50k invested or peace of mind?

[Mr. Tightwad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeea Because of the safety ratings?

Yes. What's something more important than not dying in your vehicle?

Its awesome for many reasons, but thats #1 on my list.

40,000 auto deaths annually. Something to think about. I also eat healthy. I have taken over 10,000 steps 103 days in a row and counting. Anything else I can do to avoid the grim reaper sounds like a smart way to live.

[ExFlyBoy5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Tightwad Yes. What's something more important than not dying in your vehicle? Its awesome for many reasons, but thats #1 on my list.

Maybe not so safe on "auto pilot"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohn.../#4252633377d5

Quote:

The National Transportation Safety Board issued preliminary findings from its investigation of the March 1 crash in Delray Beach that killed 50-year-old Jeremy Beren Banner, who died after his 2018 Model 3 hit a semi-truck that crossed his path on Florida State Highway 441 in early morning traffic. The Tesla, travelling at 68 miles per hour on a section of highway with a posted speed limit of 55 mph, slammed into the side of the truck’s trailer, shearing the Tesla’s roof off. The truck driver was unharmed.

[joeea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Tightwad Yes. What's something more important than not dying in your vehicle? Its awesome for many reasons, but thats #1 on my list.

Okay. Maybe you are the one who bought a Tesla for the safety.

Quote:

Anything else I can do to avoid the grim reaper sounds like a smart way to live.

You could stay home and avoid all driving. That's far safer.

[njhowie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Tightwad 40,000 auto deaths annually. Something to think about.

If you consider the number of cars on the road, region of the country, and other criteria, the likelihood of you being one of the 40,000 is quite small - regardless of what kind of vehicle you are driving. Probably the biggest/easiest preventative measure - simply drive safely, wear the seat belt and be a defensive driver...as we were all taught prior to getting a license.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyamo...w-report-finds

[dirtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Tightwad Yes. What's something more important than not dying in your vehicle? Its awesome for many reasons, but thats #1 on my list. 40,000 auto deaths annually. Something to think about. I also eat healthy. I have taken over 10,000 steps 103 days in a row and counting. Anything else I can do to avoid the grim reaper sounds like a smart way to live.

If crash-worthiness is your number one concern, the bigger the vehicle, the better it crashes, all else being equal. Crash testing is different for different vehicle classes (basically they crash into similar-sized vehicles, which obviously doesn't always happen on the road). A five star rated small car would very likely not be a five star rated vehicle if tested in a large SUV/truck test.

[imoldernu]

Together, 0ur 96 Caddy and 98 Lincoln are 43 years old. I think jeanie wants to buy a new car, but I think these are big and safe. I'm getting a little nervous about traffic, and the chances for an accident, so... Am trying to get her to agree to buy battery powered roller skates, so we don't end up in an automobile crash. After all, how much trouble can you get in to on the sidewalk?

[Arizona1]

When I posted this I assumed the conversation would be about the loss in income from the money. I’m glad to see most here are thinking about how to live safer. I found the safest vehicle by looking up vehicles with the least reported injuries. Sometimes injuries can be worse than a quick death.
I had a cop buddy that told me the one with the most lug nuts wins.

[NW-Bound]

The Tesla 3 is a very safe car, as judged by various testing agencies. If people worry about competitive survivability between cars, I wonder how it would fare.

The Tesla 3 weighs about 3,800 lbs for the long-range model. The battery in the floor however weighs 1,200 lbs, leaving the rest of 2,600 lbs for the structure. That seems light compared to other cars of the same size and weight.

My SUV weighs 4,300 lbs, but I do not know how heavy its V6 engine weighs. Its structure looks and feels beefier than most sedans. The gas mileage of course sucks.

PS. A Ford F350 crewcab would be good, unless you go against a semi-trailer. Its weight is 7,500 lbs. You can get 20mpg with a diesel engine.

PPS. Out of curiosity, I look up the weight of the semi tractor (without the trailer). It's the king of the road at 18,000 lbs.

[NW-Bound]

For comparison to the little Smart car in the earlier video, a bunch of larger cars did not do that well in protecting their occupants. Look at the 2001 F150 pick up at 2:40. And it did not look like 70mph either.

