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Old 05-01-2021, 03:01 AM   #41
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Your comment that this board chastises anyone who has made it and continues to work is pure fabrication. Those comments come when somebody is struggling internally with OMY syndrome and wants input from others who did the same.



We don't tell people to work or not work we answer questions about how much is enough money and how much is enough work.
Perhaps chastising was a poor word on my part.
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Old 05-01-2021, 04:17 AM   #42
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I was ahead of the curve 4 years ago.
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Affluent Americans rush to retire - Article
Old 05-01-2021, 08:45 AM   #43
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Affluent Americans rush to retire - Article

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Originally Posted by Closet_Gamer View Post

I went at it hammer and tongs with my boss two days ago. I've never been shy about making my opinions known regardless of someone's position in the company, but I just really wasn't willing to put up with his moodiness running down my people and their hard work. I think he was surprised when I decided that two of us could have angry emotions and raise our voices at the same time.


This is positive, in a sense, that one can have such direct communication with one’s boss. At the same time, isn’t it strange that two adults ever need to go at it “hammer and tongs” at all? The higher I rose in the organization, the more I had to confront people on behalf of my team, whether HR bureaucrats, underhanded or oblivious program managers who did something toxic to me or us, or my bosses. Or, I was increasingly the recipient of incoming harshness from others for one thing or another that my team or I didn’t do, in their siloed opinions, not caring about our team’s larger obligations to the organization. Or maybe one of my team members or I did something that offended someone and had to be worked out over awkward “coffee” off site.

I took my work responsibilities seriously but, a few years ago, I started looking around and realized, “Is this really how adults have to behave? I go through the rest of my daily life without ever having to close the door, hoping to calmly resolve something, only to end up in a shouting match with someone who didn’t attend the “Dealing with Conflict” seminar and generally got their way by presenting as a bully. Do I really need to spend days in emotional turmoil before and after, and losing sleep? Maybe there’s a better way, and I can eliminate 100% of the problem altogether, at its very source.”

So I did. It’s been 10 months with no such confrontations with anyone, and a massive relief. With the major irritant of my life eliminated, I’m more balanced and centered. Of course, in marriage, two people have to try to work out little things constantly so that they don’t become big things, but DW and I are better able to disagree without being disagreeable without the background of my intense work stress. She eliminated her own 3 years ago this month.
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Old 05-01-2021, 09:35 AM   #44
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I had a dentist for 24 years until he retired in 2013 at age 81. He was working only a few days a week the last several years. He was a gentle, compassionate man, enabling me to overcome my fear of dentists, and save my teeth. His replacement is in his early 40s, part of a father-son practice with his dad. It's a more high-tech office when it comes to computerizing administrative tasks.

My other doctors range in age from 62 to 73, and they have been treating me since 2015 when I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes while fixing other unrelated ailments. Some of them have mentioned retiring "soon" but are going strong. Several of them are part of larger practices with other doctors, so a transition to someone else there would probably be not too difficult.
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Old 05-01-2021, 10:36 AM   #45
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Just lost a really good dentist at the local chain practice. He moved to open his own practice, too far away to make continuing to see him, practical.

I don't blame him - he has a growing family, and this is his chance - but the whole office has lost something.

OTOH, about 10 years ago, I was devastated to lose a long-time dentist, the nicest lady in the world and a very excellent practitioner. She was forced to retire in her mid-50s because her tiny hands were growing crippled with arthritis. But after her replacement started working on our teeth, I realized that my former dentist had not been in top form for some time.

Mr. A. and I both had crowns of hers fail early - turned out mine had never been permanently cemented! (Even though I came in for all scheduled appts). Also, the office immediately fired her favorite assistant, whom I could not stand. Evidently, neither could anybody else :-) A much better one came in with the new dentist.

