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Old 07-26-2021, 07:58 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Maidensong View Post
You've already proven you can be successful in business. Now you have the opportunity to realize that you are more than what you do (did).

Presumably there are people in your life you care about. Now is the time to pour yourself into your relationships. Romance your wife. Spend time with your kids.

You've accumulated enough stuff. What about your spiritual life? Are there questions about "life, the universe and everything" that are churning in your heart and mind? You have the freedom to explore that now without the tyranny of needing to earn a living.

Travel. Experiment with creative outlets. Take up a different challenge. Make friends with yourself. Give yourself credit for being more than a paycheck generator.

Have some fun, for Pete's sake! You've earned it!
Good advice for all of us at that point where we're trying to decide whether to ER - or otherwise change the direction of our life.
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I can relate.
Old 07-26-2021, 09:16 AM   #42
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I can relate.

So I'm close to poppin' smoke and dustin' off to retirement in a little more than a year. I work for another agency but I had my freelance biz for several years as I was grinding it out for companies that kept getting acquired by larger groups and managed by younger folks who merely managed by spreadsheet and had zero affinity for the business they were in. Like you, I had market forces beyond my control affect my biz and after sitting in on way too many conference calls with people on both coasts who were more concerned with "keyword" optimization than creating solid marketing messages, I realized it was time to cut loose. I was (and am) pretty good at what I do but ageism prevents people from seeing that at times. Sr VP's even now will compliment my work in agency-wide emails but look shocked when a project Mgr introduces them to me, cuz they'll say surprisingly: "You did that!!??" on some successful campaign or whatnot.
Yep, I still wish I had another 10 or 12 years b/c in the stillest of times, I still come up with decent ideas for projects and keep notes. But the nature of my biz means a lot of uncompensated OT, multiple personalities, incredible deadlines and operational BS thanks to overlapping technologies. The tail has really been waggin' the dog.
Too many former colleagues have either died at work or after a bender from stress-related illness and in taking my current job, I try to make peace in knowing I am backing away slowly for health and mind's sake.
Maybe I have something ahead where my desires/capabilities will merge with an opportunity to still be "in the game" but not on a heavy level; I don't know. We all have to come to terms with what makes us tick. I do miss some aspects of the former work life but the older, wiser me realizes there's such a huge trade to be made as I see fewer days ahead than behind.
Good luck to you in whatever you decide.
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Old 07-26-2021, 09:25 AM   #43
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Anyone ever 'want more'?

OMG. OP, youíre 46, have $4 million and you listen to REO Speed Wagon? Condolences. What a sad story. Obviously, you need to take another year off and get some tunes from this century. Otherwise, youíre wasting your early retirement and we donít allow that around here.
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Old 07-26-2021, 09:57 AM   #44
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JMO for a guy with no formal schooling and who worked hard at his own business for decades, your plan for economic assistance to your kids is over the top.



Don't do/pay everything for them, let them go out and figure out how to make their way in the world like their parents did. ...


You have time to think about it ...
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Old 07-26-2021, 10:04 AM   #45
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OMG. OP, youíre 46, have $4 million and you listen to REO Speed Wagon? Condolences. What a sad story. Obviously, you need to take another year off and get some tunes from this century. Otherwise, youíre wasting your early retirement and we donít allow that around here.
Not sure I could name you a song from this century without thinking about it for a while. No doubt it would be by an artist that started playing in the 60's or 70's. Our youngest (32) loves Classic Rock (heh, heh, only thing I played in my house though the other kids did develop more contemporary music tastes. Full disclosure - youngest also likes country 'cause that's what DW always played.)

One could do a lot worse than listening to REO IMHO though YMMV.
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Conventional wisdom recalls wealthy folks replied:
Old 07-26-2021, 05:49 PM   #46
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Conventional wisdom recalls wealthy folks replied:

Question: How much money is enough? And can you ever have too much? I know people who have more money than they’ll ever spend and yet they are still not happy. So what is the right amount?

For John D. Rockefeller the answer was “just a little bit more.” At the peak of his wealth, Rockefeller had a net worth of about 1% of the entire US economy. He owned 90% of all the oil & gas industry of his time. Compared to today’s rich guys, Rockefeller makes Bill Gates and Warren Buffett look like paupers.

And yet he still wanted “just a little bit more.”

Before you can know how much is enough, you’ve got to define “enough.”

Link: https://www.shreveporttimes.com/stor...ugh/930449001/

I read JBogles "Enough" book, I re-read sections often.
Theres always something new I forgot.

Good luck & Best wishes...
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Always want more!
Old 07-28-2021, 04:50 AM   #47
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Always want more!

