A small economy.

[aja8888]

I'm not saying that occasional exposure to a broken CFL will be a problem, just that comparing inhaling the vapor to eating or handling mercury that is in liquid form is not a good comparison at all.

I didn't do a deep dive into the data, but the wiki article appears to be well referenced, with links for everything.

-ERD50

Thanks for all your time and effort here. It's funny that EPA views spills of liquid mercury as a huge problem along pipeline corridors where the liquid gets in the soil at the base of the meter stations with old, broken or abused mercury meters in them. Clean up is generally enforced by EPA and is in the <10 parts per billion range. No vapors there! I guess they worry about prairie dogs and lizards eating the mercury?

 

[Golden sunsets]

No kind of expert, but: I read about adding to a LED strip light that it was critical that the polarity be maintained. An incandescent bulb doesn't care if the hot lead goes to the center terminal of the fixture or the shell, though there are conventions that we all follow. Given that you have the non-functional LED MR16 bulbs maybe it is worth checking the polarity at the connection point on your track light - maybe someone got all unconventional.

Hi Calmloki; I'm not sure how to check polarity Even if I could stop the flickering though, the way in which the light was emitted bothered me. The existing track lighting is a bi-pin bulb covered by a test tube shaped white shade. That configuration is then set within a decorative glass shade so that when turned on the light emits in all directions creating a glow effect. The MR 16's only direct light downward and the shade does not glow. I did first try replacement "corn" LED's which would have solved the Glow issue but corn bulbs are pretty unattractive to look at and they would not consistently turn on. My final solution will be to eventually replace the track with integrated LED track but I'll have to budget for that and include repainting the walls as the current track is wider than any replacement track I've seen thus far.

 

[ERD50]

Thanks for all your time and effort here. It's funny that EPA views spills of liquid mercury as a huge problem along pipeline corridors where the liquid gets in the soil at the base of the meter stations with old, broken or abused mercury meters in them. Clean up is generally enforced by EPA and is in the <10 parts per billion range. No vapors there! I guess they worry about prairie dogs and lizards eating the mercury?

I have no idea what the EPA's thinking is on that.

I'm very much in favor of protecting our environment, and the EPA has done some very good work there, but I often have no idea what the EPA's thinking in certain areas.

-ERD50

 

[aja8888]

I have no idea what the EPA's thinking is on that.

I'm very much in favor of protecting our environment, and the EPA has done some very good work there, but I often have no idea what the EPA's thinking in certain areas.

-ERD50

I have parallel thoughts on EPA's thinking, especially after dealing with their policies for 30+ years.

 

[MRG]

Thanks for all your time and effort here. It's funny that EPA views spills of liquid mercury as a huge problem along pipeline corridors where the liquid gets in the soil at the base of the meter stations with old, broken or abused mercury meters in them. Clean up is generally enforced by EPA and is in the <10 parts per billion range. No vapors there! I guess they worry about prairie dogs and lizards eating the mercury?

My uneducated guess is the concern of getting it into the water table. Many parts of the country you are not supposed to eat the fish you catch due to the amount of mercury they contain.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Sites like Scientific American have the same warnings and refer to the EPA instructions:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-compact-fluorescent-lightbulbs-dangerous/

Included in the instructions on the Scientific American site - open windows, air out the room, get all the people and pets out of the room, shut off your furnace, wear gloves, use duct tape to pick up fragments, put in glass jar or bag, put the bag outside, vacuums or broom can spread mercury to other parts of the house.

You guys might be right that the risk is minimal, but I try to limit, if I can, the number of items in my house that have to be disposed of at a hazardous waste site, especially when LEDs are mercury free and also use less energy. Our local Costco has inexpensive LEDs and the utility has instant rebates at some big box stores.

NPR has an article with concerns over the cumulative impact of the bulbs going into landfills and impact on workers who handle trash and waste for a living:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198

 

[ERD50]

...
You guys might be right that the risk is minimal, but I try to limit, if I can, the number of items in my house that have to be disposed of at a hazardous waste site, especially when LEDs are mercury free and also use less energy. ...

I've never really liked CFLs, but I do use them in several high-use sockets where I'm OK with the light quality (which isn't bad in some cases). I think CFLs will be such a transitional product, that in 30 years they will show up in those quizzes - "Guess what this is?" and kids will have no idea.