PS. NHTSA frontal crash tests are at 35mph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtHnDKegUJw

[Andre1969]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound For comparison to the little Smart car in the earlier video, a bunch of larger cars did not do that well in protecting their occupants. Look at the 2001 F150 pick up at 2:40. And it did not look like 70mph either. PS. NHTSA frontal crash tests are at 35mph. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtHnDKegUJw

I don't know exactly what the timeline was, but at some point the feds started cracking down on light trucks, to make them safer. At one point, all sorts of safety regs applied to cars, but not anything classified as a "truck". For instance, I used to have a 1985 Chevy C10 Silverado. Believe it or not, a rear bumper was still an option! And the front bumper was the old fashioned kind, bolted right to the frame. Meanwhile, most, if not all passenger cars bumpers that were mounted on shock absorbers that were designed to protect components such as lights, the radiator, etc, up to a certain speed (either 5 mph or 2.5...I think at some point the standard was relaxed).


I remember seeing a lot of those crash tests when they first came out, and some of those 90's and early 2000's rigs were indeed pretty scary. Seems like truck-based compact SUVs and minivans, such as the Astro, Aerostar, S-10 Blazer, etc, did really poorly. These things basically dated back in design to 1982, when the small S-10 and Ranger pickups were introduced. And while they were updated over the years, they still suffered from simply being an old design that was tweaked here and there, rather than a ground-up redesign.


And when those extended cab pickups with the suicide rear doors first came out, they were pretty bad, as well. The problem was that the front door simply latched onto the back door, but there was no "B-pillar" between the doors for structural support. So you just had this huge, gaping, unsupported hole. It was similar to the old pillarless 4-door hardtop body styles that were popular in the late 50's, 60, and ended with the big '78 Newport/New Yorker...but even these old cars were beefed up somewhat, in that they had a half-pillar for the rear door hinges to anchor to...it's just that the pillar didn't go all the way to the roof. When these extended suicide door trucks first came out, they weren't that well designed, but they've definitely improved in later years.


Also, I just got to thinking...I wonder what the most common type of accident is? I've heard that it's actually a single-vehicle crash...sliding off the road and hitting something, going into the ditch, etc. As for my own personal experience, I've rear-ended someone once, got rear-ended twice, been T-boned once, and one that I don't know how to classify. I got run off the road and hit a traffic light pole sideways. Technically I guess that was a one car accident, because I swerved to avoid being hit, but there was another vehicle involved.


That traffic light accident was probably the worst, although I've been lucky that I never got hurt in any of them. But, with the traffic light I was going pretty fast, and driving a 1969 Dodge Dart GT hardtop...not exactly the safest car in the world! Although, at the time I was thinking that the Dart's design might have saved me, in its own right. I knocked that pole right off of its base and launched it a good distance. A more modern, lighter, "softer" car might not have had the mass to rip the pole out of the ground like that, and would have decelerated much more quickly, resulting in greater forces on the car. Now, in a similar accident, I'd feel safe in most modern cars, unless it was something like a Chevy Spark. But, this was 1992 when this accident happened, and there was a lot of flimsy, lightweight crap being built at that time.

[ncbill]

Why buy when you can lease?

I just leased a nicely-equipped 4WD Tacoma (TRD Sport trim) this month for under $350/month, only first month's payment due at signing (dealer fees, taxes, optional wear & tear coverage, etc. all rolled into the monthly payment)

Don't plan on keeping it (cheap payment = high residual) but it will be a fun drive compared to the worn-out (~250,000 city miles) ancient Subaru it replaced.

[dirtbiker]

I'm currently leasing my truck and won't do it ever again. Well at least not while I'm working. I'm constantly sweating the mileage. And it's a perpetual vehicle payment. I'll buy my next truck new and plan to hold onto it for at least a decade. The last half of that decade will be without any vehicle payment.

[Andre1969]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtbiker I'm currently leasing my truck and won't do it ever again. Well at least not while I'm working. I'm constantly sweating the mileage. And it's a perpetual vehicle payment. I'll buy my next truck new and plan to hold onto it for at least a decade. The last half of that decade will be without any vehicle payment.

Every once in awhile I'll go through this same argument with myself, but come back around to buying. Back in late 2012 I bought a new leftover Dodge Ram, for around $20,750 out the door. At the time, I figured it wouldn't get driven a whole lot, and I played with the idea of trading it just before the 5/50K powertrain warranty was up. Being low miles, I thought it would have pretty good trade in, and I could get into something new again, for a fairly low monthly payment, and be rid of the old truck before major repairs started popping up.

