$50 a day? No way!
- Thread starter patnbj
- Start date
Although we do not "budget", (I hate that term), we do track spending much like a business would. Since we have operated many businesses, this is easy for us. For 4662 days of retirement, we have averaged $55.18 per day. This includes healthcare, travel, everything....and we eat well..
We track a daily average, a two year average, and from the beginning of retirement. This way you don't go nuts if your daily average shoots up because you bought air-tickets, had repairs your some other expense.
It works for us.
Billy
Website http://www.geocities.com/ba264
We track a daily average, a two year average, and from the beginning of retirement. This way you don't go nuts if your daily average shoots up because you bought air-tickets, had repairs your some other expense.
It works for us.
Billy
Website http://www.geocities.com/ba264
Mr._johngalt
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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- Dec 3, 2002
- Messages
- 4,801
Hi Billy! Re. $50.00 per day, I rest my case.
johngalt,
Exactly...it can be done...in fact, if we did not travel so much it would be much less....but then again, that's our "fix".....We want to see much of the world while we can still climb up on that rock, wade across that stream, or not be afraid to jump into the back of a pickup.
Thanks,
Billy
Website http://www.geocities.com/ba264
Exactly...it can be done...in fact, if we did not travel so much it would be much less....but then again, that's our "fix".....We want to see much of the world while we can still climb up on that rock, wade across that stream, or not be afraid to jump into the back of a pickup.
Thanks,
Billy
Website http://www.geocities.com/ba264
R
Ron Darr
Guest
Someone please tell me how to spend so little on food.
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Hi Ron,
My best guess is to keep poor records. Or shoplift. Or maybe work for the mafia and get some of those nice boxes of Kansas City strips as special thanks for a job well done. Or you could eat like a poor person in Africa or Latin America- little or no meat, no vegetables, lots of corn meal, rice and beans.
I live alone, and always look for sales, etc when I shop, never eat out-ever- yet I spend on average $450 a month on food. I also don't buy take-out, or lunch meat, or prepared stuff. Strictly the raw ingredients. Meat averages about $5/#, veggies anymore between $1.25 and $2/#. Add it up- it can't be done, at least in the US. I don't buy soda, crackers, snack foods, ice cream, or desserts. Just meat, fish, eggs, milk vegetables and fruits. Plus the necessary spices, oils, etc. For most of this stuff you can't even coupon.
I am eating dinner while I write this. I bought the stuff today. And it is a "budget" meal, using some ingredients many Americans don't eat. I have a mixed salad with red onion, romaine lettuce and arugula. ($1.50) One broccoli crown. ($0.85) 0.75#chicken hearts. ($1.90) Four cloves of garlic. ($0.45) Half a yellow onion ($0.40), spices. and a half cup cheap red wine ($0.50). (I am including only the wine used in cooking, not what I drink.) So a meal made with chicken hearts for one person costs $6.00. I don't eat dessert, but you could add that. If I have cod, add $3. Halibut, add $5 to 6. Hamburger, take away a quarter. A steak, add $5.
Lunch costs about the same. Breakfast I have meat and eggs. have you noticed that eggs are now $1.75 or so a dozen? Still a bargain, but that means that 2 of the things cost $.30. bacon at $4/# is a dollar per meal.
So, breakfast costs $1.30. Lunch and dinner together say $12 to $14. I get $13 to $15 dollars a day, x 30 days, equals $390 to $450 per month, for one person. Oh I forgot- add a buck for so for a little (very little) fruit!I actually spend a bit more, because if I am quite active I have to eat more. Also, I figure wild salmon and halibut are going to disappear in my lifetime-I want to eat as many as I can before that happens. Ditto oysters. Crab has already become too expensive, and lately so are decent beefsteaks. In my market, a decent, not prime but choice steak from the top loin or ribs is $10 to $12 per pound. Since beef is not going away, I will wait for this.
$10 years ago I was working as a tax preparer. Divorced spouses would bring in their food receipts to establish support and dependency on the child. Even back then, many families were spending $600-$800 a month.
I think saving money is nice, and I really try, but I like eating a lot more than I hate working.
BTW, my meal was muy sabroso!
Mikey
J
John Galt
Guest
Holy mackeral Miley!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where do you live??
My wife buys the groceries. She is a careful shopper
in terms of where she buys, sales and coupons, etc.
But, we basically buy what we want (steaks, liquor,you name it) and I don't think we ever spend as much as you do per month, and that's for both of us!!!!!!!!!!! This does not count eating out,
but even there you can easily save without dumpste
diving.
Here is an example:
I recently was gone on a week long trip to Texas.
Typical day:
Slimfast for breakfast - low cal, very nutricious $1.25
Frappacino in mid morning $1.40
McDonalds for lunch $2.25
IHOP for dinner $5.00
Total $9.90
Some days were less and some a little more. This does not count wine (bought at Walmart). But that was
offset by free coffee and food from the motels.
