20 monthly.
I don't have any planned for category "Unaccounted Cash", but if I am off by just a penny or so I don't care. That only happens a couple of times a year, so usually I am keeping track to the penny.

There are SO many times when I forget to enter an unusual cash expenditure, and keeping track this close helps me to remember everything. For example, this week I owed $3 to Frank because I only paid him $10 for some nonperishable food items worth $13 a few weeks ago. These were things he had in his pantry but didn't want, but I did, so I bought them from him but didn't have exact change. I paid him the extra $3 this week. I'd never have remembered that I did that if I wasn't balancing my wallet.

EDIT: And then, last February somehow I lost $23 dollars. I suspect that I was just being my usual insanely clumsy self and dropped it on the ground in a public place when fishing money out of my wallet for something else, or else maybe I thought the $20 bill was a $1 bill (and perhaps the same for a $5 bill) when tipping somebody. Anyway, I assigned that money to my "Miscellaneous" spending category, my only entry during 2020 within the subcategory "To Make It Balance". I never would have known that happened if I hadn't been keeping track.
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 03:57 PM   #153
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,489
Quote:
Originally Posted by bingybear View Post
the tax bump (secure act) makes roth conversion too expensive during the bump
Now I see where you're coming from. It's hard for me to get my mind into that space, since the only thing I inherited from my parents was a bad attitude.
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 03:58 PM   #154
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
SecondCor521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boise
Posts: 6,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by bingybear View Post
the tax bump (secure act) makes roth conversion too expensive during the bump
Ah, OK, that I understand. Thanks for persisting with me.
__________________
"At times the world can seem an unfriendly and sinister place, but believe us when we say there is much more good in it than bad. All you have to do is look hard enough, and what might seem to be a series of unfortunate events, may in fact be the first steps of a journey." Violet Baudelaire.
SecondCor521 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 04:03 PM   #155
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 33,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R View Post

Then every few days I "balance my wallet", taking the previous amount that was in it and subtracting what I bought in cash since that time, to make sure I didn't forget to enter anything. That can be a little more challenging but I love doing it, especially the victorious feeling when it balances...

With Quicken downloading transactions from accounts, I do not often check the account balances as shown on Quicken vs. what is shown on the institution Web sites. I may do that once or twice a year, and surprise, they quite often do not match. The difference may be as high as a few hundred bucks. Somebody's computer is wrong!

Well, quite often the discrepancy is in my favor, meaning the institution's Web site shows that I have more money than what Quicken shows me on my computer. Early on, I tracked down the discrepancy, and this took a few hours because I have to backtrack from the last point when everything was balanced. I downloaded the monthly statements since that point, and it could be more than 12 months since I last looked, then painfully compared every transaction. Pain, oh pain...

And I found that most of them were caused by Quicken missing a dividend payout. I own mostly stocks, not MFs, and they take turn giving out dividends through the year. Either the institutions dropped the ball in reporting it to Quicken, or Quicken messed up, I will never know.

But as I mentioned, the error is usually a happy one, so now I just credit the difference into Quicken, and move on.

Just a few days ago, in looking through all the dividend payouts this year to prefigure out my taxes, I noticed that one MF account had paid no dividend this year. No can be, particularly as this one that is the 1st MF after-tax account I ever own going back decades calls itself an "income MF". A closer look at Quicken told me that the last recoded dividend was 18 months ago. Hah!

Back then, I found out that the downloading stopped working, and this being a smaller account, I just disabled the downloading to kill the error message, and promptly forgot all about it. And this being a smaller account, I gave it no attention while watching the larger ones daily.

After logging into their Web site and getting up-to-date information, I found myself a few $K richer, from both the missing dividends and the higher share price. Happy error of omission again.


PS. I also track spending accounts in Quicken, but do not care to the last penny because my wife takes care of paying them off each month.

One time, out of lack of better things to do, I looked into one of the credit card accounts as shown on Quicken, and saw that its balance was not zero after my wife paid it off. I forgot what the error was, but it took me some time to track it down to manually correct it.


