Alan Watts Quote Triggered Deep Thoughts

[Tekward]

Have you ever heard a quote that made you stop, rewind & think?

Alan Watts "We’ve run into a cultural situation where we’ve confused the symbol with the physical reality; the money with the wealth; and the menu with the dinner. And we’re starving on eating menus.”

Money is a great scorecard and it provides security and options, but most FIRE people recognize the goal is to save enough money to live your life now.

It's possible that the OMY syndrome is one symptom of the difficulty for moving from a scorecard/number/future focus to a live today paradigm.

Good After Skool video:

 

[Extra Medium]

Love that Alan Watts.

 

[latexman]

That's heavy, man.

 

[target2019]

Be Here Now

 

[ERD50]

OK, I held on for almost 5 minutes. Had to stop, because I just learned that Alan Watts is an idiot. I have no idea why anyone would look up to someone like this as a 'deep thinker'. Think for yourself!

So what got me thinking he is an idiot? When he says what's the point of having enough money to buy 5 cars, you can only drive one!

Now that there is some shallow thinking! Obviously, most of us have built up a large stash for our future needs, and for the unforeseen. This guy can't think that far ahead?

I feel like I'm in a real life "The Emperor's New Clothes" fable.

OK, if he somehow turns it around in the next 5 minutes, I'll take it back. But I feel pretty safe.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

... It's possible that the OMY syndrome is one symptom of the difficulty for moving from a scorecard/number/future focus to a live today paradigm. ...

Anything's possible, but I think along the lines of my buddy Okkam, there is a simple, rational explanation for OMY syndrome.

It's a rational fear of the unknown. We can't really know what our expenses may be (health, law suit, inflation, etc). We can't really know how our investments will do. So it's hard to not want to get one more year of security under the belt, and one less year of some of that uncertainty.

I don't think it has anything at all to do with "starving on eating menus".

-ERD50

 

[bmcgonig]

I like what he says. “Our only purpose is to be alive”

 

[yakers]

Allen Watts was a great writer and one of the formost introducers of Buddhist thought (practices/insights?) to the west. My take is that he would say life is nonrational (not irrational) and to understand or fully experience it deeply one has to get past the rational mind. Intuitive is the closest term we have. No issues with science in the physical realm but in the area of understanding 'who am I?' (probably the most basic philosophical question) science doesn't help much. He wrote a good introduction book: The Book: The Taboo About Knowing Who You Are https://www.amazon.com/Book-Taboo-Against-Knowing-Who/dp/0679723005
Mandetory reading in the 60s, still of some use these days like Ram Das's Be Here Now

 

[Romer]

So what got me thinking he is an idiot? When he says what's the point of having enough money to buy 5 cars, you can only drive one!

-ERD50

I have 3 cars and there is a point. I refurbished a 1973 Land Cruiser (hobby) like I drove in college. It is awesome to drive in the summer and always makes me think of Rat Patrol with Christopher George. Normally when I say that most people have no idea what I am talking about

I also have a 2014 Land Cruiser I built to go off road and to take my Australian camper for days off grid (Hobby)

I also have a BMW Z4 which gets 33 MPG, so it offsets the gas guzzling Land Cruisers

Oh and my wife has a RX450H

Cars are part of the hobby as I am always tinkering with the Toyotas to improve them or add some modification

I also understand someone else would agree with whats the point of more than 1 car. The likely have different hobbies.

The point is you can't make rules like that and apply them to others. Like I might say once you have strawberry Ice Crème there is no pint in other flavors That is why they make Chocolate, Vanilla, Strawberry and lots more flavors as everyone is different

 

[Blueskies123]

I recently listed to his book. It was interesting.

 

[Blueskies123]

This is one of the most profound short stories I have heard from Alan Watts. It only takes a few minutes to listen to but you will be thinking about the story for months.

 

[RobbieB]

Enough is enough has always been a topic here. When you have enough money, time is more important.

 

[ERD50]

This is one of the most profound short stories I have heard from Alan Watts. It only takes a few minutes to listen to but you will be thinking about the story for months. ...

Really? OK, I realize my earlier posts probably come across as just dismissive, but I'm honestly curious about this. And I'll invest a couple minutes to watch the video (not 7 hours of the previous one!) , and in fact, I did more than that, I replayed it 3 or 4 times.

Seriously, what's the deal? Why do you find this so profound?

