"America's Money"

[Notmuchlonger]

Carefully read the profiles. It seems that many of these people are guilty of nothing more than being laid off, getting sick, having a child get sick, losing health insurance, etc. etc.

I can distill the relevant advice:

1)Be perfect
2)Be even more perfect
3)Be extremely lucky.

Ha

Agree with you about luck HAHA. Many forget that one accident through no fault of your own could crush any plans you make. I feel blessed for every day of such avoidances.

 

[packrat44]

But the most costly mistake I made was marrying someone with about zero financial sense. Money burned a hole in her pocket like a five-year-old's. The tuition bill for that error was very high, but I was relatively lucky - no kids and there was time to financially recover.


That said, it is hard to make a case for an ivy league school when the state school is a quarter of the tuition, or go to a community college first and then transfer. Military service is another option, that's been the ticket out of poverty for millions of people.

One of the best financial moves in your life is to choose a spouse who is educated; in a good career field; and is a LBYM type person.

My son chose military service via the ROTC at a state school. Along with some other scholarships, his under graduate degree in Mechanical Engineering was completely paid for. After several years of active duty the military paid all his schooling and full wages for 20 months for him to acquire a Masters in Aeronautical Engineering. At 29 years he is without any debt and his liquid portfolio is greater than $200K.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Remember, INTJ doesn't have to mean that one is always right and always perfect, and everyone else sucks.

Ha

That is really really funny Ha! I sure hope that it doesn't get out, or my rep is ruined--and if I'm also left-handed does that make me "more right"?
How very predictable we are!
Thanks!

 

[brewer12345]

One of the best financial moves in your life is to choose a spouse who is educated; in a good career field; and is a LBYM type person.

Better yet, make sure you are born into a fabulously wealthy family.

 

[packrat44]

Better yet, make sure you are born into a fabulously wealthy family.

Maybe. But could imagine how screwed up your life would be (other than financial) if you were married to Paris Hilton, etc.

 

[unclemick]

That is really really funny Ha! I sure hope that it doesn't get out, or my rep is ruined--and if I'm also left-handed does that make me "more right"?
How very predictable we are!
Thanks!

It does make it hard to be humble - doesn't it?

heh heh heh - yours truly in quasi humble left-handed INTJ ness!

Now what was the subject?

 

[Milton]

Better yet, make sure you are born into a fabulously wealthy family.

I remember seeing a spoof television advertisement back in the early 80's (probably on Not The Nine O'Clock News), touting the benefits of a very lavish and exciting lifestyle involving exotic travel, disco dancing, parachuting, scuba diving, skiing, etc. At the end, the voiceover said "Join the Royal Family", and there was the address for Buck House or something similar.

Well, I guess young and attractive women could marry into the Royal Family; but the gates are forever closed to the rest of us.

 

[tuixiu]

Having no children I don't get the private schools thing. I have coworkers who pay outrageous amounts to send their children to private schools. Are they really that much better? I went to public only so I don't really know.

This relates to the woman in the article who appears to be losing her marriage and car because of finances but points out she keeps her kids in private schools since it shouldn't be only for the rich.

 

[W2R]

Having no children I don't get the private schools thing. I have coworkers who pay outrageous amounts to send their children to private schools. Are they really that much better? I went to public only so I don't really know.

This relates to the woman in the article who appears to be losing her marriage and car because of finances but points out she keeps her kids in private schools since it shouldn't be only for the rich.

It depends on where you live. I paid a huge amount to send my daughter to a private school in one location, and I would never have let her go to public schools for one day there. Too many gangs and too much violence, as well as virtually no education at those public schools.

Then we moved to College Station, Texas which has excellent public schools. She got a great education in those public schools.

 

[FUEGO]

This relates to the woman in the article who appears to be losing her marriage and car because of finances but points out she keeps her kids in private schools since it shouldn't be only for the rich.

There's are appropriate circumstances where private schools would be a big benefit. But to strain one's finances to the point of breaking and as a result breaking her marriage and losing her car?? The end result seems to be a divorce, both parents being poorer, maybe bankruptcy, and neither parent being able to afford to send their kids to private schools. Seems a stable family life with happy parents would be of more benefit to the kids than a school that might only be marginally better.

 

[armor99]

Carefully read the profiles. It seems that many of these people are guilty of nothing more than being laid off, getting sick, having a child get sick, losing health insurance, etc. etc.
Ha

Sorry... I had to draw the red flag on this one. I concur 100% with you insofar as unexpected negative things can, and will happen to you over the course of your life. These things are no fault of your own, and you certainly are not guilty of causing them to happen to yourself. However..... you most certainly ARE guilty of something. And that something is the "oh.... but that will never happen to ME" mentality. I fully understand that I can in fact get sick, be laid off, loose my health insurance, if I had a child they might get sick, etc. But since I do understand all of these eventualities, I have taken steps to safeguard against them. While I will agree with you that there ARE people out there that have done all of the right things, and got wiped out due to an unforseen circumstance, I would be willing to wager this percentage is very small. Much more common is the story of people who choose not to buy health insurance until AFTER they are sick, spend every nickle they make not expecting to be laid off, spend money on luxury items BEFORE they pay their credit card bills etc. By and large people create their own luck, and are not random victims of it. From what I have seen so far, is unlucky people that were harmed more due to lack of planning, than some random event that came their way. Some may agree... some may not... but this is how I see it...