Well, it'll be 7 years on September 23 since I bought that truck. It only has about 52,000 miles on it. The radio just quit working on it. CD player works, but when you put on a regular station there's no sound. It will come on eventually, but then soon go out again. When it started doing that, there was a part of me that was thinking, maybe it's time to trade. BUT, getting the radio fixed is still a LOT cheaper than a new truck!

Also, the kind of truck I want is getting to be a rarity these days. I want a regular cab, 8-foot bed. Dodge quit making them, although I think you can still get them if you move to the heavier-duty 3/4 and 1-ton series...something I don't really need. It's also been nice, not having a payment. The Ram's payment was only $358/mo, but I paid it off after a few months.

[The Cosmic Avenger]

We've finally gotten to the point where we paid off our vehicles, and saved up cash to buy one. We are in w*rk and save mode, so we are driving them for 10+ years. I'm on year 13 now, but our budget allows for me to buy a new one next year...and the minion may inherit my current old but safe and reliable vehicle. However, if we are in "blow that dough" mode in retirement, I wouldn't mind a new vehicle every 3-4 years if we can do it for around what we have budgeted to save up for a new car. We were so focused on LBOM that I was very surprised how much the new car felt like a luxury. It was our first vehicle with Bluetooth, in-dash display, moon roof, heated seats, adaptive cruise control, even auto headlights.

[EarlyBirdly]

" 40,000 auto deaths annually. Something to think about."


It's averaged about 40k a year since the 1930's or thereabouts. Actually it's getting safer as regards total population.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_...n_U.S._by_year

[dirtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre1969 Every once in awhile I'll go through this same argument with myself, but come back around to buying. Back in late 2012 I bought a new leftover Dodge Ram, for around $20,750 out the door. At the time, I figured it wouldn't get driven a whole lot, and I played with the idea of trading it just before the 5/50K powertrain warranty was up. Being low miles, I thought it would have pretty good trade in, and I could get into something new again, for a fairly low monthly payment, and be rid of the old truck before major repairs started popping up. Well, it'll be 7 years on September 23 since I bought that truck. It only has about 52,000 miles on it. The radio just quit working on it. CD player works, but when you put on a regular station there's no sound. It will come on eventually, but then soon go out again. When it started doing that, there was a part of me that was thinking, maybe it's time to trade. BUT, getting the radio fixed is still a LOT cheaper than a new truck! Also, the kind of truck I want is getting to be a rarity these days. I want a regular cab, 8-foot bed. Dodge quit making them, although I think you can still get them if you move to the heavier-duty 3/4 and 1-ton series...something I don't really need. It's also been nice, not having a payment. The Ram's payment was only $358/mo, but I paid it off after a few months.

My current truck is 2018 F150 XLT that I'm leasing. $450/month for 3 years. No down payment. I bought that when my '04 F150 needed repairs too expensive to justify spending the money on. I do too much hauling and towing not to have a pickup. Pickups hold their value so well, that I didn't see anything used in a decent price range that would make me choose lightly used over new. However, I was stuck shopping for and buying this one last minute due to my other truck unexpectedly dying on me.

When my lease on this one is coming up, I'm going to do a factory order and buy one. You have to order it a few months in advance. Right now I'm paying for packages I don't need/want and don't have some things I'd like. I can factory order exactly what I want and don't have to have anything I don't. That'll be a truck I can hold onto for quite a few years. I want the extra large gas tank, leather seats, 4x4, and a simple tow package. That's about it. I don't need large chrome wheels, the latest gadget package, luxury package, etc. It's all wasted money as far as I'm concerned.

[Andre1969]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtbiker When my lease on this one is coming up, I'm going to do a factory order and buy one. You have to order it a few months in advance. Right now I'm paying for packages I don't need/want and don't have some things I'd like. I can factory order exactly what I want and don't have to have anything I don't. That'll be a truck I can hold onto for quite a few years. I want the extra large gas tank, leather seats, 4x4, and a simple tow package. That's about it. I don't need large chrome wheels, the latest gadget package, luxury package, etc. It's all wasted money as far as I'm concerned.

