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Old 11-24-2020, 08:57 PM   #221
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I just learned from the Web that Travolta's 707 in the above photo has been donated to an aviation historical society in Australia.

And out of curiosity, I also looked for his net worth as well as that of several other prominent actors.

John Travolta: $250M
Jack Nicholson: $400M
Tom Cruise: $570M
Robert Redford: $200M
Paul Newman: $80M at his death in 2008
Mel Gibson: $425M
Robert de Niro: $500M
George Clooney: $510M

All of these fellows can easily afford a personal Gulfstream. And perhaps they all do.
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:17 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
I just learned from the Web that Travolta's 707 in the above photo has been donated to an aviation historical society in Australia.

And out of curiosity, I also looked for his net worth as well as that of several other prominent actors.

John Travolta: $250M
Jack Nicholson: $400M
Tom Cruise: $570M
Robert Redford: $200M
Paul Newman: $80M at his death in 2008
Mel Gibson: $425M
Robert de Niro: $500M
George Clooney: $510M

All of these fellows can easily afford a personal Gulfstream. And perhaps they all do.
I guess it just shows how I think. I don't mind sinking 10% or maybe even 30% of my total net worth into a place to live. But, sinking 15% or more into a $75Mil aircraft would really bother me - even if I could afford it. What I JUST might do is start flying one of the fractional jet services. Probably only $25K to fly from HON to ORD. I could probably afford that now - one time in my life - but I don't even fly 1st class and I COULD do that every time.
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:30 PM   #223
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I guess it just shows how I think. I don't mind sinking 10% or maybe even 30% of my total net worth into a place to live. But, sinking 15% or more into a $75Mil aircraft would really bother me - even if I could afford it. What I JUST might do is start flying one of the fractional jet services. Probably only $25K to fly from HON to ORD. I could probably afford that now - one time in my life - but I don't even fly 1st class and I COULD do that every time.
I saw somewhere that a chartered Lear jet costs $3K-4K per flight hour, while a chartered G-IV runs $5K-8K per hour. Your HON-ORD flight will cost more than $25K one way.
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:36 PM   #224
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I don't even fly 1st class and I COULD do that every time.
I haven't flown since I retired (almost 10 years now)... Back then I had to fly a lot both domestically and internationally and it got really old... The last few years on the job I told my boss that I refused to fly unless it was first/business class... I think in the back of my mind I actually wanted them to push back and say no (it would have given me another excuse to quit sooner than I did) but they didn't...

There is no way I could stand flying in coach from the US to Asia or Europe... Of course that was all on their nickel....
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:52 PM   #225
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I haven't flown since I retired (almost 10 years now)... Back then I had to fly a lot both domestically and internationally and it got really old... The last few years on the job I told my boss that I refused to fly unless it was first/business class... I think in the back of my mind I actually wanted them to push back and say no (it would have given me another excuse to quit sooner than I did) but they didn't...

There is no way I could stand flying in coach from the US to Asia or Europe... Of course that was all on their nickel....

My megacorp's policy was to pay for a business class seat for flights of longer than 6 hours, so international travel was not bad at all. But it also meant domestic trips for work were always in coach. Argh!

And single-aisle aircrafts for short hauls do not have seats as comfortable as those of twin-aisle larger jets. You are talking about much pain and suffering here, for long domestic flights going from one coast to the other. Argh!
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Old 11-24-2020, 11:28 PM   #226
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I haven't flown since I retired (almost 10 years now)... Back then I had to fly a lot both domestically and internationally and it got really old... The last few years on the job I told my boss that I refused to fly unless it was first/business class... I think in the back of my mind I actually wanted them to push back and say no (it would have given me another excuse to quit sooner than I did) but they didn't...