 

[rs0460a]

But since I do understand all of these eventualities, I have taken steps to safeguard against them. ...

Sort of like the old saying:

"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
- Thomas Jefferson


In this case, one should try to "prepare for the worst (but hope for the best)"...

- Ron

 

[unclemick]

Sort of like the old saying:

In this case, one should try to "prepare for the worst (but hope for the best)"...

- Ron

Hmmm - I believed the 'slosh model' which indicated the Levee could break at mid to high Cat III.

heh heh heh - and then it did. Also in thirty years in New Orleans never let a chance to party slip by as the clock is aways ticking. Max auto deduct tax deferred and make do with the rest. My investment strategy was so boring I often forgot I had one.

 

[Patrick]

More Money Laments

Hey, Fed: Stop robbing my savings, readers say - MarketWatch

 

[Rambler]

Sorry... I had to draw the red flag on this one. I concur 100% with you insofar as unexpected negative things can, and will happen to you over the course of your life. These things are no fault of your own, and you certainly are not guilty of causing them to happen to yourself. However..... you most certainly ARE guilty of something. And that something is the "oh.... but that will never happen to ME" mentality. I fully understand that I can in fact get sick, be laid off, loose my health insurance, if I had a child they might get sick, etc. But since I do understand all of these eventualities, I have taken steps to safeguard against them. While I will agree with you that there ARE people out there that have done all of the right things, and got wiped out due to an unforseen circumstance, I would be willing to wager this percentage is very small. Much more common is the story of people who choose not to buy health insurance until AFTER they are sick, spend every nickle they make not expecting to be laid off, spend money on luxury items BEFORE they pay their credit card bills etc. By and large people create their own luck, and are not random victims of it. From what I have seen so far, is unlucky people that were harmed more due to lack of planning, than some random event that came their way. Some may agree... some may not... but this is how I see it...

Touche

I had a mentor (former boss) who hired me when I was 23, when he was president and starting the subsidiary of the megacorp that I still work for, 23 years later. I was the third person hired in the subsidiary. When he retired and I returned to take his place after 17 years, overseas transfers, a variety of jobs/positions/responsibilitie, etc., I thanked him for hiring me 17 years prior. I told him how lucky I felt to be given the opportunities that I had all along the way, and especially at that time.

He replied to me that I had made my own luck, the entire way through, and that he felt I would continue to do so. I was of course a hard worker and I still am, but I had never looked at it that way before...creating my own luck. Six years have passed since then and I recall this often as I look at people...those who work for me, friends, acquaintances, and even brothers and sisters.

I find that what this wise man told me is very true. I have a sister and BIL who have very much created their own luck and while not well to do, they are comfortable. I have a brother and another sister who have essentially created their own desperation and demise. The latter two always comment that it isn't fair that I have what I have. I will never be close to these two, because they feel that it is fair that I work hard and take measured advantage of opportunities but not fair to enjoy the fruits of my labor, while they feel the world owes them something. My sister even declared bankruptcy last year and boasted to my folks that she didn't have to pay any more for her 50" flat screen TV, a variety of other toys, or her travel trailer. That made me so furious I about burst an artery. BTW, I earn many times what she does, but don't have anywhere near the toys...thats part of what makes it so infuriating.

Need I say more? There are people who are willing to take responsibility for creating their own luck, good fortune, AND ability to weather hard times, and then there are those who are not willing (or are just plain stupid - my sis included).

 

[citrine]

I tried to read with an open mind....but wanted to smack some of the people!
I agree with a lot of you.....I don't understand why someone would pay 800 dollars in gas....get a smaller car! I would not buy a new house when my old one wasn't sold yet! I really don't understand the ones who cashed out their 401K as an emergency fund!
I don't know how they sleep at night......I cannot handle high levels of debt.....gives me heartburn!

 

[UncleHoney]

I have a brother and another sister who have essentially created their own desperation and demise. The latter two always comment that it isn't fair that I have what I have. I will never be close to these two, because they feel that it is fair that I work hard and take measured advantage of opportunities but not fair to enjoy the fruits of my labor, while they feel the world owes them something. My sister even declared bankruptcy last year and boasted to my folks that she didn't have to pay any more for her 50" flat screen TV, a variety of other toys, or her travel trailer. That made me so furious I about burst an artery. BTW, I earn many times what she does, but don't have anywhere near the toys...thats part of what makes it so infuriating.

