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Old 06-01-2017, 04:54 PM   #221
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I think this entire thread would have read very differently if the OP said "All I need is ~ $600k" instead of "All you need is ~ $600k" etc.

It seems that many of the responses are related to the arrogance of assuming that a complete stranger knows what each and every one of us needs. But then again, I speak only for myself.
I don't think that is arrogance just common usage of casual English. From Wikipedia: "In English grammar and in particular in casual English, generic you, impersonal you or indefinite you is the pronoun you in its use in referring to an unspecified person, as opposed to its use as the second person pronoun."
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Old 06-01-2017, 05:16 PM   #222
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All you need is love (beatles July 1967) or a pop record with endless royalties. But seriously folks. Life's been good to me so far.
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Old 06-01-2017, 05:18 PM   #223
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I've really enjoyed reading this thread with all the various options, opinions and lifestyles. For our plan we have a high-end, but achievable dream target, though admittedly it moves to lesser territory if work sucks any given day. Just after graduating, living on $3900 monthly would have seemed like we'd "made it". Now adding a house and child (and a bit of perspective of what can go wrong)it seems too small. How perspectives change over the years! I do know that once we reach a certain reasonable level (somewhere between the dream number and bottom line), we'll learn to make due with whatever the given monthly budget if the BS bucket overflows. We lived far below that budget once. Though our end-goal is more robust, I know we could do it again if necessary and live a very happy, though frugal life.
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:15 PM   #224
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By that logic someone will never have enough money to retire. And you left off the other 9463 things we need to prepare for. Work till you drop, i guess.

That's a non sequitur. I have more than enough to retire even now, without worrying about the items that I listed, most of which don't apply to me because I'm not in my 40s planning a decade-plus bridge to a SS-only retirement. A person who actually has that plan would be wise to consider those items in my judgment.

FI is not FIRE. And not everyone hates his or her work. Mine is fulfilling. But it's exhausting, and there are hassles, and my patience is worn after 45 years of all-out effort (starting at age 16) -- so I won't do it much longer. Not at the same pace, anyway.
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Old 06-01-2017, 08:09 PM   #225
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I'm not in my 40s planning a decade-plus bridge to a SS-only retirement.
Even with a pension, our 2 or 3 year bridge to the first SS check concerns me enough to plan to make it up with some part-time work.
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Old 06-01-2017, 08:22 PM   #226
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Me, too. How do you feel about that, and what will you do? I know I won't be compromising DW's comfort or security, or mine, when my ne'er-do-well relatives develop "needs" later in life that they could have financed themselves by working earlier, longer and harder but instead decided to roll the dice and stick someone else with the bill (like maybe me) when the dice only too predictably come up "snake eyes."
Emphasis mine....What do we do? Right now we are warding off casual requests to "help out" and I see things getting more complicated as time and other's needs grow. No one knows our actual net worth, and that was diligently saved after working well after "ER". We still practice LBYM as that is our culture.
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Old 06-01-2017, 08:41 PM   #227
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Dear ole Mom (76) lives on $1361/mo ( combined SS and CSRS survivor benefit pension )

This is net after health/dental premium ($270) and medicare premium

Home is paid off ( +55 community )

Federal Employee Health care working in tandem with Medicare

Energy Assistance pays most of Electricity....

Prop Tax limited due to Age/income....

Small 30K emergency fund

Older Buick will probably not be replaced when it dies.... will just use Free Senior Transportation that comes around a few times a week

Her Emergency Fund has seemed to be growing month to month

She does not seem to be dissatisfied with the amount of money available to live on

Eats out every other day at a modest restaurant and has Cable TV and Internet



I think it helps immensely to retire in an area that has a support network (transportation, local/close amenities) of course debt free and medical paid for.



Before my Father passed last year the two of them lived on a little more but also had higher (family) health premiums, and some Rx expenses tied to Dad. Certainly they lived off of less than $1700/mo net for the last 20 years from age 55-75


Somebody (i.e. taxpayers) pays for all of these "free" benefits.
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Old 06-01-2017, 08:43 PM   #228
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We don't want to just exist but like to go out, travel etc. Can't do that on such a small amount of $.


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Old 06-02-2017, 05:25 AM   #229
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Emphasis mine....What do we do? Right now we are warding off casual requests to "help out" and I see things getting more complicated as time and other's needs grow. No one knows our actual net worth, and that was diligently saved after working well after "ER". We still practice LBYM as that is our culture.


Thanks for explaining. Good advice. I especially like the part about obscuring net worth. Seems wise, lest the indolent crowd starts to think of your net worth as their net worth. And LBYM in retirement means obscuring your net worth.