There is no way I could stand flying in coach from the US to Asia or Europe... Of course that was all on their nickel....
No worry. All business travels will be replaced by ZOOM.
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Old 11-25-2020, 12:18 AM   #227
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Years ago, I read a study about happiness. One thing that jumped out to me: Happiest people were the one who lived somewhere they are the wealthiest among their neighbors. I guess ignorance is bliss after all!
Interesting, as I've certainly noticed pre-covid, that I really enjoyed what I call slum-shopping. It's where I shop at places that cater to largely minimum wage workers.
Partly it's because when I shop at stores where the clerks drive BMW's and they are 16 to 18 yr olds, and the store has a piano player to entertain us , and it's really pretty inside, I know I'm overpaying for everything to pay for all that atmosphere and stuff.

When I slum-shop it's freeing as I can buy as much as I want and don't need to worry about the cost.
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Old 11-25-2020, 12:56 AM   #228
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As soon as I find a car that I like better than my 2009 Venza, I'll buy it! The auto manufacturers just are NOT cooperating.
2021 Venza?
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Old 11-25-2020, 01:00 AM   #229
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However, my first cousin is married to the front man/songwriter/guitarist of one of the biggest bands of the last 25 years and they are upwards of $250-300 million which qualifies; so I'll answer for her.
Now I haven't finished the thread yet, so it might have been asked and answered, but I am curious just to know who this musician is.....
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Old 11-25-2020, 05:57 PM   #230
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Before [the UHNW person] passed, he gave each of his children enough seed money to go off and build their own thing, whatever that was. For us here, it would be more money than we’d ever need, but they were used to luxurious living.
How well do kids used to luxurious living while growing up adjust to a more modest lifestyle as adults because their wealthy parents donate most of their assets to charity? Here is an article describing how some wealthy parents plan to completely or partially disinherit their children (for example, Bill Gates has stated that each of his children will only inherit $10M - ouch!).

Some kids of wealthy parents are lucky enough to "work" for the family's charitable foundation. I use scare quotes around 'work' because usually this isn't work as the 99% experience it (nasty bosses, deadlines, obnoxious co-workers & customers, the ever-present threat of being fired, etc.) I like to argue that adversity builds character, and this includes 'real work', not 'fake work'.
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:55 PM   #231
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What Is an Ultra-High Net-Worth Individual (UHNWI)? Ultra-high-net-worth individuals (UHNWI) are people with investable assets of at least $30 million. They comprise the wealthiest people in the world and control a tremendous amount of global wealth.


Any Ultra High Net Worth Individual (UHNWI) here? Amazing job!

1. What do you do for fun?
2. How you get to where you are?
3. What are you doing to stay wealthy?
4. What is your splurge?
5. Do you own a jet? a yacht?
6. Do you have houses in different countries?

I am trying to visualize how UHNWI really lives? Thanks.
I'll entertain this question. I am (just in the HNW) category eking in at the 30m level net worth (now around 28m but it has been approx 36, at one point.

My allocation is:

-Assets in shares – 56%
-Assets in property – 30%
-Assets in cash –11%
-Assets in Gold/Bitcoin 3%

Total debt is is around 7% (being mortgages against some of my properties).

1. What do you do for fun?

Well, the first thing is I have the freedom to do whatever I want. But I actually enjoy the simple things in life. Start day with a beach walk with my dog, then meet up at a cafe for coffee. I eat super healthy. Swim daily in the sun. Evenings are often dinners at restaurants, and wine with friends. Wild partying, clubs etc perhaps once a month (I am slowing down now in my old age of 49 .

Travel whenever I want (usually once every three week). Usually stay at 5 star hotels, but don't spend on crazy penthouse rooms.

In terms of dining, I don't go crazy, but the great thing is whenever I want I can go wherever I want. I am still conscious of price. So if for example I see a good bottle of wine at a nice restaurant, but I consider it overpriced, I will struggle to feel comfortable about buying it.

Not into fancy designer clothes. Have a modest car (and not a fleet of sports cars, although I do at some point plan on buying something special). Rent a very live place (despite having numerous properties across 4 countries. Most of my properties are higher yielding upper-mid range, and I have one mansion (which is the most expensive and produces the lowest yield).

