Adult Children Inheritance

[OldShooter]

... OTOH, the 4 non-disable siblings way find a way to work in perfect harmony, share the management responsibilities equitably and effiiciently, reach consensus in all decisions, etc. But there just might be a bit of risk there.......

Yes. That's why I suggested (post 15) that the four move to set up a special needs trust now, while the goodwill glow is still on them. There will be language terminating the trust upon the death of the beneficiary; that language can divide the remainder into four and return one share to each grantor.

 

[brett]

It is unclear to me how anyone can determine what is in someone's mind as they complete their will.

If anything, this should give us pause to think about what we want in our will, to get the advice of an experienced wills/estate/family practice lawyer, and to take the effort to change or update our will as circumstances change.

I friend of my spouse, a senior, is purposely excluding one of her sons from her will. She has reason to do so.

It will exclude any of her estranged son's children, should there be any, whom she has never met.

She has gone to great pains to have her will drawn up in such a way that it cannot be challenged.

Bottom line is that it is her estate, her decision. A person not familiar with her family situation and history may think this is a terrible thing to do however her reasons are solid.

We know of many people in our age group whose wills reflect monies flowing directly to their children, in the case of deceased children to grandchildren, but purposely excluding SIL's and DIL's.



My sister is in exactly the same position vis a vis her only son. She will not leave him dime one.

 

[Sunset]

It is unclear to me how anyone can determine what is in someone's mind as they complete their will.

If anything, this should give us pause to think about what we want in our will, to get the advice of an experienced wills/estate/family practice lawyer, and to take the effort to change or update our will as circumstances change.

I friend of my spouse, a senior, is purposely excluding one of her sons from her will. She has reason to do so.

It will exclude any of her estranged son's children, should there be any, whom she has never met.

She has gone to great pains to have her will drawn up in such a way that it cannot be challenged.

Bottom line is that it is her estate, her decision. A person not familiar with her family situation and history may think this is a terrible thing to do however her reasons are solid.

We know of many people in our age group whose wills reflect monies flowing directly to their children, in the case of deceased children to grandchildren, but purposely excluding SIL's and DIL's.

My sister is in exactly the same position vis a vis her only son. She will not leave him dime one.

My Mom did this with one of her children, not a penny, put the reasons in the Will so nobody thought it was a mistake/oversight (how could you forget about a child )

Bill Gates is only going to leave 0.007xx percent, about 7/1,000 ths of his estate to his kids. If I had $1M and told my kids I'll leave them $7,000 each, I'm sure they would contest the Will.

 

[Sunset]

That sure sounds contradictory to me. IANAL. I would think that wording would be subject to interpretation which means a court could have to determine the intent and rule on the proper beneficiaries.

I'm really hoping everyone with stirpes lives the entire 30 days, to make it all simpler and a moot point.

 

[Drake3287]

If the trust said it went to living children, then that right there leaves out any child who precedes the mother. If there was no provision for "per stirpes" then if a child precedes the mother, there is no provision to pass it down to the next generation. It all depends on how the trust was worded. It's not an issue of fair/unfair, it's all in the wording of the trust. But I tend to agree with Ray and donheff. It may not have been the mother's intention and was just a poorly worded trust.

Exact perfect answer whether you agree with it or not. No one can second guess the intentions of the deceased person and any decent attorney would have brought up this situation at the time it was written. Nothing breaks up family relations more then inheritance issues.

 

[Golden sunsets]

When my grandmother died she left all her assets to her two sons. Her two daughters got zip. My mother got nothing. My deceased aunt’s children got nothing.

I learned a lesson from this. My kids all get the same percent. If one dies before me, their share goes to their kids.

By the way, the lawyer I consulted walked me through all of this. At her suggestion I even have an heir listed in the unlikely event that all my children and grandchildren predecessor me.

This is so sad. If you don't mind sharing, why did your GM feel her daughters and/or their children didn't deserve a share?

 

[Delawaredave5]

Looking for opinion? My DWs Mother passed away and left a TRUST to her living 5 children. 1 of the 5 children passed away before her death. When the trust was distributed the grandchildren of the deceased sister received nothing? Only the living children so it was divided 4 ways vs 5. I was curious about why or if this seemed fair.

That must have been deliberate. Per Stirpes was surely explained to her by lawyer.

"Fair" has a lot of wide interpretations.....

 

[ncbill]

I much prefer trusts over wills.

Right now my DW's aunt's will is being contested by her out-of-state birth family with whom auntie hadn't had contact with for over 20 years before she died.

No kids, her husband pre-deceased her by more than 5 years, yet she never updated her will after he died...will left everything to him, then to her mother (dead for decades, of course), then ultimately to her nieces/nephews.