I do the same thing, generally. After I retire I plan to use this reason for declining aid to the undeserving poor who approach me (in contrast to the deserving poor, whom DW and I support): "Sorry, but I'm living on a modest income, having retired after working hard for about 50 years. How long did you work full-time, doing what, exactly? I can't remember." I expect mostly mumbling and grumbling in reply.
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Old 06-02-2017, 05:42 AM   #230
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Even with a pension, our 2 or 3 year bridge to the first SS check concerns me enough to plan to make it up with some part-time work.


Yes, and you can probably do that pretty easily in metro DC, which has a higher percentage of workers in second careers than any other US city. It's one of the great advantages of living there. And it's wise of you to worry about bridging that gap. I will have no pension at all, so everything short of possible SS benefits for myself and my slightly younger DW is a bridge.

I've noticed that it's emotionally upsetting for one who is accustomed to working long and hard and LBYM to stop accumulating and start spending down a portfolio. I'm guilty of that. I'm FI but not FIRE. And it's not for the children that I do this. They are better off than we are and have been on their own for nearly a decade.

The ideal situation for DW and me would be meaningful part-time work for me (with her at home at last) for income that pays our expenses, including taxes, but no more. And in our case that means it need only pay about 15 percent of what we currently earn. Sounds easy, right? It's not. I am looking for such a position now, but might need to retire to actually have enough time to find the right one.
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Old 06-02-2017, 05:50 AM   #231
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.....Seems wise, lest the indolent crowd starts to think of your net worth as their net worth. ....
I do some volunteer work at the local food pantry and was talking with the Executive Director was to why our clients don't save and she explained that the cultural expectation in that economic strata is that your peers will help you out so the peers decide not to save.... if they don't have any savings then they can't help out their peers looking for a handout... a bit of a vicious circle.
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Old 06-02-2017, 06:22 AM   #232
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I do some volunteer work at the local food pantry and was talking with the Executive Director was to why our clients don't save and she explained that the cultural expectation in that economic strata is that your peers will help you out so the peers decide not to save.... if they don't have any savings then they can't help out their peers looking for a handout... a bit of a vicious circle.
Oh I don't think so Pb4uski, I really don't. I work with some of what Philly calls deep poverty, these folks have income 1/2 of the poverty line. so for a family of four they are living on about 12K a year. Philadelphia unfortunately has one of the largest deep poverty rates in the nation. anyway not one them expect their peers to help out. their reality is extremely closed or narrow. All their peers are also in poverty so there is no expectation for help from that quarter. most are in fractured families so the idea that they think their children will help is foreign.

To quote Philadbunance (one of the largest organizations to help out). the link is a school study I helped with back in 2013
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20...p_poverty.html

Philadelphians in deep poverty live without running water or electricity or heat for long periods of time, according to Mariana Chilton, a nationally recognized expert on poverty at Drexel University’s School of Public Health.
“It forces them to live in toxic stress,” Chilton said. “There’s no break, no ability to bounce back. They’re dealing with social dysfunction, violence in the family, potential drug addiction, poor education.”


they generally have very little hope and definitely are not thinking a family member is going to help them out. Most of them are not thinking about retirement, not because they are living la vida loca but because getting to the end of the month with food is the primary focus.

lol, that is a luxury for the middle class, the conversations we have here are the equivalent of speaking Greek to them.

LOL. I apologize, I did my graduate work in the cycle of poverty in the African american communities. I have bored many a dinner conversation with the topic and my siblings have banned me from bringing up the topic at family gatherings.
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Old 06-02-2017, 07:05 AM   #233
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Whatever "number" you think you need to retire, I would recommend you build a cushion in. Say 20-25%. Stuff happens and if it doesn't the cushion will give more flexibility to your lifestyle in retirement. Worked out that way for us. Retired over 10 years ago and very glad we ended up with more than I thought.
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Old 06-02-2017, 08:43 AM   #234
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masceratain - I think you have the right mindset to ER. We also live in the Bay Area and had had tech jobs. Some of our former co-workers spent money like there was no tomorrow, despite having high household incomes, and then when one or both got laid off or their businesses had a downturn they were in deep financial trouble.

It is not necessarily an ER book, but we always lived below our means like the people profiled in the The Millionaire Next Door, and when DH really needed to retire from full-time work the money was there. We had had some jobs with pensions which helped, too. I had tech work 1099 income for a couple of years after that, but I've kind of tapered off now that our kids are grown and mostly self supporting and we know our retirement budget seems to be working out as is.