So, change can be for the better.
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Old 05-01-2021, 10:48 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by disneysteve View Post
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ource=url_link


Apparently I'm trendy. This describes me perfectly. I've gone from expecting to work until 62 to thinking I might be able to cut back at 60 to now trying to nail things down and make 58 or 59 happen. I can totally relate to this article.
This is exactly my situation! I was going to go to 62, then backed it to 60 -61.Now I have formally told my partners I'm out at 59 1/2, and I'm rethinking my needs to the point that I might quit at 58 1/2, which is one more year.
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Old 05-01-2021, 10:48 AM   #47
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My father retired at 58/59 in 1980 for health reasons. High stress job. After retirement his health situation recovered to normal.

I retired at 58/59 in 2011. Had the chance of a golden handshake plus we were fortunate to have the financial resources that make it a no brainer. Best thing we ever did. Never looked back. Low inflation, substantial equity growth, and good health.

My only regret...wish I had done it two or three years earlier.
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Old 05-01-2021, 11:31 AM   #48
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This is positive, in a sense, that one can have such direct communication with one’s boss. At the same time, isn’t it strange that two adults ever need to go at it “hammer and tongs” at all? The higher I rose in the organization, the more I had to confront people on behalf of my team, whether HR bureaucrats, underhanded or oblivious program managers who did something toxic to me or us, or my bosses. Or, I was increasingly the recipient of incoming harshness from others for one thing or another that my team or I didn’t do, in their siloed opinions, not caring about our team’s larger obligations to the organization. Or maybe one of my team members or I did something that offended someone and had to be worked out over awkward “coffee” off site.

I took my work responsibilities seriously but, a few years ago, I started looking around and realized, “Is this really how adults have to behave? I go through the rest of my daily life without ever having to close the door, hoping to calmly resolve something, only to end up in a shouting match with someone who didn’t attend the “Dealing with Conflict” seminar and generally got their way by presenting as a bully. Do I really need to spend days in emotional turmoil before and after, and losing sleep? Maybe there’s a better way, and I can eliminate 100% of the problem altogether, at its very source.”

So I did. It’s been 10 months with no such confrontations with anyone, and a massive relief. With the major irritant of my life eliminated, I’m more balanced and centered. Of course, in marriage, two people have to try to work out little things constantly so that they don’t become big things, but DW and I are better able to disagree without being disagreeable without the background of my intense work stress. She eliminated her own 3 years ago this month.

Gosh. Reading this sent me right into stress mode. Reliving such times in my career. You describe it quite well. In fact, that’s exactly what the cr*p was like. And exactly why I targeted ER to escape. Yeesh. Don’t do this to me again
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Old 05-01-2021, 05:13 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Markola View Post
This is positive, in a sense, that one can have such direct communication with one’s boss. At the same time, isn’t it strange that two adults ever need to go at it “hammer and tongs” at all? The higher I rose in the organization, the more I had to confront people on behalf of my team, whether HR bureaucrats, underhanded or oblivious program managers who did something toxic to me or us, or my bosses. Or, I was increasingly the recipient of incoming harshness from others for one thing or another that my team or I didn’t do, in their siloed opinions, not caring about our team’s larger obligations to the organization. Or maybe one of my team members or I did something that offended someone and had to be worked out over awkward “coffee” off site.

I took my work responsibilities seriously but, a few years ago, I started looking around and realized, “Is this really how adults have to behave? I go through the rest of my daily life without ever having to close the door, hoping to calmly resolve something, only to end up in a shouting match with someone who didn’t attend the “Dealing with Conflict” seminar and generally got their way by presenting as a bully. Do I really need to spend days in emotional turmoil before and after, and losing sleep? Maybe there’s a better way, and I can eliminate 100% of the problem altogether, at its very source.”

