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Alteratives to Wellington?
Old 12-16-2016, 09:03 AM   #1
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Alteratives to Wellington?

I'm probably the only won who didnt know this but I guess Vanguard Wellington is closed to new investors. Anyone have any good alternatives that are similar?
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:06 AM   #2
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Wellington is closed for institutional investors on third party platforms. It's still open for individuals investing from their Vanguard accounts.
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:20 AM   #3
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I cant invest at E-Trade and Im not an institutional investor. I guess I can invest directly at Vanguard though?
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:40 AM   #4
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That was my experience Utrecht. I bought it directly from Vanguard when I couldn't from Fidelity

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Old 12-16-2016, 10:05 AM   #5
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You could always go to one of these highly correlated ETFs....

Once of which is VOO, which is just the S&P. It is a 99.8% correlated ETF. From what I can see, there is no magic that Wellington has.


100.0%VWENXVanguard Mutual FundsWellington Admiral Shares
99.9%SCHVSchwabLarge-Cap Value
99.9%VGSTXVanguard Mutual FundsSTAR
99.8%VOOVanguardS&P 500
99.8%SCHXSchwabLarge-Cap Core
99.8%SCHBSchwabMulti-Cap Core
99.7%IWLiSharesRussell Top 200 ETF
99.7%EUSAiSharesMSCI USA ETF
99.7%AORiSharesGrowth Allocation ETF
99.7%VBIAXVanguard Mutual FundsBalanced Index Admiral Shares
99.6%VTXVXVanguard Mutual FundsTarget Retirement 2015
99.6%SCHDSchwabEquity Income
99.6%IWXiSharesRussell Top 200 Value ETF
99.6%VWINXVanguard Mutual FundsWellesley Income
99.6%VMVAXVanguard Mutual FundsMid-Cap Value Index Admiral
99.5%AOAiSharesAggressive Allocation ETF
99.5%VIGVanguardDividend Appreciation
99.4%VTMFXVanguard Mutual FundsTax-Managed Balanced Admiral Shares
99.4%MGKVanguardMega Cap Growth
99.4%AOMiSharesModerate Allocation ETF
99.4%FSCKXFidelitySpartan Mid-Cap Index Fund - Fidelity Advantage Class
99.4%MDYSPDRS&P MIDCAP 400
99.4%VTWNXVanguard Mutual FundsTarget Retirement 2020
99.4%FSCLXFidelitySpartan Mid-Cap Index Fund - Investor Class
99.3%MMTMSPDRS&P 1500 Momentum Tilt
99.3%MDYGSPDRS&P 400 Mid Cap Growth
99.3%VCVSXVanguard Mutual FundsConvertible Securities
99.3%MGCVanguardMega Cap
99.3%KXIiSharesGlobal Consumer Staples ETF
99.3%PWVPowerSharesDynamic Large Cap Value Portfolio



https://similarstocks.com/vanguard-mutual-funds/vwelx
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Old 12-16-2016, 10:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator View Post
You could always go to one of these highly correlated ETFs....

Once of which is VOO, which is just the S&P. It is a 99.8% correlated ETF. From what I can see, there is no magic that Wellington has.
Senator,
Any idea what time period that correlation covers? When I went to the link, I couldn't tell, but it looks like it may be for the last 30 days, which isn't much of a history.

Wellington and the Vanguard S&P 500 can be expected to vary a lot in their performance when stocks take a hit. For example, from June 2008 through Mar 2009, the S&P fund took a 46% loss, while Wellington had a 31% loss. Even if the performance of the funds were closely corellated most of the time, the difference in their performance during periods such as this would be important to many investors.

If we go for a longer window (1/1/2000 through today), a $10K starting amount in each fund would have about $21,300 in the S&P fund today and $26,400 in Wellington. So, it does not appear that the funds are pretty much the same, though on many days their performance may be similar. I don't think Wellington has any magic, but I'm not surprised that a fund with 1) stocks that are weighted toward value and 2) holdings that are about 30% bonds, 70% equities will perform differently than a fund holding only the 500 largest US publicly-traded companies.
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Old 12-16-2016, 11:07 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
Wellington and the Vanguard S&P 500 can be expected to vary a lot in their performance when stocks take a hit. For example, from June 2008 through Mar 2009, the S&P fund took a 46% loss, while Wellington had a 31% loss. Even if the performance of the funds were closely corellated most of the time, the difference in their performance during periods such as this would be important to many investors.
+1

Correlation says nothing about risk or performance, only directional moves.
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Old 12-16-2016, 12:01 PM   #8
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Wellington Management is the reason we own both Wellington and Wellesley balanced funds.
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Old 12-16-2016, 12:06 PM   #9
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Wellington is the biggest reason I put up with Vanguard's quirks and marginal customer service.
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Old 12-16-2016, 12:24 PM   #10
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Wellington is the biggest reason I put up with Vanguard's quirks and marginal customer service.
Same here.
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Old 12-16-2016, 12:43 PM   #11
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I would open an account at Vanguard to get VWELX, if you can't get it elsewhere.