I hope LEDs continue to come down in price and I hope they will be reliable (that 20,000 hour life is a bogus number). I have just one so far, a dim-able one. Just a little odd as is it in a fixture with two filament bulbs, and when you dim them, they get yellow/orange, and the LED stays 'white-ish'.

And I hope they standardize on some LED assemblies for new light fixtures. I understand that they need to feed the bulb replacement market, but fitting LEDs into the old Edison bulb form factor is not the way to use new technology. A filament bulb needs to be small to concentrate the heat so that filament can get white-hot. But LEDs (and their driver circuits) need to be cool for long life. The LED itself gives of far less heat (being more efficient) than a filament, but that heat is concentrated onto that small LED, so the temperature goes up.

It would be better if new light fixtures had the LEDs spread out so they have room to cool, and with the driver circuit further away from the heat. This would be easy in most lamps if it was designed in, but fitting all that in an Edison style bulb is what creates the heat and reliability problems.

It's like trying to put horseshoes on an automobile instead of tires. Gotta change with the technology.

I actually bought a strip of LEDs to play with, I might install them in our kitchen to replace the old, sometimes buzzy, sometimes flickery fluorescent tube lights. Lots of room in that fixture, and spreading the LEDs on those strips should disperse the light and keep everything cool.


-ERD50

 

[mpeirce]

I actually bought a strip of LEDs to play with, I might install them in our kitchen to replace the old, sometimes buzzy, sometimes flickery fluorescent tube lights. Lots of room in that fixture, and spreading the LEDs on those strips should disperse the light and keep everything cool.

Strings of LED lights under cabinets in the kitchen great.

When we did some kitchen updating, we replaced the old (flickery) florescent tubes under the cabinets with LEDs. They are very good at brightening up counter tops. And they use so little power that we just leave them on all day.

 

[aja8888]

I actually bought a strip of LEDs to play with, I might install them in our kitchen to replace the old, sometimes buzzy, sometimes flickery fluorescent tube lights. Lots of room in that fixture, and spreading the LEDs on those strips should disperse the light and keep everything cool.


-ERD50

I ran a 36" string of LEDs under the shelf beyond the lid in my VW Passat's trunk as the one small bulb in the corner of the trunk did not provide any light at night. Now my trunk is a "light show" at night when I open it. Stck them on with 3M adhesive automotive tape roll. Connected the + and - to the existing light socket.

 

[ERD50]

Strings of LED lights under cabinets in the kitchen great.

When we did some kitchen updating, we replaced the old (flickery) florescent tubes under the cabinets with LEDs. They are very good at brightening up counter tops. And they use so little power that we just leave them on all day.

This is a ceiling fixture over the sink, so it will need to be more lumens than under-cabinet lighting would likely be (but I should probably do that too, that is nice!).

Here's what I bought - looks like it will take 3-4 to match the light of two 40W tubes - though maybe the directionality will make them appear brighter? This task is pretty far down on my list though...

Amazon.com: HitLights Warm White SMD3528 LED Light Strip - 300 LEDs, 16.4 Ft Roll, Cut to length - 3000K, 82 Lumens / 1.5 Watts per foot, Requires 12V DC: Musical Instruments

-ERD50

 

[daylatedollarshort]

We have battery powered, motion detector LEDs around the house. If we are late coming home the dog can walk around the house and the lights turn on and off for him. I use rechargeable batteries charged with a solar charger.

I just got some string LEDs that are little fireflies. For now I have them circled in mason jars. They look like this, but mine are battery not solar, though I do have a solar light mason jar lamp on the patio.

Solar Firefly Jar Decorative Outdoor Light | Solar Accents

 

[ERD50]

I ran a 36" string of LEDs under the shelf beyond the lid in my VW Passat's trunk as the one small bulb in the corner of the trunk did not provide any light at night. Now my trunk is a "light show" at night when I open it. Stck them on with 3M adhesive automotive tape roll. Connected the + and - to the existing light socket.

One thing to be careful about there - if they are truly designed for 12V (they often are), a car battery is more typically 13.6 V, and often 14.4 V while running/charging.


