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Old 05-30-2022, 09:58 AM   #61
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Annuities like other insurance products are a gamble. If you’re healthy and live a long life, you can come out way ahead. I’m sure these companies make a large amount of their profits by those who die before ever getting back their original investment that the company gets to keep.
Yep. Same as a pension / gamble wise. A lot of folks had defined benefit pensions that turned into "cash balance plans". After fully implementing the then new 401k. With annuity options. Insured up to around $5000 a month. Mine was less than that, and took it when the rate was around 5 1/2% 6 yrs ago. Best decision I have made. Could have rolled it into a IRA, but my plan is to get that money out, rather than to add to it.
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Old 05-30-2022, 11:06 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracer View Post
Annuities like other insurance products are a gamble. If you’re healthy and live a long life, you can come out way ahead. I’m sure these companies make a large amount of their profits by those who die before ever getting back their original investment that the company gets to keep.
I've explained this before, that pensions and lifetime annuities work on a pooled concept where money "left over" from folks who die on the early side goes to pay those long-lived folks who live into their 90s.

Insurance companies definitely make a profit on the composite, actuarially managed annuity business and this is important, so that they stay strong and are unlikely to go bust.

If you don't believe my explanation about pooled money and short vs long lived retirees, that's completely fine...
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Old 05-30-2022, 11:45 AM   #63
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Investing over decades of time has usually beaten annuity products even if you live to 90-95.


this annuity sounds fabulous .

it is the prudential bond index deferred annuity with a guaranteed 5.50% growth rate .

so lets look under the hood .

this annuity is linked to a bond index .
it will give you the higher of what the index does or a guaranteed 5.50% .
sounds sweet .

so we see if we give them 100k at age 55 and let it grow for 10 years that with a 2.50% expense , there is no way the bond index will beat the guarantee of 5.50% which includes expenses .
so basically the index is for show .
[

we see below if we give them 100k at age 55 and defer to 65 to start , we have the 100k compounding to 180,209 .
you really did get 5.50% . but now watch how that goes away .
you cant take that 180k nor can heirs get it . it sits in a virtual account not your account and it is used only as a base for your annuity draw .
so you gave them 100k at age 55 , you start drawing money at 65 .
it takes until age 76 to get your own money back out . that is 20 years at zero return .
you see the first penny of their money at 77 . your return for 21 years is now .44% .
even if you lived to 90 you saw less than 4%
so because they control how much of the virtual account you actually see they can guaranttee you anything and it does not matter .
if you notice while you are deferring and growing out of the 5.50% each year you get they are only allowing you to see 1/10% more of it



by the way , what your heirs get is your actual account balance less all the money drawn out over the years , less the 2.50% expense each year .
after a number of years that is likely zero and you are running only on the virtual account balance no one can touch
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Old 05-30-2022, 01:17 PM   #64
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Some are better than others. Thats for sure.. And some like several forms of income (buckets) with different risk levels. If I had to rely solely on the stock market in retirement. I would still be working. As I would not be able to relax. Just me.
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Old 05-30-2022, 07:28 PM   #65
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Some are better than others. Thats for sure.. And some like several forms of income (buckets) with different risk levels. If I had to rely solely on the stock market in retirement. I would still be working. As I would not be able to relax. Just me.
Yeah, me too. I want some income of some kind coming in while the markets do their thing. My pension and SS allow me to more or less ignore the ups and downs of the markets. YMMV
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Old 05-30-2022, 07:35 PM   #66
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Yeah, me too. I want some income of some kind coming in while the markets do their thing. My pension and SS allow me to more or less ignore the ups and downs of the markets. YMMV
Well stated.
My commercial real estate VA from TIAA has been increasing my payment each month over the past year while the stock market has been correcting.
So I'm happy for that and have a negative withdrawal rate for now...
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