PPS. My wife has her own spreadsheet, although I offered to install Quicken on her PC. She's happy with her system, and that's that. When I need to look up something, it's infinitely quicker for me on Quicken than scrolling through her multi-page Excel file.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)

"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 04:15 PM   #156
Moderator
rodi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 13,191
I took my time looking at this... Waited till the year ended. LOL.

Family of 4, we spent $90,743.02 (Thank you Quicken)

That included everything. Taxes, tuition/housing for 1 semester at college. etc.

Previous year was closer to $150k - but 2019 included a new car and a family trip to Europe.

Big items:
Insurance: $21462.73 (Health was 1/2, homeowners, cars (with 2 teens), umbrella, etc.)
Groceries (includes booze): $10,951.22 Was down by $1k this year at $11k. Contributing factor might be that older son is vegetarian now.
Also had $6k of auto repairs/maintenance...
__________________
Retired June 2014. No longer an enginerd - now I'm just a nerd.
micro pensions 6%, rental income 20%
rodi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 05:19 PM   #157
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 557
Our spending was down about 18% with all the COVID changes, plus we got lucky and nothing serious needed repair (neither our stuff nor ourselves). As it worked out, we gave most of the savings to our kids as their incomes were more impacted-as soon as it starting getting scary back in March, we gave each a check. They all got back to work at least at some amount by May, so they didn't have a bad year overall, just a weird one.
Exchme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 05:31 PM   #158
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,106
We came in at a little over $74K (family of 2, MCOL area), not including income taxes which I still have to calculate. "Core" spending - which we consider everything outside of Healthcare, Travel, Taxes and Lumpy Spending was ~$53K.

CategoryAmountComments
Autos10,6462 leases - 'reasonable' cars, insurance, gas, fees
Charities2,282 
Covid19499Masks, Clorox, Hand Sanitizer or anything else due to COVID19
Entertainment180 
Fees147 
Food & Dining7,342$5,791 Groc; $1K+ libations; Almost $0 restaurant due to pandemic
Gifts1,030 
Health Insurance Premiums12,050COBRA - DW; 1/2 yr COBRA, 1/2 "A"CA - me
Healthcare OOP2,634Deductibles and other out of pocket HC expenses
Home13,796Insurance, Property Taxes (Blue State - Yay!), HOA Dues, misc maint.
Lawn & Garden2,825Lawn & Tree Care, Flowers, Sprinkler service, etc
Lumpy Spending7,298$2K deck repair/seal, $1,750 House repairs, Appliances, Tech, etc
Misc2,457Delivery Fees & Tips, Holidays, Memberships, Online Services, etc.
Personal Care605 
Pets290 
Shopping2,196Computer Hardware & Software, Clothing, Small Appliances, Hobbies
Travel0No Travel due to Pandemic
Utilities8,469CRAZY! Water & Sewer - $1,800+; Cable + Internet $1,500+; Electric: $2,100+...
24601NoMore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 07:42 PM   #159
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Dawg52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Central MS/Orange Beach, AL
Posts: 8,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieB View Post
Don't have a clue and don't want to find out either. Best left unknown and never spoken of.
Although I majored in accounting and spent my entire working career in accounting/finance I have no desire to know the details of my personal expenditures. If I go broke I may regret it.
__________________
Retired 3/31/2007@52
Investing style: Full time wuss.
Dawg52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2021, 12:07 AM   #160
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Out-to-Lunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 2,546
Quote:
Originally Posted by bingybear View Post
the tax bump (secure act) makes roth conversion too expensive during the bump
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
Now I see where you're coming from. It's hard for me to get my mind into that space, since the only thing I inherited from my parents was a bad attitude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondCor521 View Post
Ah, OK, that I understand. Thanks for persisting with me.
Can one of you who have become enlightened explain it to those of us who are still benighted? I won't be offended if you explain it as if I were five.
Out-to-Lunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2019 Spending Summary and Analysis W2R FIRE and Money 196 01-11-2020 08:44 PM
2018 Spending Summary and Analysis W2R FIRE and Money 224 03-13-2019 12:31 PM
2017 Spending Summary and Analysis W2R FIRE and Money 246 01-24-2018 07:11 AM
Vanguard Retirement Analysis vs. 4% withdrawal analysis familyretired FIRE and Money 3 08-26-2005 02:33 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:20 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.