2. How you get to where you are?

Perhaps surprisingly, I did it the hard way. Grinding away at a processional job (admittedly high paying), and making good investment decisions. Buying property prior to boom periods with leverage. Buying great stocks (I'm a huge Buffet fan). And from a very young age saving (kind of the Rich Dad Poor Dad approach, which I read many years after I had pretty much already applied all the various themes in that book). I started with nothing and came from a modest family. I have deleveraged over time, and now have 7% debt (both due to paying off, taking gains on some assets to repay debt, and due to assets rising in value). My assets are all productive, and whilst values fluctuate, they are over time moving upwards. Overall, a very stable yield is produced.

3. What are you doing to stay wealthy?

Tax is a big issue. I live in jurisdictions that help me minimize the tax I pay. I stay well clear of get rich to good to be true schemes. I never lend money. I have a good bull-**** detector for investment proposals (and rarely invest in private ventures). I have every 6 months since 2004 calculated my net wealth, allocations, various financial metrics and then set myself both short term and long term goals. (Looking back at my records, my net worth in 2004 was 1.65m). I calculated at one point a relatively consistent growth rate annualized of around 25% each year (which included my investment returns, asset valuation growth, and professional income. This year I will am actually down and will likely not achieve another 25% growth. First break in this pattern in a long time.

I don't do any "day trading" be it with stock or my bitcoin. All are long term investments. With stock its very much a Buffet value investing style.

4. What is your splurge?
Good quality wine on a regular basis. High quality cocaine as a treat from time to time. Nice restaurant meals. I still fly economy but stay in high-end hotels. My main "splurges" seem to be new purchases of stakes in listed companies, which my friends laugh at as even that is productive. They tell me I need a proper hedonistic spending vice. I occasionally give to animal rescue organizations. Not much of a charity guy, and I don't like being invited to charity balls and being expect to donate. I would not rule out spending on kids who have a hard start in life if I can give them some meaningful pleasure or positively impact their future.

5. Do you own a jet? a yacht?

Nope. But I do travel occasionally on private jets of friends, and spend days occasionally on stunning yachts of wealthy friends (the cost of running is far too much for me but I am happy to enjoy the hospitality of other. Of course I contribute my share by bringing great wines along). The yacht owners are mostly true billionaires or in the 400m+ range.

6. Do you have houses in different countries?
Yes, although not for self use. Each country has been chosen primarily for its investment potential. I look for growth, legal system, absence of capital gains tax, stable income and quality tenants etc.

Hope that is of interest to others. Would be interested to hear from others in this position. I don't contribute much here, but an a lurker and read the forums from time to time. If there are questions to my I might answer but done expect a quick reply.

Cheers!
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Old 11-25-2020, 11:05 PM   #232
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I just looked back at my first post here:

Ready to retire - how I calculated it.

Cool looking back on the progress I have made since then! (I kept working throughout that time. No regrets in doing so as the work provided stimulation, a sense of purpose, structure, and also created a healthy buffer of income that not only enabled me to borrow to finance investments but also provided in income stream for me to invest.
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Old 11-25-2020, 11:58 PM   #233
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I'll entertain this question. I am (just in the HNW) category eking in at the 30m level net worth (now around 28m but it has been approx 36, at one point.
37andhappy,
It'll be extremely insightful to learn from a UHNWI. Thank you in advance.

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Originally Posted by 37andhappy View Post
My allocation is:

-Assets in shares – 56%
-Assets in property – 30%
-Assets in cash –11%
-Assets in Gold/Bitcoin 3%
30% of assets in property? What (%) ROI you consider worth buying? Do you choose a multi-family complex? Condo? Houses? What's your preference?

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1. What do you do for fun?

Well, the first thing is I have the freedom to do whatever I want. But I actually enjoy the simple things in life. Start day with a beach walk with my dog, then meet up at a cafe for coffee. I eat super healthy. Swim daily in the sun. Evenings are often dinners at restaurants, and wine with friends. Wild partying, clubs etc perhaps once a month (I am slowing down now in my old age of 49 .
Very nice! Similar to what I have envisioned.

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2. How you get to where you are?

Perhaps surprisingly, I did it the hard way. Grinding away at a professional job (admittedly high paying), and making good investment decisions. Buying property prior to boom periods with leverage. Buying great stocks (I'm a huge Buffet fan).
Awesome insight. Just another proof that you don't have to start with a silver spoon. I am also a working professional, making a regular income. But still, we can accumulate a meaningful size of wealth.

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I don't do any "day trading" be it with stock or my bitcoin. All are long term investments. With stock its very much a Buffet value investing style.
Very happy to hear that. I don't day-trading (gambling) either. I used to follow Buffett style of investing, but now more leaning toward Peter Lynch's approach. It fits my investment style more.

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I would not rule out spending on kids who have a hard start in life if I can give them some meaningful pleasure or positively impact their future.
Same here. I am not big on charity. I always think the top execs there are riping a profit out of all these NGOs. I don't like that and I don't want to be a part of it. However, when it comes to helping children with less prestige, that's a different story. Children should have a fair chance in life to live out their full potentials. If we have the means to assist them, we should. I am completely with you on this one.

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5. Do you own a jet? a yacht?

Nope. But I do travel occasionally on private jets of friends, and spend days occasionally on stunning yachts of wealthy friends (the cost of running is far too much for me but I am happy to enjoy the hospitality of other. Of course I contribute my share by bringing great wines along).
I can understand why owning a boat is not for everyone. But since I'm into fishing and I have a wild dream about living on a boat on the weekends in the bay or something. I still think I will consider an affordable size boat in the future.

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Hope that is of interest to others. Would be interested to hear from others in this position. I don't contribute much here, but an a lurker and read the forums from time to time. If there are questions to my I might answer but done expect a quick reply.

Cheers!
Thanks again, 37andhappy, for the wonderful insight!

Best regards,

HawaiiShrimp
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Old 11-26-2020, 12:49 AM   #234
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37andhappy,
It'll be extremely insightful to learn from a UHNWI. Thank you in advance.



30% of assets in property? What (%) ROI you consider worth buying? Do you choose a multi-family complex? Condo? Houses? What's your preference?



Very nice! Similar to what I have envisioned.



Awesome insight. Just another proof that you don't have to start with a silver spoon. I am also a working professional, making a regular income. But still, we can accumulate a meaningful size of wealth.



Very happy to hear that. I don't day-trading (gambling) either. I used to follow Buffett style of investing, but now more leaning toward Peter Lynch's approach. It fits my investment style more.



Same here. I am not big on charity. I always think the top execs there are riping a profit out of all these NGOs. I don't like that and I don't want to be a part of it. However, when it comes to helping children with less prestige, that's a different story. Children should have a fair chance in life to live out their full potentials. If we have the means to assist them, we should. I am completely with you on this one.



I can understand why owning a boat is not for everyone. But since I'm into fishing and I have a wild dream about living on a boat on the weekends in the bay or something. I still think I will consider an affordable size boat in the future.



Thanks again, 37andhappy, for the wonderful insight!

Best regards,

HawaiiShrimp
Welcome. Happy to contribute. We seem quite similar.

For my properties, I always focused on properties that would result in the largest capital gains on selling. So for example, my best investment was for a property that I bought for around 800K with 20% deposit. It was cashflow positive throughout and I sold it 9 years later for 2.8m. So an amazing ROI (and zero capital gains tax).

I'm not a big fan of status properties. I always look at yield, expenses, capital appreciation. Have bought houses, condos, duplexes. Considered entire buildings but have not done so yet. I don't see easy money being made on property at the moment, but if there is ever a big correction or crisis I would pile in. Greedy when others fearful as served me very well.

On the day trading, I have friends who I believe kid themselves to think that can do this profitably long term be it FX, stock, crypto. I don't think its possible. To me is unproductive and wasteful. I do have perhaps 10% of my stocks allocated to companies I might trade a little more actively, but vast majority is long term and accumulates over time.

Yes, a boat, low maintenance for fishing or fun I think is fine. The types of boats I was referring to come with a crew of 8-12 people, and can travel internationally (in my part of the world to tropical islands). We eat onboard, play in beautiful clean waters, and visit untouched islands. But these things are super expensive to maintain. The fuel alone is crazy. So not my thing to own (but love joining others who have such toys!)
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Old 12-02-2020, 07:43 AM   #235
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I am not, but my ex-husband has one as a client who became a friend of his/ours. Last I knew, he owned an 8-seater plane, which we flew on once (if you can do it, I'd highly recommend it). He owned 3 boats (at least), including a 130' yacht, that he docked at his house on the water in Annapolis (which was next to his parents' house, which he bought for them). He owned a monster penthouse condo in DC, and an apartment in Miami. He also owned a restaurant or two, in addition to owning his own software company. The houses are filled with art/sculptures etc. Oh, and he loves cars - he has two Bentleys, a Porsche, and I think at one point he had a Lambourgini....and a few others - the Miami house had a few cars as well.

He always had a lot of friends around him. He definitely enjoys life, but he is also always working - always on call, on the phone, on the computer.
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Old 12-02-2020, 07:48 AM   #236
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Don't...

https://www.fraseryachts.com/en/buy-a-yacht/
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Old 12-02-2020, 09:30 AM   #237
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Years ago I was looking at boats just for fun and I was surprised that there was so little outdoor space. I found the same problem with some yachts, like this one. I'd want an awning to prevent sunburn on the largest deck but I'd want it removable. I guess I'm imagining having a barbeque out in the open.
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Old 12-02-2020, 10:20 AM   #238
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Years ago I was looking at boats just for fun and I was surprised that there was so little outdoor space. I found the same problem with some yachts, like this one. I'd want an awning to prevent sunburn on the largest deck but I'd want it removable. I guess I'm imagining having a barbeque out in the open.


Dr No yacht. Price of one I found on the Web: $9M.


How about a catamaran, which lets you go a lot further cheaper with wind on its sail, has more open space, and is much less expensive to boot?

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Old 12-02-2020, 12:32 PM   #239
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This is the beigest unsolved problem of uneven distribution of wealth - there is no solution. “Inequality is bad.” “Inequality is dangerous.” but no feasible solution exists. Most if not all social systems are making the uneven distribution of wealth more pronounced in the name of economic growth & Capitalism. Entrepreneurship, as an example, will always contribute to the problem. It generates extraordinary wealth for a few (the best of the best individuals). Entrepreneurship also merits: innovations and products that improve qualities of lives of many people. It may motivate people to become the top 1% (LOL).
Overall, when the top 1% continues to get richer while the bottom 20% continues to struggle and lose hope, that cannot be good for humankind if we believe in humanity.
There are plenty of examples of countries that frown on capitalism where there isn't a bottom 20%...it's a bottom 99%. So, I'll take a bottom 20% over a bottom 99% every single time even if that means that some people have "too much". And, of course, the bottom 20% in the US and other modern countries are far better off than the 99% in other countries.
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Old 12-02-2020, 12:51 PM   #240
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There are plenty of examples of countries that frown on capitalism where there isn't a bottom 20%...it's a bottom 99%. So, I'll take a bottom 20% over a bottom 99% every single time even if that means that some people have "too much". And, of course, the bottom 20% in the US and other modern countries are far better off than the 99% in other countries.

And there are plenty of countries which, while not hostile to capitalism, have somewhat more aggressive income redistribution in place. UHNWIs exist there, but the bottom 20% avoid some of the harsher realities of those in the USA.

Sorry about the diversion into politics... we now return you to the Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous channel.
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