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Originally Posted by MichealKnight View Post
I'm almost 46. Wife, 2 young kids. I've never been to college even a day so no 'fallback' job as a doctor lawyer Indian Chief or plumber or dog catcher.

Anyhow, I had a mostly successful small business career....mostly set records, mostly did well - - until the very end where some things were my fault, and certainly a lot of it was bigger better competitors, and market forces that cut my run more prematurely than I'd have liked.

Basically, I have $3.4mm in liquid cash-stocks plus, own personal residence outright that easily is worth $1.0mm. I've been kicking back for 5 months now, plotting my overall strategy to stay retired ie asset allocation, possible real estate buys, etc.

Darnit, part of me wants my mini-empire back. I usually had a decent sized business - -a few acres and a building on a nice main road, staff of 40 full time people, lovely unique perks , choice seats at the hockey game, the whole nine yards. BUT - a big part of me is relieved. No more employee stuff. No more customer crap. No more sitting duck, waiting for the newest e-commerce fad to take a bite out of my bum bum.

But at times - I want it back. Many of my staff nucleus were with me 20+ years in what is a high turnover business. And a few of my best people - visit with me once a week, telling me that the minute I start a new business - - they'll take a huge pay-cut and join me in a heartbeat.

So the last month I was on a piece of property - - freaking choice location. BUT....would've taken some time vis a vis tearing down buildings, paving lots, getting permits, establishing lines of credit, hiring a few people (would've been just 8 of us, a tiny army all of us hands-on ), construction of a new facility....THEN, some decent losses while the business establishes and I learn the new market.

Total cash needed was $2.3 million.

I punted. I certainly made a good faith offer, but deep down I was scared of the risk. Had things gone well - - I'd have only made $210k per year which is only 9% returns. ALOT of things would have to go right for that to happen and frankly, it's less than I used to make at my apex. One one hand it's not "worth it" to risk 2.3 mill, get back into a cut-throat business, and hope it goes well not to mention the 70 hour weeks are back which I'm used to, and would happily do because the people. that are ready to join - - are a pleasure. BUT, I knowingly put in an offer that was good - -but I sorta knew someone would beat me out by just a little....and sure enough it happened today.

BUT if things didn't work out in the new business - I think I'd lose a good $400k of my total investment - - I can't lose $400k with no hopes of recouping it.

Darnit, I'd love to show my kids my new place, even see them work in it to learn things.....but then I'm thinking, if I fail, how cute would it be if I had to tell kids that the whole college expense thing is not gonna happen right?

So here I am.

Bottom line, if over the long term, large-cap stocks can return me an *average* of 5.5%..... and if my real estate investments return 4.5% - - I can live a rather nice lifestyle, handle college costs, weddings, etc, and then probably have enough to live comfortably till we croak. Not the lofty way I had envisioned, but nevertheless....something to be thankful for and satisfied with.

I look at historical S@P500 returns and feel over the long term , my 5.5% is realistic.

My 4.5% would mean a long term investment in a property. leased to a TacoBell, 7-11, etc, OR rental homes....making a modest 3% net return on yearly rent, plus an average yearly appreciation of 2.5%. (Much of the appreciation is gone after real estate commissions when you sell the house hence I'm not counting the full 2.5 appreciation towards profits). Again - history shows about 3.5% average appreciation. And while there's ups and downs to come..... for the next 10-15 years, anywhere from Atlanta to Raleigh to Sarasota is gonna have more population growth and more housing demand so at very least I feel realistic in my expectations.

But darn. Part of me is relieved today.

But part of me is gut punched.

And the holy trinity of Dunkin double chocolate, McDonald's double cheeseburger value meal, and blasting music in the car (Peter Gabriel and REO).....hasn't cured me yet.

Comments, questions, insults, anything is appreciated.

I'm a decade older at 56. Sold my business 2 years ago after 20+ years, Still working there for now. Miss the larger paycheck, but not the hassles. Mini-empire yes. Your company ownership defines who you are mostly to those around you. "hello meet " " he owns " ". Nice feeling, have to miss that.



I was asked the other day do I miss it and the perks? Respond : Would you rather have enough money so you don't have to work or own a business? The money wins out. Employees are no fun anymore in my former industry. Do some consulting or start a small company 1-4 employees and keep it simple. Don;'t risk your nest egg, you worked hard to get it. You can start a decent low overhead business for 100k. Also, with things going the way they are now, its like the roaring 20's. The fun train has to stop sometime. I sold my company 6 months before COVID. Without PPP the company may have folded. Good luck



People say I'm crazy
Doing what I'm doing
Well, they give me all kinds of warnings
To save me from ruin
When I say that I'm okay, well they look at me kinda strange
"Surely, you're not happy now, you no longer play the game"
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Thanks IndiaLust
Old 07-28-2021, 05:06 AM   #48
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Thanks IndiaLust

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You don't need permission to work till death, double down on risk, abandon family and friends for ego, dominance, control. The tax man, the lawyers, and the larger empire will happily monetize your need for action. Put it all on red seven and spin that wheel.