So I did. It’s been 10 months with no such confrontations with anyone, and a massive relief. With the major irritant of my life eliminated, I’m more balanced and centered. Of course, in marriage, two people have to try to work out little things constantly so that they don’t become big things, but DW and I are better able to disagree without being disagreeable without the background of my intense work stress. She eliminated her own 3 years ago this month.
Bullies are really hard for organizations to handle. Who is strong enough to stand up to the manipulation, shouting matches, devious politics, bald faced lies, blame casting, wild accusations and general craziness and disruption? I worked at a place that while not perfect, had way fewer bullies than similar firms so we were able to attract top talent and do great work. Then the company got the brilliant idea to jump into other markets and somehow hired some bullies. It was wolves descending upon the sheep and in just a few years, they largely destroyed the distinct company culture that was 50 years in the making. So I took it as a sign and retired.
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Old 05-01-2021, 08:23 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by MuirWannabe View Post
Gosh. Reading this sent me right into stress mode. Reliving such times in my career. You describe it quite well. In fact, that’s exactly what the cr*p was like. And exactly why I targeted ER to escape. Yeesh. Don’t do this to me again


Sorry to dredge up the gunk for you, me or anyone. I was trying to help out ol’ Closet_Gamer and got carried away . Brrrrrrr...

I double checked with DW after I wrote that, and she agreed entirely that I’m a lot better off now post-j*b, as are we as a couple.
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Old 05-01-2021, 08:50 PM   #51
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Yes, they assumed that retirees would liquidate their portfolios directly upon retiring. Quite weird assumption, actually, and it didn't happen that way. You would expect retirees to draw on their investments over a long period of time.

But I remember dire warnings of massive selling ahead.
some fund managers worked on that assumption ( and maybe still do ) down here there can be a BIG focus on ( clients ) assets under management and 'total returns ' , which last year MOSTLY translated to capital gains ( or losses ) as dividend payouts were often slashed savagely ( or withheld completely )

i am HOPING to never draw-down on the actual portfolio but to use the dividend/interest revenue to fund my later years , so far that dividend income is in excess of my needs , so am reinvesting it where i sensibly can , but i can't expect that to happen if inflation explodes

BTW fund managers get fees for money coming in AND OUT ( but i never hear much about static accounts . aka no new money coming in .

so those 'warnings' may have been fund manager projections , assuming the clients would cash out and spend recklessly that nest egg at the end of their working life
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Old 05-02-2021, 03:21 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Markola View Post
This is positive, in a sense, that one can have such direct communication with one’s boss. At the same time, isn’t it strange that two adults ever need to go at it “hammer and tongs” at all? The higher I rose in the organization, the more I had to confront people on behalf of my team, whether HR bureaucrats, underhanded or oblivious program managers who did something toxic to me or us, or my bosses. Or, I was increasingly the recipient of incoming harshness from others for one thing or another that my team or I didn’t do, in their siloed opinions, not caring about our team’s larger obligations to the organization. Or maybe one of my team members or I did something that offended someone and had to be worked out over awkward “coffee” off site.

I took my work responsibilities seriously but, a few years ago, I started looking around and realized, “Is this really how adults have to behave? I go through the rest of my daily life without ever having to close the door, hoping to calmly resolve something, only to end up in a shouting match with someone who didn’t attend the “Dealing with Conflict” seminar and generally got their way by presenting as a bully. Do I really need to spend days in emotional turmoil before and after, and losing sleep? Maybe there’s a better way, and I can eliminate 100% of the problem altogether, at its very source.”

So I did. It’s been 10 months with no such confrontations with anyone, and a massive relief. With the major irritant of my life eliminated, I’m more balanced and centered. Of course, in marriage, two people have to try to work out little things constantly so that they don’t become big things, but DW and I are better able to disagree without being disagreeable without the background of my intense work stress. She eliminated her own 3 years ago this month.

This is why I'm looking forward to hanging it up...I actually still really like the industry and the kind of work I do.

I came home and told DW that we were not extending my contract unless we decided that once Covid cleared up we wanted another 6-12 months of living in London. Even then, we have enough dough to just decide to spend 6 months in Europe.

I know that I'm on the succession list for at least one more senior role in the company -- those things are never certain but I would legitimately be in the running. I'm actively considering taking my name off that list, though the knock on effects on my near term ability to do my job would be pretty high.

