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Old 04-19-2018, 10:25 AM   #21
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It is an app, a news reader, you dinosaur!
As charged....
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:26 AM   #22
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What the h*ck is "flipboard" ?

probably something to do with snapgram or instachat.
My buddy treats social media with the disdain they deserve!

Think flipchart and whiteboard.
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:32 AM   #23
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As charged....
Haha! That's alright, even my millennial friends are getting old now, so by god that's something!
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:35 PM   #24
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OK. I really didn't see the reason for quoting the west coast gal about "Midwest Minions." Why does everything have to have a divisive part to it? This is unnecessary code language.

The article was good until this sad quote was included.
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Agree 110%. Why is it that almost all of these kinds of articles either dis those who are able to do it and/or have to try to be divisive. The fact of the matter is that many people have bad spending habits, and whether you have a high paying job or not, learning to have a budget and and understanding of your spending and compound growth of savings is beneficial whether you FIRE or not.
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Not when there is name calling.
I can't help but think that you have misunderstood the article. The 'west coast gal' was referring to the thoughts of 'Many FIRE followers' - as a life-long mid-westerner, I found absolutely nothing offensive in that paragraph.
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Old 04-19-2018, 06:58 PM   #25
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I worked a 20-year pension career and when I got my pension by moved out into the woods to live off-grid [on solar power] and grow our own food.

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Old 04-19-2018, 07:34 PM   #26
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And I know lots of people with the opposite perspective who stop reading when an article goes down a philosophical path opposed to theirs. Is anything well-served by folks keeping themselves so insulated from the opposite perspective?
I have an open mind to new perspectives. I don't have the time to waste reading the same perspective over and over again.

I 'got' the message on "privilege" a long time ago. I got it. I've been reminded of it regularly since I was about 10 years old. Don't need any more articles to remind me.
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Old 04-19-2018, 08:10 PM   #27
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Millennials should respect their elders...by funding social security instead of retiring early
There was an article recently about a couple that was putting away the majority of their income and planning ER, and one of the comments accused them of being the reason the poor remain poor. Dont buy Starbucks? How will the barista survive?
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Old 04-19-2018, 08:25 PM   #28
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I can't help but think that you have misunderstood the article. The 'west coast gal' was referring to the thoughts of 'Many FIRE followers' - as a life-long mid-westerner, I found absolutely nothing offensive in that paragraph.
Plus, you have to remember that to Millennials "minions" is not a dirty word.
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Old 04-19-2018, 08:32 PM   #29
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I have an open mind to new perspectives. I don't have the time to waste reading the same perspective over and over again.
+1
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Old 04-20-2018, 06:43 AM   #30
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There was an article recently about a couple that was putting away the majority of their income and planning ER, and one of the comments accused them of being the reason the poor remain poor. Dont buy Starbucks? How will the barista survive?
What's that old Cary Grant line? Something like "I've got a job, a secretary, a mother, two ex-wives and several bartenders that depend upon me..."
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Old 04-20-2018, 06:56 AM   #31
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Plus, you have to remember that to Millennials "minions" is not a dirty word.
Minions wasn't the problem. The problem was the code words after.

The alternative equivalent would be something like "Coastal tree huggers."

It just isn't necessary to inject "us/them" culture. Some people are vegan, some like trucks. And I think there are some that like both! That's great! Why the undercurrent of disdain about others' preferences?
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Old 04-20-2018, 07:20 AM   #32
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Minions wasn't the problem. The problem was the code words after.

The alternative equivalent would be something like "Coastal tree huggers."