I don't expect to see much of you around these parts though.

What's it worth to you? Upside and downside?

Points well taken and they mirror many of my thoughts. Certainly I plan to look for a venture....but thus far in 5 months I came across (2) better than realistic opportunities, and I made a half-hearted attempt on both - almost throwing the match on purpose.

Some of my thoughts were the same: Banks get paid my be. Licensing fees - paid by me. Staff, gets paid. Customers get catered to by me. Myriad of vendors get to bill me. Everyone gets a nice chunk without doing much - while the whole risk is mine all over again and my ROI while *better* than paper assets like the stock market.....the risk is much more and if I don't succeed - I'll be out a good chunk of money forever.

Also, I can't deny - I love doing nothing. I love it so much. We haven't gone to the movies ever since Covid started. Later this afternoon I've got the whole theater rented out for private viewing, and DW, DD and myself are gone go see Back to the Future -- I can't wait
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Oh my, REO
Old 07-28-2021, 05:15 AM   #49
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Oh my, REO

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Originally Posted by Markola View Post
OMG. OP, youíre 46, have $4 million and you listen to REO Speed Wagon? Condolences. What a sad story. Obviously, you need to take another year off and get some tunes from this century. Otherwise, youíre wasting your early retirement and we donít allow that around here.

How do I say this - I love science progress. I love medical progress. I"m glad that people are less prone to getting beaten up for their skin color or whom they go to bed with. BUT beyond that, I truly despise modernity. The digital life. The slavery to tech. The weakening of relationships. Culture decay. Fiscal irresponsibility. I really have a disdain for it. And watching my old shows, older movies, my older music - -frankly makes me feel I'm above it, and inoculated from it. I'll even invite more ridicule now: One of my 'fun' purchases these days is buying 80's t-shirts themed after anything from KnightRider to Shawshank Redemption and I feel like its a coat of armor around me

Back when I listened to REO - - I don't remember lockdown drills and shootings at my school.

Sadly, those "ancient" days are gone, and today....they can all eat organic, sustainable, they can save the earth without ever once talking to a stranger, they can go to memorials for the latest mass shooting live-streamed-on -Facebook, they can get all jealous because their friends puts contrived cherry picked moments on Social Media, they can live check to check because they need the latest phones and fashions, they can have babies without proper family and financial structure ....they can listen to certain genres of music....and walk around angry and impatient, and wag their fingers and bob their heads and literally have fist-fights over French fries. (Google "McDonald's Fights....you'll see tons of this. And you'll notice a certain way of walk and talk is common ....)....then they can wonder why they are uptight when they have to reach into their $400 handbag to pay the $50 doctor co-pay that drives them mad. And they sadly have to wonder why there's more memorials for victims of mass violence.

Sadly I've got young kids who will have to be a part of this stuff.



BUt - yes, in 45 minutes - on non-streaming, regular cable tv....Leave it to Beaver starts
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pletal - thanks!
Old 07-28-2021, 05:26 AM   #50
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pletal - thanks!

It seems we relate on some of the things - - even the emotional part of being king of castle.

Trust me, the employee problems and drama got to be too much. And the new crop of people coming up are too smart for me, and attitudes and priorities are just off the reservation, at least in my opinion. It's curious, the "megacorp" that bought my business....already reduced my 40 employee headcount to 32. And a few of the biggest whiners are now told to tow the line or get out - - that MegaCorp makes enough money and doesn't need their production. (Hee Hee)And then with cutthroat online induced competition (which I realize many retailers face)..... it got to be maddening some days. This new venture - would've been in the same industry and I could've scaled it down from 40 employees to 8 ---mostly trusted old hands - -but it's so darn cash intensive hence the 2.3mm outlay. Sort of daunting to me.

I've toyed with doing like you said - something small but that would involve me learning a new trade, versus the *sole* trade I've known since I was 16.

One thing I'm seriously considering is once I feel Covid Safe, taking Spanish classes at community college. I"m already good with basic conversation learning on my own over the years, good enough to put customers at ease and at least build rapport. I'd say I'm as good as a high school student who has taken 2 years of it -- and my accent is way more spot-on. I'd like to be fluent. And then down the road I feel this skill, might help me with a small scale enterprise because now I can communicate totally with what is a huge growing, and profitable market.

Time will tell.
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Old 07-28-2021, 05:28 AM   #51
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Ivins fan, appreciate your comments on going over the top for kids.

I'm sure as time goes I will trim some of my self expectations.