I am only guessing, but I would say our average
at-home costs
for food AND grocery store available items can't be
over $500.00 a month, and that's for 2 people.
John Galtl
My wife buys the groceries. She is a careful shopper
in terms of where she buys, sales and coupons, etc.
But, we basically buy what we want (steaks, liquor,you name it) and I don't think we ever spend as much as you do per month, and that's for both of us!!!!!!!!!!! This does not count eating out,
but even there you can easily save without dumpste
diving.
Here is an example:
I recently was gone on a week long trip to Texas.
Typical day:
Slimfast for breakfast - low cal, very nutricious $1.25
Frappacino in mid morning $1.40
McDonalds for lunch $2.25
IHOP for dinner $5.00
Total $9.90
Some days were less and some a little more. This does not count wine (bought at Walmart). But that was
offset by free coffee and food from the motels.
I am only guessing, but I would say our average
at-home costs
for food AND grocery store available items can't be
over $500.00 a month, and that's for 2 people.
John Galtl
J
John Galt
Guest
Paul Terhorst said he was surprised to find that he enjoyed his post-ER vacations as much as ever.
I enjoy them even more as I no longer fret about
what is going on back at the office. Can't tell
you the number of "vacations" cut short and/or
disrupted by business pressures when I was working.
John Galt
I enjoy them even more as I no longer fret about
what is going on back at the office. Can't tell
you the number of "vacations" cut short and/or
disrupted by business pressures when I was working.
John Galt
Mikey, it must have a lot to do with where you live. I just checked Quicken. Without even trying, we spend only $393.16 per month ($90.73 per week) for four people.
And we eat very well. Steaks, roasts, chops, pies, cakes, deserts, fresh bread, fresh fruits and vegetables, etc. It is almost impossible to find good fish here (Iowa), so we eat almost none. Chicken is cheap, but we eat very little of it - maybe twice a month. Right now in our cupboards we have many varieties of soda, milk, bottled water, orange/apple/grape... juices, earl grey/green/regular/powdered teas, several varieties of crackers, cheeses, dips, etc. We also have candy, packaged and homemade cookies, ice cream, frozen egg rolls/pizza rolls/tenderloins and other frozen convenience foods, 9 varieties of cold cereal and three of hot cereals, three bottles of wine, and many other things too numerous to mention.
In other words, we eat whatever we want. I have no doubt that we could cut our food bill quite a bit if we needed to do it. We track every penny through Quicken, and have for many years. So these aren't estimates, they are actual exact costs over the last 12 months until 11/30/2003. The only thing missing in that $393.16 is one daughter eats some school lunches and that was exactly $185 for the year. So that would add another $15.42 per month bringing the total to $408.58 per month for four. And that's without trying to cut. Plus, we live in a small town so there is no Sam's Club or large cut-rate chain. Only one store in town.
Where you live apparently makes a big difference when it comes to food bills.
Telly
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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- Feb 22, 2003
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For the calendar year 2003, we are running about $6.50 per-person per-day. But that $6.50 also includes everything else also bought at a grocery store. Items such as: Paper towels, T/P, Cleaning supplies, OTC medications, etc. Also includes a school lunch 2-3 times a week.
I doubt we could make really significant cuts to that. Our pre-retirement versus post-retirement food consumption habits have not changed. We clip and use coupons for brands that we buy. Occasionally try something new product-wise if we get a freebie or near-freebie, but most times we are glad we didn't pay for it when we try them, most are not keepers. We have brands we stick to for most items. If we just bought and ate whatever was on sale of any brand, and stockpiled, we could probably get the per-day cost down some, and would end up disliking most meals. Ain't doin' that!
I think we eat well, and reasonably healthy. But we are not food-centric people. Our life, interests, and happiness do not revolve around food consumption. And no oinking goes on in our house
. To each his own.
I doubt we could make really significant cuts to that. Our pre-retirement versus post-retirement food consumption habits have not changed. We clip and use coupons for brands that we buy. Occasionally try something new product-wise if we get a freebie or near-freebie, but most times we are glad we didn't pay for it when we try them, most are not keepers. We have brands we stick to for most items. If we just bought and ate whatever was on sale of any brand, and stockpiled, we could probably get the per-day cost down some, and would end up disliking most meals. Ain't doin' that!
I think we eat well, and reasonably healthy. But we are not food-centric people. Our life, interests, and happiness do not revolve around food consumption. And no oinking goes on in our house
. To each his own.unclemick
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Food is second - behind my hobby stocks - we can always cut back on non essentials like utilities, get an older truck, etc.
$50/day is off the table when it comes to food.
P.S. Given my skill level we eat a lot of take out and Warren Buffet has nothing to worry about.
$50/day is off the table when it comes to food.