Her birth family is now arguing that no niece/nephew born since the auntie's mom died is eligible to inherit, which would exclude many on DW's side of the family, though not DW herself.

And no, I don't know their legal reasoning, but again, had the aunt updated her will when her husband died to remove him & her long-dead mother I doubt they'd even able to bring such a challenge.

 

[FireFool]

Interesting and timely topic. BIL passed 3 weeks ago. No wife/kids. So intent is to leave it to is 5 surviving siblings. BUT - one of the siblings is disabled with mental health issues and cannot handle a large sum of money. (Plus it might impact his disability... not sure). BIL set up his will to leave his estate to his 4 siblings that are not disabled - but told them to take care of the disabled brother with the extra money.

I'm not a lawyer, so perhaps an unfounded worry, but despite how honorable the siblings may be I'd worry about a divorce pulling the funds intended for the disabled brother away from their intended purpose. Thankfully none of my children are disabled, but it seems that in those situations trusts appear to be wise.

 

[RetireeRobert]

Have a SIL (wife's sister) who inherited an extra share at their mom's death. Wife and SIL had two brothers, and one is mentally disabled, in institution, and on SSI. Mother did not want to set up special needs trust for the disabled son. "Too much trouble and more legal expense" was the excuse. Instead, mother had her trust drafted stating that SIL would receive a half share instead of a quarter share, wife would get quarter share, and the other brother would get quarter share. Mother's intent was SIL would "caretake" the extra funds that would otherwise go to disabled brother. But it was on an "honor" system! Long story short, my wife is now passed, the other brother is now passed, and only the SIL and disabled brother are still alive. Disabled brother has no knowledge of his share held by SIL. And since he is a ward of the state, and can get SSI only if his assets do not exceed minimal amounts, he is likely to never "need" his share. So, SIL at this point can basically do with those funds whatever she wants. In fairness, SIL did do a lot of unpaid caretaking for mother before mother passed, so perhaps this entire situation is "fair" in the grand scheme of things.

 

[bclover]

Difficult to know what was this was her real intent.

One thing for certain, she had every right to select who among her children, and her grandchildren were to share in her estate. And she apparently consulted a lawyer to do exactly that.

one of the reasons why I plan on spending down my money. Everyone immediately starts arguing about what is "fair". Here's my thought. It's my money, what is fair is what I decide to do with it.

I had a younger brother who unfortunately could not get his act together. He was a deadbeat dad and just had issues. when my dad died he got nothing and my father's will left a gift to his two kids. He screamed and hollered about how "unfair" it was, how he was going to sue for his "fair share".

LOL I'm a widow and one of the funniest questions my youngest asked me was when he was about 22 and wanted to buy an audi. lol he was in college and pumped gas. of course he couldn't afford it and promptly said "didn't Dad leave me any money" still get a lot of laughs over that one.

anyhoo, God willing I will live quite a few years longer. right now my will does split every thing equally after a few gifts to charitable organizations I support. They will be two houses they will have to deal with. they actually don't think they will inherit much.
I tell them all the time, "you went to college without loans", have been to Europe a number of times, and got help with home purchasing. The rest is on you.


Op, what is fair is whatever Mother in law decided to do.

 

[Raygun99]

Op, what is fair is whatever Mother in law decided to do.[/QUOTE]

As an OP follow up to all of the thought provoking comments. Although the deceased sibliling's children received nothing they are very fortunate to have a very large inheritance from their father's estate.

But to note the original premise is the Mother did not set up the estate. Her brother set it up from their mother's inherited estate. I suspect she never understood the ramifications of any of her siblings passing excluded their family.

All in all it was a great discussion that helped my DW and I sort out the proper language for our final wishes.

 

[ivinsfan]

My first cousin died with no spouse , no kids, no living parents and no will. His assets which were almost a million bucks were divided by the state like this....they listed all the Aunt and Uncles, maternal and paternal and did an even split. If the Aunt or Uncles has died (as in my case) the money was split evenly between the children of the A/U, if the child of the A/U had died their portion was split between any children they had.


BTW the lawyers were the ones that made out like bandits on this deal.

 

[ZachTB]

Looking for opinion? My DWs Mother passed away and left a TRUST to her living 5 children. 1 of the 5 children passed away before her death. When the trust was distributed the grandchildren of the deceased sister received nothing? Only the living children so it was divided 4 ways vs 5. I was curious about why or if this seemed fair. Since its not mine to spend I was not too concerened but it raised a question about our own estate.