For the most part, I'm happy with the way my 2012 Ram is equipped...Hemi V8, power windows/locks, nice sound system. Split bench seat for marginal 3-across seating when needed. Tilt, cruise. Not a fancy interior, but at least it has carpeting, and not just a giant rubber floor mat. The bumpers and grille are just blackout plastic, but it does have upgraded wheels/tires. Not alloys, but 17x8, versus the 17x7 that I think came standard, and the pattern was a bit more attractive in my opinion. I had the dealer install a sliding rear window, which I think is nice to have.


The only thing I kind of regret not getting is 4wd. 99% of the time, I don't need it, but this truck absolutely SUCKS in icy weather! Despite having SureGrip, or whatever they call the limited slip axle these days, not to mention ABS and traction control, I swear my Granddad's old '85 Silverado, which was just RWD, no limited slip, and in those days ABS/traction control was a plaything for the rich, but I swear that truck had better winter traction. These days, most of my daily driving is done with a 2003 Regal I inherited from my Dad, so the truck just gets used for truck-type duties, with an occasional run just to keep it from sitting for too long. But, in icy conditions, I almost always take the car.

[dirtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre1969 For the most part, I'm happy with the way my 2012 Ram is equipped...Hemi V8, power windows/locks, nice sound system. Split bench seat for marginal 3-across seating when needed. Tilt, cruise. Not a fancy interior, but at least it has carpeting, and not just a giant rubber floor mat. The bumpers and grille are just blackout plastic, but it does have upgraded wheels/tires. Not alloys, but 17x8, versus the 17x7 that I think came standard, and the pattern was a bit more attractive in my opinion. I had the dealer install a sliding rear window, which I think is nice to have. The only thing I kind of regret not getting is 4wd. 99% of the time, I don't need it, but this truck absolutely SUCKS in icy weather! Despite having SureGrip, or whatever they call the limited slip axle these days, not to mention ABS and traction control, I swear my Granddad's old '85 Silverado, which was just RWD, no limited slip, and in those days ABS/traction control was a plaything for the rich, but I swear that truck had better winter traction. These days, most of my daily driving is done with a 2003 Regal I inherited from my Dad, so the truck just gets used for truck-type duties, with an occasional run just to keep it from sitting for too long. But, in icy conditions, I almost always take the car.

Oh yeah, I forgot the 3 across front seating. That's mandatory for me as well. Which works out good because, at least on the Ford, that's the cheaper option!

2WD trucks are extremely hard to find where I live. The winters are just too snowy. I mean, you can't find them on the lots here. You have to special order them. And I live on a mountain, so it's a necessity. The advantage to the 2WD trucks is better gas mileage though. And if you don't get too much bad winter weather, they're probably the better way to go for most people.

My daily driver is my dualsport motorcycle. I ride it all year round. But when the white stuff is on the roads, I've got to take my truck. Otherwise, the truck is used for truck type stuff and for hauling the kids.

[Arizona1]

This is what I replaced. I felt like I was going to be #40,001 anytime.

[atmsmshr]

Arizona - you did good on the small car trade in cost over operating life!

So many variables in a crash. One law of physics is known as conservation of momentum (P=mass of vehicle 1 X velocity of vehicle 1 is equal to mass of vehicle 2 X velocity of vehicle 2). Intuitively, when a larger mass vehicle hits a smaller mass in opposite directions it is the smart car or motorcycle that gets kicked like a football while the SUV keeps plowing forward at a reduced velocity. The remaining kinetic energy (KE = 1/2 mass X delta velocity squared) is what is what must be absorbed in brake and tire friction, and deformation of the car.

The head on partial overlap tests in the crash videos demonstrate that it is the passenger compartment that must be protected, and cushioning of the occupant to minimize injuries. The videos showed some examples of where this type of crash must have been devastating to ankles, knees and hips - not to mention head injuries.

This is my wife's small SUV 2013 GLK350 last February after someone else ran a light at 45mph. The interior space was not deformed - I did not even realize the car was equipped with a knee air bag. Her right wrist was broken from the steering air bag (her hands were at the classic 10 and 2 o'clock position.)

I'd been a bit fanatical about car safety (build, brakes and tires) in the last 15 years for DW and the kids. It was worth every penny. (Photos on the side for dramatic effect.)