It just isn't necessary to inject "us/them" culture. Some people are vegan, some like trucks. And I think there are some that like both! That's great! Why the undercurrent of disdain about others' preferences?
I guess I've got a previous generation secret decoder ring. I haven't got a clue about whatever's got you so worked up. I've read that part of the article over and over and don't see anything offensive. Are you upset that she's implying that Midwesterners have loans for pickup trucks? If so, that's pretty uber-sensitive, IMO. Of course, I wouldn't get upset at coastal tree huggers either. Or Eastern intellectual elites, or whatever. They're just words. Words only hurt if you respect the opinion of the person uttering them. Just put her on ignore.
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Old 04-20-2018, 07:24 AM   #33
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Interesting - I read the "midwest minions" comment as a criticism by Emma Pattee of the coastal people who would use that term. Whole quote in context:

Quote:
The FIRE movement, to a large extent, remains a culture of “very entitled white men who are very proud of themselves when it wasn’t much of a stretch for them anyway,” says Emma Pattee, 27, a writer based in Portland, Ore., who retired last year at 26 after making successful real estate investments. Many FIRE followers, she says, are already high earners who “disdain all the Midwest minions who can’t get out in front of their truck loan.”
Now, personally I think she's paying too much attention to a subset of the FIRE community (at least, that's how the article is spinning her words). I think she may need to open her eyes to the wide variety of ERs from around the US and around the world.

Maybe she's reading a specific kind of social media rather than the message boards I'm seeing. I could see there being some kind of self-selection depending on what platform they're using, and it skewing perception. Regardless, I think she may be happier leaving the "FIRE bros" behind and hanging out with the rest of us.
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Old 04-20-2018, 07:39 AM   #34
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Interesting - I read the "midwest minions" comment as a criticism by Emma Pattee of the coastal people who would use that term. Whole quote in context:
Indeed! I'm more of a visual person. My reading comprehension is just OK. I'm a bad writer.

Upon reading again, and your analysis, she is indeed making a critique of people who are doing exactly what I was bitching about: putting people into groups and writing them off because they "don't get it," even though those making the critique come from an entitled space.

Interesting! I'll try to read slower next time. Sorry for creating a dust-up. Carry on.
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Old 04-20-2018, 08:42 AM   #35
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Too much of our culture today wants all of the privileges and none of the responsibilities. Sorry but privilege and responsibility always go hand in hand. If some one wants the privilege of retiring early they have the responsibility of working to earn that privilege...
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:16 AM   #36
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If some one wants the privilege of retiring early they have the responsibility of working to earn that privilege...
However, that really doesn't hold water with many people because it doesn't work both ways. As long as hard work doesn't invariably lead to financial security due to factors that people are effectively born into*, the contention that financial security is earned by hard work is, by definition, a privileged perspective.

_____
* In our day, those factors were mostly gender and race, and the socioeconomic class that you were born into. Today, those factors also include generation, since Millennials that follow the exact same path that you and I did are extremely unlikely to be as financially successful as we have been due to the effect of globalization and automation.
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Old 04-20-2018, 12:12 PM   #37
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Too much of our culture today wants all of the privileges and none of the responsibilities.
That's because they are wise to the fact that it has always been that way for a certain segment of the culture.
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Old 04-20-2018, 01:35 PM   #38
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Today, those factors also include generation, since Millennials that follow the exact same path that you and I did are extremely unlikely to be as financially successful as we have been
I seem to remember someone saying that my generation (or the one following) would not be as successful as their parents. "Too many boomers would dilute opportunities" I think was the reason; but somehow there always seems to be a way ahead. "The more things change....etc"

The Millennials I know (nieces/nephews) are already way, way ahead financially of where I was at that age as far as savings, investment, home ownership and job position.

As it's been for millennia (pun intended), there are the fortunate and the not-so. "The poor you will always have with you"

Regardless, I've long ago stopped being concerned.
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Old 04-20-2018, 01:59 PM   #39
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And I know lots of people with the opposite perspective who stop reading when an article goes down a philosophical path opposed to theirs. Is anything well-served by folks keeping themselves so insulated from the opposite perspective?
To be fair...most of the media these days has one perspective, and one perspective only. They are the one who are truly insulated, and it's a rare shock when one of them dares to stray from the agenda.
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Old 04-20-2018, 04:53 PM   #40
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This did not start with millennials. I've been pretty sure since my mid-30s that I wouldn't be able to (or want to) sustain my current career much past 55.

Living in a high-cost area and college tuition has delayed that a few years, but retiring within a few months of 60 is looking pretty certain.
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