First off, there is an inconsistency (see, I did watch it!) - @ ~ 0:48 he says you have a series of dreams that you have no control over. Then @ ~ 1:04 he says you take further gambles into what you would dream. Wait, I thought you had no control?

So please correct me if I got something wrong there, but if he can't maintain consistency in something over the course of less than 20 seconds, it's a stretch for me to think of this guy as some kind of 'great mind'.

Sorry, I just don't get anything profound in some mixed up hypothetical about dreams. And then @ 2:30, I felt like doing a Greta Thunberg impersonation "How Dare You!". Where does he get off telling me that I'm "pretending". He doesn't know me.

Sorry, but whenever I hear people elevating some "life coach" or the like, the words of a great Philosopher come to mind:

Look here brother
Who you jiving with that cosmik debris?
Now is that a real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?

With the added bonus of Ruth Underwood on xylophone, Jean-Luc Ponty (violin) - George Duke (keyb) - (in my world, that's profound!)

-ERD50

 

[RobbieB]

He said

"But I've got a chrystal ball", he said
And he held it to the light
So I snatched it all away from him
And I showed him how to do it right
I wrapped a newspaper 'round my head
So I'd look like I was deep
I said some Mumbo Jumbos
Then I told him he was goin' to sleep
I robbed his rings and pocket watch
And everything else I found
I had that sucker hypnotized
He couldn't even make a sound
I proceeded to tell him his future then
As long as he was hanging around
I said, "The price of meat has just gone up
And your old lady has just gone down"

Can't argue with the man!

 

[Romer]

This is one of the most profound short stories I have heard from Alan Watts. It only takes a few minutes to listen to but you will be thinking about the story for months.

I watched it and don't get it. If you like him and find inspiration thats great. Me I just don't see it. He seems like a guy who never had a real job to me. I see that he wrote books and was a public speaker so he obviously made money. I read some of the stuff he said via goggle as well to make sure I was understanding his philosophy. It isn't for me, but as I said I am glad you find inspiration in him. I find more inspiration for me in the words of Collin Powell or George Patton. "A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow"

 

[ERD50]

OK, I actually thought of something that might fit his "starving on eating menus" thing.

I've seen people pay big bucks to attend a concert of some high profile band, and they talk through it, seem to pay little/no attention to the band. I guess the "thing about the band" is bigger to them than the actual music produced by the band.

I think those people are ignorant, and I'm upset if they interfere with my enjoyment of the band. But being aware of this isn't a life changing, profound thing for me. I don't see the big deal, it's just a simple observation. Am I a guru for noticing (I have no Poncho, Sears or otherwise)?

-ERD50

 

[racy]

I watched it and don't get it. If you like him and find inspiration thats great. Me I just don't see it. He seems like a guy who never had a real job to me. I see that he wrote books and was a public speaker so he obviously made money. I read some of the stuff he said via goggle as well to make sure I was understanding his philosophy. It isn't for me, but as I said I am glad you find inspiration in him. I find more inspiration for me in the words of Collin Powell or George Patton. "A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow"

Same here. Reminded me of this site: https://tinyurl.com/yjgrjt4w The enigmatic wisdom of Deepak Chopra

Quoting from the site intro, "It has been said by some that the thoughts and tweets of Deepak Chopra are indistinguishable from a set of profound sounding words put together in a random order, particularly the tweets tagged with "#cosmisconciousness". This site aims to test that claim! Each "quote" is generated from a list of words that can be found in Deepak Chopra's Twitter stream randomly stuck together in a sentence."

 

[Chuckanut]

So what got me thinking he is an idiot? When he says what's the point of having enough money to buy 5 cars, you can only drive one!

Now that there is some shallow thinking! Obviously, most of us have built up a large stash for our future needs, and for the unforeseen. This guy can't think that far ahead?

Kid 1 - I wish I had enough money to buy and elephant.
Kid 2 - That's stupid. What would you do with an elephant?
Kid 1 - I don't want an elephant, I just want enough money to buy one.

Maybe Mr. Watts should have chewed more bubble gum as a kid.

 

[tmm99]

First off, there is an inconsistency (see, I did watch it!) - @ ~ 0:48 he says you have a series of dreams that you have no control over. Then @ ~ 1:04 he says you take further gambles into what you would dream. Wait, I thought you had no control?