I'm looking at RLBGX in my 401K account, as a possibility for 2017 contributions.

RLBGX American Funds American Balanced FundŽ Class R-6 Fund RLBGX chart

M* assigns it to category 50-70% Equity.

I expect over time it will lag VWELX Wellington.
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Old 12-16-2016, 01:46 PM   #12
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Kind of like Wellington The Oakmark Funds | Equity & Income
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Old 12-16-2016, 02:23 PM   #13
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Here is a great thread that discusses Wellington too.

http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...-er-82548.html
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Old 12-16-2016, 04:54 PM   #14
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Since 1985, a 66% VTI and 34% BND portfolio has been a pretty much dead ringer for the performance of Wellesley according to the backtest link posted in the thread that Senator brought up.
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Old 12-16-2016, 05:14 PM   #15
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Since 1985, a 66% VTI and 34% BND portfolio has been a pretty much dead ringer for the performance of Wellesley according to the backtest link posted in the thread that Senator brought up.
Is that just end-to-end, or also during stock calamities (Oct 1987, 2008) and bond market woes (1969, 1994)?
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Old 12-16-2016, 05:42 PM   #16
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Is that just end-to-end, or also during stock calamities (Oct 1987, 2008) and bond market woes (1969, 1994)?
The whole time. Portfolio 2 is Wellington, 1 is VTI/BND mix.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/...ocation3_2=100

#Initial BalanceFinal BalanceCAGRStd.Dev.Best YearWorst YearMax. DrawdownSharpe RatioSortino RatioUS Mkt Correlation
1$10,000$17,827 6.70% 10.82%21.36%-22.07%-31.89% 0.640.930.99
2$10,000$17,603 6.55% 10.69%22.20%-22.30%-31.26% 0.630.920.97
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Old 12-16-2016, 05:52 PM   #17
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The whole time. Portfolio 2 is Wellington, 1 is VTI/BND mix.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/...ocation3_2=100

# Initial Balance Final Balance CAGR Std.Dev. Best Year Worst Year Max. Drawdown Sharpe Ratio Sortino Ratio US Mkt Correlation
1 $10,000 $17,827 6.70% 10.82% 21.36% -22.07% -31.89% 0.64 0.93 0.99
2 $10,000 $17,603 6.55% 10.69% 22.20% -22.30% -31.26% 0.63 0.92 0.97
According to a note on that page:
Quote:
Note: The time period was automatically adjusted based on the available data (May 2007 - Nov 2016) for the selected asset: Vanguard Total Bond Market ETF (BND)
So, we're only looking at that most recent 9 year period, not back to 1985. This misses some fairly important market perturbations (and opportunities for Wellington's active managers to shine--if they truly add value). I think we'd need a bond fund with a longer history in their database than BND has to see that.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:37 PM   #18
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According to a note on that page:
So, we're only looking at that most recent 9 year period, not back to 1985. This misses some fairly important market perturbations (and opportunities for Wellington's active managers to shine--if they truly add value). I think we'd need a bond fund with a longer history in their database than BND has to see that.
BND is a eft use VBMFX. Which is the mutual fund version started Dec. 1986.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:42 PM   #19
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BND is a eft use VBMFX. Which is the mutual fund version started Dec. 1986.
VTI also is a EFT only goes back to 2001 use the mutual fund version VTSMX.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:58 PM   #20
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Here's a look back to 1987 comparing:
-- "Portfolio 1" : 66% VFINX (Vgd S&P 500)/34% VBMFX (Vgd Total Bond Index) (rebalanced annually)
-- "Portfolio 2" : 100% Wellington

Quote:
#
......Initial Balance..Final BalanceCAGR..Std.Dev...Best Year..Worst Year..Max. Drawdown...Sharpe Ratio...Sortino Ratio...US Mkt Correlation
Port 1..$10,000.......$131,412....8.99% 10.18%. 30.90%...... -22.71%.... -34.01%........... 0.59............. 0.86.............. 0.98
Port 2..$10,000.......$158,593....9.68% 10.01%. 32.92%...... -22.30%.... -32.53%........... 0.66............. 0.99.............. 0.90
Fairly similar performance, and with the Admiral class shares available today, it's possible that the homebrew index portfolio would have a higher ending balance than the Wellington portfolio. But, that still just takes us back 30 years, which might still miss some dramatic opportunities for Wellington to set itself apart.

Note: The higher Sortino ratio of the Wellington portfolio indicates it had better performance when adjusted for downside volatility compared to Portfolio 1.
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