Are post-ER tasks basically a new job?

[Focus]

Good food for thought in this.

The Finance Buff: Early Retirement and Comparative Advantage

It’s different when you retire early. If your retirement budget still requires a lot of your own labor in maintaining and remodeling your home, taking care of your yard, teaching your kids, fixing your car, and so on, you are basically giving up your job early in order to take up the job of a handyman/handywoman, a gardener, an after-school teacher, a car mechanic, etc. Unless you actually enjoy doing those work (teaching your kids can count as enjoyable), chances are you have an absolute disadvantage over the professionals in those jobs, and definitely a comparative disadvantage.

 

[ChainsBeGone]

The author of this article is, in my opinion, over-thinking the issue.

For most of us, we do all of those tasks within our own abilities while working, we just have to cram them into the weekend and those tasks compete with the weekend free time.

I still do all of those tasks now that I'm FIRE'd, I just do them when I feel like it and usually at a much leisurely pace.

 

[REWahoo]

The author of this article is, in my opinion, over-thinking the issue.

For most of us, we do all of those tasks within our own abilities while working, we just have to cram them into the weekend and those tasks compete with the weekend free time.

I still do all of those tasks now that I'm FIRE'd, I just do them when I feel like it and usually at a much leisurely pace.

^ What he said.

I don't do any more of these DIY tasks now that I'm retired, I just do them at a relaxed pace - and with a far better attitude.

 

[Bestwifeever]

"Teaching your kids can count as enjoyable." Take my kids. Please.

 

[REWahoo]

"Teaching your kids can count as enjoyable." Take my kids. Please.

Henny? