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Old 11-24-2020, 04:49 PM   #201
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Hmmm, I find pondering a useful endeavor. And since we are living a life, and arenít living a money, then maybe the former is worth examining.
Pondering life is what it's all about. If not what are we doing here? How else do you find your purpose?
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Old 11-24-2020, 05:12 PM   #202
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I think you are going to have to define what an Ultra High Net Worth Individual is before anyone could respond to this. People have widely different perceptions of what makes someone wealthy.
I thought he did, when he said 'investable income of at least 30million'.
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Old 11-24-2020, 05:49 PM   #203
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Nope, not UHNW. And really no incentive to become one. I have more than enough to last for the rest of my life with possibly 7 figures to pass to heirs.
I know one UHNW couple. They live in the same bi-level, 3 br/1ba house that they bought 60 years ago. Yes, they own their own plane and he flies it and they used to take the family all over the world for ski, etc trips. But other than that, pretty low key.
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Old 11-24-2020, 05:53 PM   #204
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Human have a tendency to feel unsecured regardless of how much money do they have. They have an insatiable desire to acquire more, one a goal is meet another is set to acquire even more. They are constantly fighting within themselves that they must have more or at least as much as those to which they are comparing. They ae constantly raising the bar. To those people, good luck.
Years ago, I read a study about happiness. One thing that jumped out to me: Happiest people were the one who lived somewhere they are the wealthiest among their neighbors. I guess ignorance is bliss after all!
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Old 11-24-2020, 06:27 PM   #205
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During my career I had the opportunity to interact with a few Ultra High Net Worth individuals who were multigenerational billionaires. They were not outwardly flashy. Iím sure they had nice homes, cars, vacations, etc. Yet they definitely lived below their means.

One of them told me they liked to collect things. Often collections were started by their parents or grandparents. One owned several airport hangers where they kept their aircraft collections of WW2 bombers and fighter planes. They actually employed a few full time mechanics and had pilots on standby in case they wanted to go for a ride. Another had a large antique car collection started by their grandfather that went back to the earliest days of automobiles.

Other than that they were fixated on ensuring their business investments grew with each generation by reinvesting much of the profit. They were going strong at 6 generations.... some of their distant cousins were less successful in keeping the wealth.
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Old 11-24-2020, 06:44 PM   #206
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Old 11-24-2020, 06:46 PM   #207
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Sometimes for fun I take our jet to our winery in southern France to check on things but mostly I stay on our island.
I actually know a family that is very much like this. He was my boss for a couple years, as he owned 30% of the company and as chairman, he had fired our CEO, and took on the job himself. He was worth billions, but never stopped working. Yes, he’d fly to France on his Global Express jet to check on his winery, and to Argentina and Brazil to check on his cattle ranches, and the UK to check on his horses. He actually had several jets, and would have his pilots fly him in the most appropriate one for the mission. I flew with him from Zurich to Stanstead once in a smaller Cessna jet. Before he passed, he gave each of his children enough seed money to go off and build their own thing, whatever that was. For us here, it would be more money than we’d ever need, but they were used to luxurious living. The rest, in billions, he donated to a foundation that builds schools, hospitals and clinics, and creates opportunities in parts of the world that are in dire need of them. Sometimes he acted like a pompous @$$, but all that time he was building an empire to serve others. I asked him one time if he ever took a vacation. His reply was that life should always be a mixture of work and pleasure. And that is just how he lived his life.
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Old 11-24-2020, 06:59 PM   #208
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Can't speak for the UHNW crowd, but I suspect that those with $10 million or so, despite being in 1% territory, don't actually feel all that rich. Certainly not enough to afford a G5 or a 100+ foot yacht. By outward appearances, most likely these folks live a normal, albeit comfortable, lifestyle -- under the radar..
Yes, this whole concept of wealth, wealthy UHNW, etc., has been discussed here many times. Most folks, looking at others see only what they spend (big or small house, new or old - expensive or cheap car, cruises or car trips, toys in the driveway or week-end DIY warrior, etc. etc. FEW of us actually know much about our neighbor's actual wealth. We may see what they spend, but have no idea if they are 1%ers or what.

Realistically, what's the difference between having $2mil, $10 mil or $50 mil? Even the guy with the $50 mil isn't going to run out and buy a Gulfstream. Realistically, you could make a case for all of them as "middle class." ( Heh, heh, some more middle class than others.) I think one of the great things about this country is that our middle class - however you define it is vast. While I'd always like to have more, I quit "striving" for more many years ago. Once I was comfortable (hey, there's a whole topic to explore - what is comfortable?) I just sort of coasted into FIRE. This is certainly a prime example of a YMMV topic.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:10 PM   #209
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During my career I had the opportunity to interact with a few Ultra High Net Worth individuals who were multigenerational billionaires. They were not outwardly flashy. I’m sure they had nice homes, cars, vacations, etc. Yet they definitely lived below their means.
Probably not too hard to live below their means if they were billionaires and still have several (or more) of just about anything anyone could want.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:25 PM   #210
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UHNW could be defined as the top 5% instead of by some $ amount. Then if you take that as a global number and you use the average income in Southern California of $54,000 per year as your income, then your are in the top 4% of the world. You are extremely wealthy.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:34 PM   #211
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Probably not too hard to live below their means if they were billionaires and still have several (or more) of just about anything anyone could want.
That sort of brings up a point that I've noticed about myself. Once I CAN buy something, I usually no longer have the interest in it. No, I can't buy a Gulfstream G700, but I could buy a used Cessna 172 (actually I DID buy - then sell a Cessna 150 when I was a 'kid.') I can't buy a yacht, but I could buy a nice bass boat (back in the day on the mainland) or a nice cruiser or sail boat here where I could (but wouldn't) use it every day.

I could own a sports car as well as my two beaters - but then I'd need to negotiate a parking space in the condo garage. I could afford it, but don't really want it.

I'm guessing that the "rich" (whatever that means) are similar. Why buy it just because you can? Even the "rich" know what they want, what they would use, what would bring them pleasure. Why would the "rich" as a group be any more into possessions than any of us - some of us are and some of us are not (regardless of our financial situation.)

It's not unlikely that many rich folks are happy to just upgrade from PBR to craft beer. Most of the rich probably find a Lambo much more headache than a nice new Town car. I think it's as simple as people are people no matter how much money they have. Some are "fulfilled" by possessions and other are not. Most of what I've heard here is that the rich are just like us - they just have more money. YMMV
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:40 PM   #212
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One observation I've had is that some of these pioneers who start an industry or something got there by hard work and sacrifice. They may be worth $20 or $30 million, but they are so used to sacrifice and perseverance that it is hard to get out of those habits. Sure they have a nice house and maybe a nice car, but they don't really change their lifestyle too much.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:43 PM   #213
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I split wood, butchered a deer and made a pot of home made ham & bean soup today. I had a sip of Seagrams before a slice of meatloaf & garden vegetables, homemade bread then watched a rerun of Dances with Wolves on DVD next to a roaring fire in the wood stove.


Now, what is a UHNWI ? If I can't do what I did today I don't want to be one.
Great comment. Life is for living...not accumulating.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:46 PM   #214
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I had to Google "Two Buck Chuck", never heard of that before.
Good stuff!
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:52 PM   #215
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If you don't have enough money to hire full time pilot(s), you may end up like John Travolta and have to fly you own jet(s).... Well at least he doesn't have far to drive (I mean walk) to get to one of his planes from his house.

Note: Even with almost unlimited funds, it doesn't make you immune to family tragedies. He's had a few....


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Ah, must be nice... Or is it?
Old 11-24-2020, 07:54 PM   #216
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Ah, must be nice... Or is it?

Careful what you wish for... I have brothers who fall into that category. One chooses to live a comfortable yet surprisingly modest lifestyle; the other lives an extravagant lifestyle with lots.of adult toys. In both cases, they each seem to have a lot on their respective plates, with plenty of "balls in the air", not the least of which is a seriously long list of "things" to manage!

I admit sometimes I do enjoy living vicariously through them, and celebrating their joys in life, but honestly I am perfectly content with my simple, low-stress (yet FULLY enriching-to-me) lifestyle, modest good fortune, and a certain degree of satisfaction and gratitude that I don't need more than I have, and that I actually want to possess LESS... this life can be VERY good 😊
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:56 PM   #217
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That sort of brings up a point that I've noticed about myself. Once I CAN buy something, I usually no longer have the interest in it. No, I can't buy a Gulfstream G700, but I could buy a used Cessna 172 (actually I DID buy - then sell a Cessna 150 when I was a 'kid.') I can't buy a yacht, but I could buy a nice bass boat (back in the day on the mainland) or a nice cruiser or sail boat here where I could (but wouldn't) use it every day.

I could own a sports car as well as my two beaters - but then I'd need to negotiate a parking space in the condo garage. I could afford it, but don't really want it.

I'm guessing that the "rich" (whatever that means) are similar. Why buy it just because you can? Even the "rich" know what they want, what they would use, what would bring them pleasure. Why would the "rich" as a group be any more into possessions than any of us - some of us are and some of us are not (regardless of our financial situation.)

It's not unlikely that many rich folks are happy to just upgrade from PBR to craft beer. Most of the rich probably find a Lambo much more headache than a nice new Town car. I think it's as simple as people are people no matter how much money they have. Some are "fulfilled" by possessions and other are not. Most of what I've heard here is that the rich are just like us - they just have more money. YMMV
The financial columnist Humberto Cruz and wife went to one car after he retired from the newspaper and wrote his column from home. Don't know what the model of the car that they sold, but they owned a Mercedes C300 in 2007 that they would maintain and keep for 20 years. Had a net worth back then of $4.5MM, I imagine it doubled since that time.
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:04 PM   #218
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I admit sometimes I do enjoy living vicariously through them, and celebrating their joys in life, but honestly I am perfectly content with my simple, low-stress (yet FULLY enriching-to-me) lifestyle, modest good fortune, and a certain degree of satisfaction and gratitude that I don't need more than I have, and that I actually want to possess LESS... this life can be VERY good 😊
I've often mentioned my best bud on the mainland - the one with the fast cars and half a $mil in debt at 76! I love riding in his Camaro or (next summer) his Vette. I'll even buy the gas! Talk about living vicariously! YMMV
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:12 PM   #219
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If you don't have enough money to hire full time pilot(s), you may end up like John Travolta and have to fly you own jet(s).... Well at least he doesn't have far to drive (I mean walk) to get to one of his planes from his house.

Note: Even with almost unlimited funds, it doesn't make you immune to family tragedies. He's had a few....

It was in 1984 when I first read about Travolta's obsession with airplanes. Good for him. His money can get him something he loves, compared to some celebrities who squander their fortune and end up with nothing.

I don't love anything that much because it does not love me back.
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:41 PM   #220
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It was in 1984 when I first read about Travolta's obsession with airplanes. Good for him. His money can get him something he loves, compared to some celebrities who squander their fortune and end up with nothing.

I don't love anything that much because it does not love me back.
I like people who have a passion in this life. I wish I had more passion. So when Travolta moved to his air-friendly community, I "lived" the story and (very slightly) envied him as I still have 'some' passion for personal aircraft though I haven't owned one myself for 50 years now. Good on John!
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