But, certain things I really want to do, now I won't have a business to let them train in and maybe do for themselves as I had way back when. SO unlike me they'll have to go the college route. I'd like to make sure that financially - they can do all their efforts allow. The other stuff I mentioned ---yes, to some is exorbitant, to others it's par. Everyone's point of view is different.

I'm sure mine will evolve as time goes on.
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Old 07-28-2021, 05:33 AM   #52
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BUt - yes, in 45 minutes - on non-streaming, regular cable tv....Leave it to Beaver starts
Thanks for the reminder...I'm on the other channel now watching Jack Benny. Gotta remember to switch over to MeTV at 8 for my Beaver fix. If I don't get Beaver twice a day, I feel the day is wasted.
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Old 07-28-2021, 05:42 AM   #53
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As a general rule, the past was not as good as we remember and the future will not be as bad as we fear.
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Old 07-28-2021, 05:47 AM   #54
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Money is cheap today. If you are looking to start something, I think now is a great time to do it. Look in to some of the online peer-to-peer and crowdsourcing places to raise capital. With interest rates so low, these novice investors will likely accept low returns that will give them anything more than savings accounts. Offering 5% returns will likely result in lots of money being thrown at you. Instead of putting up a huge part of the money yourself, maybe put in just $100k and go from there. Start smaller if necessary.

If you have the itch, go for it. Again, it's likely one of the best times to start a new business because financing costs are so low. Who knows how long the window will be there? What's the worst that happens, you lose $100k of your own plus the time/effort? However, having had a successful career, it sounds like the odds are in your favor that you'd have another success.
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Old 07-28-2021, 05:59 AM   #55
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Later this afternoon I've got the whole theater rented out for private viewing, and DW, DD and myself are gone go see Back to the Future -- I can't wait
Dude, you are not ready yet, or dare I say... cannot afford the retirement lifestyle you are projecting to need/want! First, the average Joe does not rent out a movie theater for his family to go watch Back to the Future! That's great you can/want to do it, but that's fat cat living. At $3.4M at 46/47 a 4% WR is arguably very risky and spits out $136K gross/yr. The color you have provided is telling me you are accustomed/desire a much more lucrative spend... say double that or more. I'm just reading between the lines.

Second, you have too much fire in your belly. As others have said, build something as a consultant/1099 guy that maybe risks your time, but with min capital. You can still "build something" and get your fix.

I can totally relate, but can tell you by what you have written, I do not think you will be happy living on 4% (or what should be closer to 3%) of your nest egg if you quit now.

Take the time to really think it through.
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Old 07-28-2021, 07:08 AM   #56
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You have too much fire in your belly. As others have said, build something as a consultant/1099 guy that maybe risks your time, but with min capital. You can still "build something" and get your fix.

I can totally relate, but can tell you by what you have written, I do not think you will be happy living on 4% (or what should be closer to 3%) of your nest egg if you quit now.

Take the time to really think it through.
I have to agree with Dawg on this. I retired from my MegaCorp job in 2019 but did miss some of the action and financial reward, even though I didn't need more money. So when an opportunity came along to do the Consultant/1099 thing, I took it. The big appeal here is that there is no financial risk and I can walk away at anytime it starts to feel like a j*b again.
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Old 07-28-2021, 07:43 AM   #57
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I think most people on this site wouldn't mind a little more, but the majority of them probably don't want it bad enough to ever consider going back to work.
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Old 07-28-2021, 08:21 AM   #58
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Ö.Your company ownership defines who you are mostly to those around you. "hello meet " " he owns " ". Nice feeling, have to miss that.

I was asked the other day do I miss it and the perks? Respond : Would you rather have enough money so you don't have to work or own a business? The money wins out. Employees are no fun anymore in my former industry."

Itís perhaps not as high profile but I take a quiet pride in being an owner of thousands of the very best companies all over the world. And most of them and their governments owe me money, which they are paying me back with interest. Their hundreds of millions of employees all work 24/7 to fund my early retirement.

I wouldnít try that line at a cocktail party, as Iíd sound like an a$$, and I wonít be sponsoring a Little League team for advertisement, but itís true!
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Old 07-28-2021, 09:20 AM   #59
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Thanks for the memory.

People say I'm crazy
Doing what I'm doing
Well, they give me all kinds of warnings
To save me from ruin
When I say that I'm okay, well they look at me kinda strange
"Surely, you're not happy now, you no longer play the game"
Unfortunately for him (and for us) JL went BACK to the game - and we know what happened then. YMMV
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Old 07-28-2021, 09:23 AM   #60
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As a general rule, the past was not as good as we remember and the future will not be as bad as we fear.
Words to live by.

Gumby, is that a picture of you from, say, 10 or 15 years ago? You know. Back before you FIRE'd.
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