I could be wrong, but I think he's just listing up different types of dreams that you may decide to have. You already woke up from the dream you were having at 0:48 (His "close shave" comment when he wakes up.) You're now having a different dream at 1:04. And if this guy is an expert in Buddhist/Taoist, etc, like some people say, he may be talking about detachment a little later (a kind of letting go without clinging to it, like the basketball you let go of. Buddhism says all sufferings are caused by attachment..) I don't know where God fits in, but maybe it has something with the fact that some people think God gave us free will to experiment and experience...

I think, from what he says, everyone gets something different, but it did make me think a little. Many traditional Buddhists think what we're experiencing here the way we do (reality, life, whatever you call it) is all illusion, so they see life as if it's a dream in a sense. When I was watching Matrix, (the first one), I thought it was talking about Buddhism...

I read a story by Lao Tzu (Taoist philosopher) when I was in high school. (I had to because it was part of the school curriculum in Japan at the time.) I was quite taken by it and it kind of stuck with me. I've looked and found it online (better than how I would explain it.)

Chuang Tzu was a philosopher in ancient China, who, one night went to sleep and dreamed that he was a butterfly. He dreamt that he was flying around from flower to flower and while he was dreaming he felt free, blown about by the breeze hither and thither. He was quite sure that he was a butterfly. But when he awoke he realised that he had just been dreaming, and that he was really Chuang Tzu dreaming he was a butterfly. But then Chuang Tzu asked himself the following question: "was I Chuang Tzu dreaming I was a butterfly or am I now really a butterfly dreaming that I am Chuang Tzu?"

I've never read Alan Watt's stuff myself (I might have tried, because I know his name and kind of knew what he was about, but maybe his stuff was too esoteric or too difficult for me to understand), but maybe he was good at provoking new/different thoughts in people's minds and many may have changed their perspectives about life.

Disclaimer. I met and hung with people who occasionally did magic mushrooms when I was younger, and they often started talking like this...I believe some get into those out-of-the-ordinary thinking modes doing LSD as well. I think Alan Watts did a lot of both. Maybe even those ancient philosophers did too. (Not LSD, but magic mushrooms.) I'm actually not dismissing those drug-induced out-of-the-box thoughts, I rather enjoy them.

 

[Andre1969]

So what got me thinking he is an idiot? When he says what's the point of having enough money to buy 5 cars, you can only drive one!

Hell, a common blue-collar mentality is that you have a truck for truck-type work, and a car for car-type duties. Just about anything that tries to combine the two into one vehicle ends up being a compromise, in some form or another.

Although, having two purpose-specific vehicles is a compromise in other ways. More maintenance, more expensive insurance, needing a place to park/store an extra vehicle, etc.

 

[ERD50]

I could be wrong, but I think he's just listing up different types of dreams that you may decide to have. You already woke up from the dream you were having at 0:48 (His "close shave" comment when he wakes up.) You're now having a different dream at 1:04. ...

Interesting view, but I think that's another thing that kinda bugs me about these spiritualists/philosophers (or whatever they wish to be called), is they get vague enough that it leaves open all sorts of explanations. I dunno, it seemed pretty clear to me that he was talking about the same uncontrolled dream thing.

.. And if this guy is an expert in Buddhist/Taoist, etc, like some people say, he may be talking about detachment a little later (a kind of letting go without clinging to it, like the basketball you let go of. Buddhism says all sufferings are caused by attachment..) ...

And I don't get the point of these analogies. So you let go of a basketball - how does that help me if I'm having issues with 'attachment'? When you are rock climbing, you cling to something. So what makes one thing insightful for a case, but not another? It seems so random, not deep at all. I just don't see how anyone is helped or draws any real inspiration from any of this.

...I read a story by Lao Tzu (Taoist philosopher) when I was in high school. (I had to because it was part of the school curriculum in Japan at the time.) I was quite taken by it and it kind of stuck with me. I've looked and found it online (better than how I would explain it.)...

The butterfly/human dream. OK, so maybe it can be entertaining to think about whether we are the butterfly dreaming about humans or vice versa, or a flea on a large living thing, but how is this going to help me in my life (other than just pure entertainment, which I guess has it's own value for humans).

I sometimes think about how the greatest minds cannot explain gravity, yet a toddler already has a pretty good grasp on how to deal with it in their daily life. I tend to think that understanding all this is either beyond us (like a dog understanding the solar system), or there just is no explanation. Either way, (outside of entertainment), I'm going to try to live my life, learning and reacting as best I can.