P.S. Given my skill level we eat a lot of take out and Warren Buffet has nothing to worry about.
J
John Galt
Guest
Okay, I checked with my wife and she agrees with my
estimate of $500.00 per month for ALL food and grocery store type items (excluding eating out). And, even though she is a pretty
careful shopper, I believe that could be trimmed even
further without obvious reduction in quality of consumables. We get everything we want and plenty
of it for the $500 per month. BTW, that includes
feeding four (4) dogs.
John Galt
estimate of $500.00 per month for ALL food and grocery store type items (excluding eating out). And, even though she is a pretty
careful shopper, I believe that could be trimmed even
further without obvious reduction in quality of consumables. We get everything we want and plenty
of it for the $500 per month. BTW, that includes
feeding four (4) dogs.
John Galt
J
John Galt
Guest
Here's the deal. From the age of 32 until I semiretired
in 1993, I was President of 4 (four) companies
and living large. Country clubs, Cadillacs, multiple
residences, expensive vacations, expensive restaurants,
etc etc. No plan for ER whatsoever and basically
spending everything that came in, almost right up to the ER
decision (around December 1992). I find the doubt expressed
about the $50.00 per day thing amusing. If fact,
millions are doing it, right here in the USA.
in 1993, I was President of 4 (four) companies
and living large. Country clubs, Cadillacs, multiple
residences, expensive vacations, expensive restaurants,
etc etc. No plan for ER whatsoever and basically
spending everything that came in, almost right up to the ER
decision (around December 1992). I find the doubt expressed
about the $50.00 per day thing amusing. If fact,
millions are doing it, right here in the USA.
J
John Galt
Guest
And here is more...................
No lazy money! Every dime has to pay it's way and
anything not being utilized is turned into cash in some way. Shop at resale shops, garage sales and auctions
for almost everything. Buy your groceries in bulk at bare bones stores. Clip coupons. Have a garden. Fish. Hunt. Drive old cars (ours are 13 and 6 years old). Buy the cheapest health insurance you can find or "go bare" and pray you don't get sick.
Looking around here, about the only durable assets
which were bought new were our computer, a 13 in. tv, my recliner and my motorcycle. Everything else in the house was purchased used and cheap. Never buy a
new book or magazine. Pick up freebees or go to the library. Find cheap phone service and dial down the heat and A/C to cut utilities. Feed the dogs cheap
generic food. When they get hungry enough, they will eat it. Give home made gifts or regift the stuff you
receive that you know you will never use.
When you travel, pack most of your food in advance.
Negotiate and/or ask for discounts on everything.
You will be amazed what people will agree to.
John Galt
No lazy money! Every dime has to pay it's way and
anything not being utilized is turned into cash in some way. Shop at resale shops, garage sales and auctions
for almost everything. Buy your groceries in bulk at bare bones stores. Clip coupons. Have a garden. Fish. Hunt. Drive old cars (ours are 13 and 6 years old). Buy the cheapest health insurance you can find or "go bare" and pray you don't get sick.
Looking around here, about the only durable assets
which were bought new were our computer, a 13 in. tv, my recliner and my motorcycle. Everything else in the house was purchased used and cheap. Never buy a
new book or magazine. Pick up freebees or go to the library. Find cheap phone service and dial down the heat and A/C to cut utilities. Feed the dogs cheap
generic food. When they get hungry enough, they will eat it. Give home made gifts or regift the stuff you
receive that you know you will never use.
When you travel, pack most of your food in advance.
Negotiate and/or ask for discounts on everything.
You will be amazed what people will agree to.
John Galt
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
That is true. I see a number of them sleeping on the street, enjoying the bracing Seattle winters. They sure turned down the heat! A cop friend of mine told about an older man who has $450 a month in Army disability. The cop tried to get him to move into a hotel, to get out of the rain. No-way he said, that $450 makes him street royalty. Whatever he wants, he gets it, and with service. He wants a bottle of Thunderbird, some flunky fetched it for him. He doesn't even really have to tip- just the knowledge that he can, and will occasionally do so keeps his minions hopping.
Another benefit- he has his own private security force. When he bites it, there goes his cash flow. So a number of people want to keep him alive. One more advantage of annuities.
For sure, there is more than one way to skin a cat. It's just that not all of us enjoy cat, skinned or otherwise.
Mikey
J
John Galt
Guest
Hey Mikey, get a grip! We're not doing it
($50.00 per day) and don't intend to. But, we could
and so could everyone else if they were sufficiently
motivated (except maybe cut-throat.
Seriously, not only do many achieve this level of
economical living, but many enjoy it and don't feel
the least bit deprived. As proof, I offer this. My ER pretax income has hovered around 10% of my peak earning years, and I don't feel like I am missing anything. The folks that tell you that you need 70% or 80% of your working income to retire are nuts,
IMHO.