Most of these little strings use series resistors to limit the LED current (rather than an active electronic 'driver'). Bottom line, a small increase in voltage can mean a large increase in LED current, and burning out of the LEDs. Mathematically, the LED probably runs @ about 3.3V, they use three in series, so 9.9V (say 10V). So 12V-10V is 2V across the resistor. Increase the voltage to 14V and you have doubled the voltage across the resistor, doubling the current to the LEDs.

That's a little bit of a simplification (the LED voltage isn't quite that constant versus current), but pretty close.

-ERD50

 

[MRG]

I put in 3 Mr. Beam motion detection battery powered LEDs in pantry. Works great I can find what's in there. Including multiple items we'd bought as we couldn't find them.

 

[Nunthewiser]

^^ I bought a somewhat similar but brighter (I think) 5 meter roll of 5050RGB that I was going to fool around with. I plunked it in the light shelf above my bedroom and there it sits. It is quite novel how many colors and effects it can do with its remote control, and quite bright. But I really only need white light....

 

[aja8888]

One thing to be careful about there - if they are truly designed for 12V (they often are), a car battery is more typically 13.6 V, and often 14.4 V while running/charging.


Most of these little strings use series resistors to limit the LED current (rather than an active electronic 'driver'). Bottom line, a small increase in voltage can mean a large increase in LED current, and burning out of the LEDs. Mathematically, the LED probably runs @ about 3.3V, they use three in series, so 9.9V (say 10V). So 12V-10V is 2V across the resistor. Increase the voltage to 14V and you have doubled the voltage across the resistor, doubling the current to the LEDs.

That's a little bit of a simplification (the LED voltage isn't quite that constant versus current), but pretty close.

-ERD50

The ECU in my 2014 Passat monitors and adjusts all the voltages to the car, including each light bulb. I can, and have, used my Ross Tech software package (VAG back engineered diagnostic software) to monitor and adjust light voltages, especially for the headlights as I can run it up to 13 VDC. Headlights are a bit brighter. HIDs are the next upgrade for me once I find the time to install projector lenses in the headlight housings and retro fit the HID bulb and ballast.

Take a look at this:

Ross-Tech: Home

Cars are way more sophisticated than in past years, especially now that most cars have several "modules" to control and monitor various functions (engine, transmission, comfort control, safety systems, braking, ESP, etc.).

In a lot of newer cars, LEDs are replacing traditional filament bulbs as a matter of course. In my previous Passat (2005), I installed several LEDs in tail lights, trunk lights, interior, etc. Only in that car was I required to install a ballast resistor in the tail light wiring because I would get a "light out" indication on the dash as when the ECU was doing its pre-start check of each light, it did not see the resistance of the filament in the old light and threw a warning.

Really, take a good look at the Ross Tech stuff, you will be amazed at what the possibilities are.

 

[ERD50]

The ECU in my 2014 Passat monitors and adjusts all the voltages to the car, including each light bulb. ....

Thanks for that info - I didn't know that! Hmmm, I'll try checking the bulb sockets in the 'new' car in our place, a 2011 Honda CR-V. My Volvo is a turn-of-the-century model, I still have to trim the wicks in its lights!

In my previous Passat (2005), I installed several LEDs in tail lights, trunk lights, interior, etc. Only in that car was I required to install a ballast resistor in the tail light wiring because I would get a "light out" indication on the dash as when the ECU was doing its pre-start check of each light, it did not see the resistance of the filament in the old light and threw a warning.

I had to do something similar when I switched to CFLs on my front outside lights, which had a timer in place of one wall switch. The timer relied on a trickle current through the filaments, and a CFL would not complete the circuit. I got by with a small filament bulb in one socket.

-ERD50

 

[aja8888]

Thanks for that info - I didn't know that! Hmmm, I'll try checking the bulb sockets in the 'new' car in our place, a 2011 Honda CR-V. My Volvo is a turn-of-the-century model, I still have to trim the wicks in its lights!




I had to do something similar when I switched to CFLs on my front outside lights, which had a timer in place of one wall switch. The timer relied on a trickle current through the filaments, and a CFL would not complete the circuit. I got by with a small filament bulb in one socket.

-ERD50

You can buy LED kits for (modern) cars to replace OEM bulbs in the interior, marker lights, trunk lights, etc for under $100. The newer LED bulbs usually come with a ballast resister built into the bulb. Those LEDs certainly make a nice difference, especially with map lights and door puddle lights.