I like the line posted earlier:

... I find more inspiration for me in the words of Collin Powell or George Patton. "A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow"

Now that's something I can use. Some may find it inspiring, it reminds us that sometimes we have to cut through the clutter, and while it may help us to push the envelope to strive for perfection, and achieve things we thought almost impossible, there is a time to just get the job done, and move on. That takes some wisdom and experience, but some reflection on a line like that can help us focus.

IMO, one of those old saws is worth an infinite universe of eternal navel gazing. But to each their own, I guess.

... Disclaimer. I met and hung with people who occasionally did magic mushrooms when I was younger, and they often started talking like this...I believe some get into those out-of-the-ordinary thinking modes doing LSD as well. I think Alan Watts did a lot of both. Maybe even those ancient philosophers did too. (Not LSD, but magic mushrooms.) I'm actually not dismissing those drug-induced out-of-the-box thoughts, I rather enjoy them.

I've never done any of that stuff, for one I just found it scary to alter one's mind to that degree, with something of unknown origin.

And second, I'm on the fence of whether it actually opens your mind to new ideas, or is that just an illusion. If the stories of people thinking they could fly (or other super-human abilities) are true, well, they can't. So maybe these new ideas they experience are just false as well. OTOH, I suppose it is possible that it breaks down a connection to a part of our brain and that does open us up to something we wouldn't get any other way. I know some people attribute some success to these experiences, but I'm not sure I've ever heard of a direct correlation of anything significant. Other than some form of art, has anyone really achieved something like, inventing a pacemaker, or developing a polio vaccine, because they went psychedelic? I suspect it it the psychedelic itself that makes them think the ideas are great. But I'd be interested to hear of concrete examples.

-ERD50

 

[Koolau]

I assumed (on this forum) it was going to be a talk about fiat currency. Imagine my disappointment.

Then, I thought maybe he was adopting MY personal philosophy of "enough." But it didn't play out that way as it went on. Not even sure what he was trying to get across, but, I digress.

Some folks can string words and sentences together that seem profound upon first hearing but end up being drivel when you look for any practical application. I guess I took too many science courses (heh, heh, that I could barely understand) to ever commit to a Zen or Tao or new-age philosophical way of thinking.

I don't mean to put down anyone else's enjoyment of a philosophical point of view - I just don't see any value in it for myself. As always - and more than most topics, YMMV.

 

[target2019]

There are a number of Alan Watts lectures (mp3's) located at https://archive.org/details/alanwattscollection

 

[tmm99]

Personally, I would be too afraid to take anything that changes my perception either, but I sometimes wonder what some of those drugs are like (the ones some people say made them reach some kind of Nirvana.)

Having said that, when I was in college, my next-door dorm roommate was studying for a Psych exam while being high on pot. She said she was much more intuitive and insightful in her high state that she learned more.

She got a D on her exam. Well, good that she was high; if she wasn't, she would have gotten an F!

 

[tmm99]

I assumed (on this forum) it was going to be a talk about fiat currency. Imagine my disappointment.

Then, I thought maybe he was adopting MY personal philosophy of "enough." But it didn't play out that way as it went on. Not even sure what he was trying to get across, but, I digress.

Some folks can string words and sentences together that seem profound upon first hearing but end up being drivel when you look for any practical application. I guess I took too many science courses (heh, heh, that I could barely understand) to ever commit to a Zen or Tao or new-age philosophical way of thinking.

I don't mean to put down anyone else's enjoyment of a philosophical point of view - I just don't see any value in it for myself. As always - and more than most topics, YMMV.

Maybe what he's saying is similar to poems. I may have a hard time comprehending the meaning of many of them, but depending upon which state of mind I'm in, I may pick up something. Haiku poems are a good example. I often (every time?) go, "What? This is supposed to be a famous haiku that survived over hundreds of years??" One example:

“The Old Pond” by Matsuo Bashō

An old silent pond

A frog jumps into the pond—

Splash! Silence again.

You may think the poem lost its meaning when it was translated. I can assure you, it sounds just like that in Japanese as well!

Or abstract paintings. Looking at most of them, I just roll my eyes and go, "What"

Thoughts are subjective. I guess anything that provokes thoughts is fun.

I'm not defending or cutting down Alan Watts. I don't get what he's saying, but his thoughts are amusing and thought-provoking to me (more than reading Haiku or looking at abstract paintings.)