In our retirement plan the beneficiaries are our = 3 children but also the "chldren of any direct deceased child"

I guess now I am curious if there are some rational thoughts on if we should have made it to only the living children same as her Mother? I had always just assumed 3 equal shares: My scenario is 3 children 2 are married : One (age 40) had 2 children (age 13-14) and later divorced then remarried. One (age 36) is married with no children. One age (38) is not married . Am I over thinking this?

Raygun99 - it's definitely a complex topic, and I'm not sure it's possible to overthink it!

There are books on estate planning (not very interesting, I'm sure), but a better approach might actually be to sit down with an attorney who specializes in estate planning. A good one has experience and will foresee traps and snafus that have caught other people.

Something like estate planning is highly personal and not easily summarized in a book or a forum (or a YouTube video).

 

[RetMD21]

Something like estate planning is highly personal and not easily summarized in a book or a forum (or a YouTube video).

I'm a fan of getting professional help for things that you do rarely. I am not an expert but we got a trust for its many advantages for our situation. I thought I wanted a professional trustee but out estate planning lawyer told us some stories and it turns out that my cousin was more than happy to agree to be the initial trustee.

 

[Sunset]

Have a SIL (wife's sister) who inherited an extra share at their mom's death. Wife and SIL had two brothers, and one is mentally disabled, in institution, and on SSI. Mother did not want to set up special needs trust for the disabled son. "Too much trouble and more legal expense" was the excuse. Instead, mother had her trust drafted stating that SIL would receive a half share instead of a quarter share, wife would get quarter share, and the other brother would get quarter share. Mother's intent was SIL would "caretake" the extra funds that would otherwise go to disabled brother. But it was on an "honor" system! Long story short, my wife is now passed, the other brother is now passed, and only the SIL and disabled brother are still alive. Disabled brother has no knowledge of his share held by SIL. And since he is a ward of the state, and can get SSI only if his assets do not exceed minimal amounts, he is likely to never "need" his share. So, SIL at this point can basically do with those funds whatever she wants. In fairness, SIL did do a lot of unpaid caretaking for mother before mother passed, so perhaps this entire situation is "fair" in the grand scheme of things.

I had a client in a similar position, so the family bought a condo apt with some of the trust money. Enabled the client to live in a nice neighborhood while still not owning any assets.
I couldn't afford that apt back then, as it was really nice.

 

[ZachTB]

I'm a fan of getting professional help for things that you do rarely. I am not an expert but we got a trust for its many advantages for our situation. I thought I wanted a professional trustee but out estate planning lawyer told us some stories and it turns out that my cousin was more than happy to agree to be the initial trustee.

That makes a lot of sense

 

[Rambler]

My parents’ setup is the same as the OP. If one of us kids precedes them in death, their estate is divide by one less sibling. That sibling’s kids receive nothing (monetary anyway). We haven’t been that specific with ours, but we are thinking about that and a few other stipulations. If the (currently hypothetical) stipulations aren’t met, that child would not have an inheritance and that portion would go to a third or fourth party. Said hypothetical stipulations revolve mainly around personal responsibility and things like substance abuse.

 

[RetireeRobert]

My wife and I had our RLT set up so that each of the three kids gets an equal share after we are both gone. Then it is "per stirpes"---If a kid predeceases us, then their children get that kid's share.

 

[catii]

Not dividing equally seems unfair.

Not in all cases. My youngest sister lived next door to our parents, while I lived 3000 miles away, & our other sister was about 2000 miles away. I contributed, when asked, but youngest sister bought them a house, mortgage-free!, while other sister contributed zilch.

So, I wasn't surprised when parents' wills & trusts left most to youngest sister. I wouldn't have had it any other way.

 

[donheff]

My parents’ setup is the same as the OP. If one of us kids precedes them in death, their estate is divide by one less sibling. That sibling’s kids receive nothing (monetary anyway). We haven’t been that specific with ours, but we are thinking about that and a few other stipulations. If the (currently hypothetical) stipulations aren’t met, that child would not have an inheritance and that portion would go to a third or fourth party. Said hypothetical stipulations revolve mainly around personal responsibility and things like substance abuse.

Did your parents tell you why they cut out the orphaned kids? Do you and your siblings like this arrangement?

 

[isisdave]

Every case is different, so there's no universally "right" way.

Is it possible that when the first sibling died, the parents made a gift to her kids via some other method, so they could benefit immediately instead of waiting for their death?

 

[SpinDoctorTX]

"Our" inheritance from DD was zip. He left all to his 2nd wife which I expected, and at the time I told my siblings to expect nada and get over it. We too have mom & pop wills, with our mutual agreement that whomever outlives the other will make proper adjustments with a new will.

We hope to spend every extra dime we have together, leaving only real property to be sorted out.