 

[dtbach]

I'm not buying the 22 year life though on these things. I put in a Cree 60W less than a year ago and the damn thing died! Great, spend $14 on the thing and it doesn't last any longer than an ordinary incandescent. I'm making sure to keep receipts on these things from now on. I bet they don't last anywhere near as long as they claim.

 

[razztazz]

I'm not buying the 22 year life though on these things. I put in a Cree 60W less than a year ago and the damn thing died! Great, spend $14 on the thing and it doesn't last any longer than an ordinary incandescent. I'm making sure to keep receipts on these things from now on. I bet they don't last anywhere near as long as they claim.

It's an average lifespan. Some bulbs will last 100 years, some will last 200 years. But they're designed to average out to 22 years.

 

[ERD50]

I'm not buying the 22 year life though on these things. .... .

It's an average lifespan. Some bulbs will last 100 years, some will last 200 years. But they're designed to average out to 22 years.

No, it's not even that. From my earlier post:

The sad fact is - that '22 year estimated life', isn't.

It's a calculation based on how much a bulb dims over a shorter time (months?), and they extrapolate that out a 70% dim level.

It really has nothing to do with the electronics going belly up and having the bulb go out completely, leaving you in the dark (probably what happened to yours). ...

-ERD50

I'm looking to see if there is any data on real MTBF rather than this silly dimming spec.

-ERD50

 

[razztazz]

Originally Posted by dtbach View Post
I'm not buying the 22 year life though on these things. .... .

Originally Posted by razztazz View Post
It's an average lifespan. Some bulbs will last 100 years, some will last 200 years. But they're designed to average out to 22 years.

No, it's not even that. From my earlier post:

Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
The sad fact is - that '22 year estimated life', isn't.

It's a calculation based on how much a bulb dims over a shorter time (months?), and they extrapolate that out a 70% dim level.

It really has nothing to do with the electronics going belly up and having the bulb go out completely, leaving you in the dark (probably what happened to yours). ...

-ERD50

By the way: I was just trying to be funny with that "averaging out" thing.

 

[dtbach]

By the way: I was just trying to be funny with that "averaging out" thing.

I kind of figured that. I like the LED bulbs over the CFL ones, but in both cases, I don't think either lasts as long as claimed. BS marketing as far as I'm concerned.

 

[springnr]

The led bulb control/voltage conversion circuitry life is a work in progress, yet it appears led bulbs are being rated for the led diode life without taking the whole package into consideration.

I recently installed 30 Feit 65 watt dim-able BR30 2700K 93 CRI in my recessed/downlight sockets. The 2700K matches the color temperature we are used to in incandescent bulbs while the high CRI rating of 93 means that the color spectrum is maintained true, great for cooking, picking which socks match, etc.
(During installation I ended up using needle nose pliers to slightly bend the fixture socket as the led bulbs necks were slightly wider that the standard incandescent bulbs)

The change over ran right at $200 as the local Seattle area Costco stores offer an automatic rebate from Puget Sound Energy, the bulbs are about half price at $7 apiece. I kept the receipts in case of early bulb demise, although I'm pretty sure Costco keeps your member purchase info as I recently returned an item for the first time and they had the purchase data. (right handy)

No cost savings data as they were installed last month, but most are in banks of 4 on a dimmer, and the leds are brighter than the incandescent bulbs they replaced and I have them set at ~ 2/3 power. Due to the high CRI fo 93 they must filter out some of the yellow spectrum, as a result these bulbs consume around 13 watts instead of 10w, still a bank of 4 led bulbs now consumes the power one previous incandescent required.

 

[EastWest Gal]

An suggestions on LED landscape lighting? Two fixtures of our wired in lights are not working but the bulbs are fine. I wonder if there are any really good solar/battery LED fixtures that one can turn off? We need to redo the lighting by the pool this summer.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[sengsational]

I kind of figured that. I like the LED bulbs over the CFL ones, but in both cases, I don't think either lasts as long as claimed. BS marketing as far as I'm concerned.

Yep. When the math works with the guarantee that's in the fine-print, then I'll consider it. The CFL guarantees have worked ok for me...didn't have to send them back, just needed to call them with a few values from the receipt and the packaging or from the bulb. Seemed kind of silly to mess around like that for a $4.22 check, but it's the principle of the thing. Especially when the marketing was 7 years and it lasted less than 2.