John Galt
($50.00 per day) and don't intend to. But, we could
and so could everyone else if they were sufficiently
motivated (except maybe cut-throat
.Seriously, not only do many achieve this level of
economical living, but many enjoy it and don't feel
the least bit deprived. As proof, I offer this. My ER pretax income has hovered around 10% of my peak earning years, and I don't feel like I am missing anything. The folks that tell you that you need 70% or 80% of your working income to retire are nuts,
IMHO.
John Galt
Hello John Galt:
I have read a number of your posts, and while I would not want to hustle, the way that you apparantly do, whether self imposed, or by neccissity, I totally agree that anybody that says it requires 70 to 80% of your income to retire on is probably someone who has an axe to grind. (Financial individual who wants a commission on what you are willing to save). Have been retired for 16 years, and have never had a better lifestyle than our current one, and no where near close to 50% of our previous income.
Regards, and continue to enjoy your retirement.
I have read a number of your posts, and while I would not want to hustle, the way that you apparantly do, whether self imposed, or by neccissity, I totally agree that anybody that says it requires 70 to 80% of your income to retire on is probably someone who has an axe to grind. (Financial individual who wants a commission on what you are willing to save). Have been retired for 16 years, and have never had a better lifestyle than our current one, and no where near close to 50% of our previous income.
Regards, and continue to enjoy your retirement.
unclemick
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
When I ran across Dory 36's - 33% that's my story post back in july 03 - it rang so true, I joined this forum. Also the INTJ bit on the ER homepage.
wabmester
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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- Dec 6, 2003
- Messages
- 4,459
I'll bite -- what's INTJ?
Also just read the thread on 33% pre-ER gross, and I'm curious about one point everybody seemed to agree on. Why does everybody think paying off a mortgage is a good idea in retirement?
I refi'd with a 15-yr fixed rate at around 5%. After tax, that's below 4%. It's relatively easy to get a better yield than 4% on an investment with a 15-yr horizon, and that's why I decided to keep a mortgage. Am I missing something?
I'm with you, Wabmester. I ran the numbers a few years ago and decided it made a lot more sense to keep making low interest, partially tax deductible, non-inflationary mortgage payments than it did to pay it off. Risk is actually very low that you wouldn't come out ahead financially over the life of the loan and the extra investment dollars have the potential to help defray the cost of inflation.
J
John Galt
Guest
Yeah, I agree too, also having crunched the numbers.
But, in my case with very low pretax income, the mortgage related
deductions are not important. Also, there is some
psychological benefit to being 100% debt free.
I have revisited this a number of times, considering
whether to mortgage our place with rates so low.
Never made sense for me, but I can see the appeal for
others.
John Galt
But, in my case with very low pretax income, the mortgage related
deductions are not important. Also, there is some
psychological benefit to being 100% debt free.
I have revisited this a number of times, considering
whether to mortgage our place with rates so low.
Never made sense for me, but I can see the appeal for
others.
John Galt
C
Cut-Throat
Guest
wabmaster,
Well, I was in a similar situation last summer, 10 years on a 5% Mortgage.
Stock Market ran up - got over valued. Took some profits. Everyone trying to find where to park their money at 2% -
Hey - I can get 5% with no risk!!
A little diversification now. Zero debt!! - Feels good! - Sleep better etc. That's what I was missing. 8)
Plus a lot of folks/experts are saying that the Market may not go anywhere in the next 10 years.
So, my question is where do you put you money to get better than 5%? - I'm listening - I'm still 50% Cash and 50% Stocks!
Hey - Unclemick - I believe I was INTJ also - I heard that this was the designation most likely to retire early!
W
wab mester
Guest
I tend to agree with you on the peace-of-mind argument, but you decided to retire early, so you implicitly decided to take on risk associated with replacing "safe" income with investment income.
5% is a low return for a 15-yr (or even 10-yr in your case) horizon, historically speaking. You can get close to that now with AAA muni's (tax-equiv) or AAA corporate bonds, but it sort of defeats the purpose to simply exchange low-interest debt with low-interest income.
Given your equity stake, I would assume you believe the pundits who conservatively estimate that stocks should return an annualized return > 6% over the long term, so that would be one way to play it.
Personally, I'm willing to bet interest rates will rise in the next couple years, so I'd start with short-term bonds and extend duration once rates rise above your long-term fixed mortgage rate.
If you expect inflation to rise (another safe bet, I think), then TIPs would also be a way to play it.
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
GDER, this is an intersting and subtle point. However, it ignores one thing. If you offset the mortgage with federal government bonds matched for maturity with the morgage note, all you have to do is get a positive after tax spread. Since the mortgae note will be fixed, there is no need to allow for inflation in your offsetting investment. So your SWR, 4% or otherwise, is not relevant.
Mikey