We'll see if my sentiment changes on this in the coming months...though I think budget season will be the final nail in the coffin when I deal with people who made decisions in March that come home to roost in September and then wonder why the multi-year plan needs to change.
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Old 05-02-2021, 03:54 AM   #53
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Interesting article and posts. I'm similar to Closet_gamer. I have a 3 year contract that got extended to five years and I'm at year two this summer. I had two reasons for going back to Germany, one professional with regard to a specific set of experiences and one personal with regard to some travel goals. Well, as we all know the travel goals have been put on hold. The professional experience has been quasi-interesting but not what was advertised and the environment is a very anxious one. I am a supervisor/leader and have a duty to buffer my team from the insanity above. That is exhausting sometimes, especially if you have been at higher levels before, so know what should be done and how above.

I've made a decision that if I am unable to do some travel by this fall, I am resigning/ retiring, although I will keep the small consulting side hustle as that is virtual, intellectually stimulating and well paid.

My stress right now is the anticipation of a large move back to the USA to an area that I like to visit but do not particularly see as my long term home. I have a duty to my elderly father (which I don't mind as I love him) to be with him in his later years.
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Old 05-02-2021, 11:34 AM   #54
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Well, obviously I am happy for my MD to be able to retire. Finding one that matched her abilities/bed side manner/etc is going to be tough, though. But I understand that it's a tough business these days and I am happy I am not an MD.

I was similarly dissatisfied when our vet in ATL sold his practice about a year before we left. He was/is a family friend and had been seeing the all the family's critters since 1982. We still haven't found a find a vet that was anywhere close to being as great as he was.


it could have been worse... we had our vet (before we left for retirement) pass due to cancer (it had recurred)... and she was probably the most knowledgeable we'd ever had
she never got to enjoy retirement at all
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Old 05-02-2021, 12:07 PM   #55
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Our bottom line was simple. We could not buy more years of retirement good health that would enable us to do what we want to do.

We can not even approximate with any certainty how many years, or even good years we have ahead of us.

We were able to do the financial calculations. But once all the financial models point to a secure financial position early or late, the decision comes back to years of good health vs more money.

We picked time. What surprised us....9 years post retirement our equity has doubled. So perhaps we have been able to get a bit of both.
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Old 05-02-2021, 12:22 PM   #56
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Good article thx for posting. I'm surprised it didn't mention the massive tax increases coming our way. I would think that a lot of people are making strategic moves to avoid the inevitable. I had planned on selling my company in '22 or '23 but now am going to fast track it and get it done this year. Who nows if there will be any retroactive or claw back taxes but sticking to the original plan will cost me a ton.
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Old 05-02-2021, 02:31 PM   #57
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Good article thx for posting. I'm surprised it didn't mention the massive tax increases coming our way. I would think that a lot of people are making strategic moves to avoid the inevitable. I had planned on selling my company in '22 or '23 but now am going to fast track it and get it done this year. Who nows if there will be any retroactive or claw back taxes but sticking to the original plan will cost me a ton.


Yes, if you’re making more than $400K/year, according to what the president said in his speech to Congress on Wednesday, which should make his proposal formal enough to discuss on the ER Forum, as I understand the rules.
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Old 05-02-2021, 02:36 PM   #58
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How about we wait until there’s actual legislation under consideration in congress before getting into taxes. Speeches and campaign rhetoric are, at best, wish lists.
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Old 05-02-2021, 02:55 PM   #59
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How about we wait until there’s actual legislation under consideration in congress before getting into taxes. Speeches and campaign rhetoric are, at best, wish lists.
This is a common concern here, so here is a simple guide:

We feel that discussion is only useful here when a bill has been assigned to a committee for their consideration and possible further action. Even then, nothing may come of it, since every committee receives far more bills than they can deal with in any detail.
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Old 05-03-2021, 01:24 PM   #60
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How about we wait until there’s actual legislation under consideration in congress before getting into taxes. Speeches and campaign rhetoric are, at best, wish lists.
that is so hard for some people to understand?
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