Need I say more? There are people who are willing to take responsibility for creating their own luck, good fortune, AND ability to weather hard times, and then there are those who are not willing (or are just plain stupid - my sis included).

Rambler, our sisters must be related. I've got one that is always in hot water over money. She and bil have done the bankruptcy thing twice in the last thirty years. For some reason they never have money to pay the bills but they sure have a lust for toys, trips and cars.

She always seems to make some snide remark about the fact that my DW hasn't worked since 1985 and sat around all day doing nothing while I worked. Just a little jealousy there if you ask me.

Their FIRE date (she is 56, bil is 62) is somewhere near the end of this century.

 

[haha]

I am heartened that we have again achieved the proper condemnatory tone.

Ha

 

[clifp]

I am heartened that we have again achieved the proper condemnatory tone.

Ha

Well what tone should we be adopting? Should we be opening up our checkbooks and making contributions so they can buy a new car, pay of the mortgage, or pay down their student loans. "Be thankful because there by the grace of god go I." I am honestly confused

Ok maybe we are too quick to condem, and clearly we don't have anywhere near all the facts. I guess the article is supposed to be yet another example about how the country's economy is going to hell in a handbasked. I don't accept the premise ordinary people are suffering solely from the evil lenders, oil company, Congress, Bush, Chinese...I agree with others, 80% of these stories could be written anytime within the last 50 years. Life is unfair, some of us ,certainly include myself, got more than are fair share of good breaks, leaving the bad breaks to the rest. Still people do make their own luck.

 

[rs0460a]

I don't understand why someone would pay 800 dollars in gas....get a smaller car!/quote]

Didn't go through all the stories, so I don't know the detail on this one, however I'll give my comment (anyway ).

Spending a lot on gas sometimes is "required". Maybe the vehicle used is the "problem", but what if it's a "condition of employment" (e.g. working in construction) where you have to drive a great distance to a current construction site, and also provide your own "tools of the trade". I would think (for instance, an arc welder) could not get their "tools" in back of a Honda ....

Another reason for cost of gas, and was referred to by another person. You may have a distance to commute, not served by public transport, that you must drive to keep your job. Where I live, there are a lot of "transplants" from the northern NJ / NYC area due to the lower housing prices. You could sell your "shack" in those areas and get a McMansion here, simply by driving 50-75 miles (one-way). When gas was less than $3/gal and especially if you drove a small vehicle (that was good on gas) it made sense. Even more so, when you car-pooled and shared the cost of commuting. With job cutbacks some of those "NYC jobs" have gone away, and a few folks I know have to drive themselves (and also pay increased tolls to drive in the city).

Sometimes good intentions don't necessarily match reality. Of course, for those that really are acting "stupid" (such as renting a car for $200/wk, rather than by lease for $200/mo) you can't open their eyes to what they are doing.

- Ron

 

[brewer12345]

I am heartened that we have again achieved the proper condemnatory tone.

Ha

Careful, Ha, I hear the sound of pitch being heated up.

 

[haha]

Well what tone should we be adopting? Should we be opening up our checkbooks and making contributions so they can buy a new car, pay of the mortgage, or pay down their student loans. "Be thankful because there by the grace of god go I." I am honestly confused

I don't understand your reasoning. To me at least, one can avoid condemning an action or situation meanwhile not pitching in to do anything about it. One's feelings can be generous, even if actions may be complicated or have negative side effects or cost too much or are in other ways not appealing.

I am conservative politically. Yet I tend to have compassionate opinions and feelings about others' struggles, even if in some cases they come from their own failings. It is too painfully obvious to me that many of my struggles come from my personal failings. Do I want others to condemn me?

Remember faith, hope, and charity?

I think the emotional process of looking down on others can be gratifying. Better to pass on this source of pleasure.

Ha

 

[brewer12345]

I think the emotional process of looking down on others is gratifying to some here. It is its own reward so to speak.

Ha

Heh, lots of card carrying members of the schadenfreude club here, for sure.

 

[kombat]

I think the emotional process of looking down on others is gratifying to some here. It is its own reward so to speak.

At the risk of getting a little too "touchy-feely," I might offer a different explanation.

Is it possible that people so readily condemn those who have suffered bad luck out of a possible insecurity about their own good fortune?

That is, I think many of the people on this forum might encounter (or indeed, sometimes feel it themselves) a little guilt about being wealthy. In order to alleviate this guilt, they have to convince themselves that they deserve what they have. Consequently, they have to believe that those who are poor deserve that, too.

Basically, believing that "people deserve what they get" allows them to not feel guilty about being wealthy themselves, but it has a nasty side-effect of blocking any personal empathy they might have otherwise felt towards people suffering a low-income existence (lest they be perceived as hypocritical).

Just a theory. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[Moemg]

My theory is it's easy to talk about other people 's back luck and how you can be prepared for anything until something truly devastating happens to you . There is no way on earth you can be prepared for all of lifes twists and turns .