For a baseline numbers of what are reasonable amounts to retire or semi-retire on, we looked at the Consumer Expenditure Survey and then added some buffer, money for our kids, charity and LTC and frills on top of those numbers and it has worked out well for us so far.
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Old 06-02-2017, 12:35 PM   #235
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Leaving aside all the "extras" they are missing, what do these retirees do when hit by the need for long-term care (because they can no longer take care of themselves) or by catastrophic, uninsured medical costs? Do they simply capitulate and die? Do they burden their adult children (if they have any who will sacrifice their own security for parents)? Or do these things only happen to richer retirees?

These are not snarky questions (well, maybe the last one was), but sincere ones. I can live humbly within a rational health care cost framework, but feel I might need a million or more to pay for these costs for myself and/or DW. I'd like to understand better how end-of-life dignity and care are preserved with such limited means, in case I'm being too cautious.
You know, I also get such paralyzing thoughts when I read negative and/or sad stuff online or hear on news, but if you predominantly think just about that, who knows it might happen to you and you better be ready... I try to fight such bad/negative thoughts because I feel it should be unhealthy for my mental and physical health. It helps when I read positive stuff
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Old 06-02-2017, 01:22 PM   #236
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I don't think that is arrogance just common usage of casual English. From Wikipedia: "In English grammar and in particular in casual English, generic you, impersonal you or indefinite you is the pronoun you in its use in referring to an unspecified person, as opposed to its use as the second person pronoun."
But it's not an unspecified person, the situation is specific to the OP. "All one needs is ..." does not sound any better.
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Old 06-02-2017, 02:16 PM   #237
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But it's not an unspecified person, the situation is specific to the OP. "All one needs is ..." does not sound any better.
"All you need" is a pretty common turn of phrase, as in the previously mentioned "all you need is love" or

All you need in life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. ~ Mark Twain

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all you need is ~600K by age 50 to retire
Old 10-15-2017, 12:39 PM   #238
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all you need is ~600K by age 50 to retire

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Oh I don't think so Pb4uski, I really don't. I work with some of what Philly calls deep poverty, these folks have income 1/2 of the poverty line. so for a family of four they are living on about 12K a year. Philadelphia unfortunately has one of the largest deep poverty rates in the nation. anyway not one them expect their peers to help out. their reality is extremely closed or narrow. All their peers are also in poverty so there is no expectation for help from that quarter. most are in fractured families so the idea that they think their children will help is foreign.

To quote Philadbunance (one of the largest organizations to help out). the link is a school study I helped with back in 2013
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20...p_poverty.html

Philadelphians in deep poverty live without running water or electricity or heat for long periods of time, according to Mariana Chilton, a nationally recognized expert on poverty at Drexel University’s School of Public Health.
“It forces them to live in toxic stress,” Chilton said. “There’s no break, no ability to bounce back. They’re dealing with social dysfunction, violence in the family, potential drug addiction, poor education.”


they generally have very little hope and definitely are not thinking a family member is going to help them out. Most of them are not thinking about retirement, not because they are living la vida loca but because getting to the end of the month with food is the primary focus.

lol, that is a luxury for the middle class, the conversations we have here are the equivalent of speaking Greek to them.

LOL. I apologize, I did my graduate work in the cycle of poverty in the African american communities. I have bored many a dinner conversation with the topic and my siblings have banned me from bringing up the topic at family gatherings.


I too have seen poverty as a Landlord to literally hundreds of people at the lower economic level but something I noticed is that it's often more a mental poverty for lack of a better word because often they have section 8 housing, Medicaid, disability payments, government stipend and food stamps. Many times when they leave the house or get evicted, they leave behind mounds of clothing, toys and furniture. It appears to me that the idea of managing the little money you have and being resourceful are missing. I also have tenants who are immigrants and they are often poorer but they rely on each other, judiciously manage their income and in some cases grow their own food and raise chickens and do not have an entitlement mentality. Most of the houses we rent have some yard where you can easily do a vegetable garden. I am not saying your observation is wrong just that it's more complex and isn't always a lack of resources but how it's managed. For example, poor people can cook from scratch and feed their entire family for very little but some may lack the skills or will to do. I have seen some of them buy TV dinners, serve their kids cake for breakfast and other prepared food. I contend it's more the lack of the skill to be frugal and survive well on the basics than a lack of income or resources.
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Old 10-15-2017, 04:19 PM   #239
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Could work in the Midwest. We live on about half that.
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Old 10-15-2017, 04:22 PM   #240
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All you need is love (beatles July 1967) or a pop record with endless royalties. But seriously folks. Life's been good to me so far.
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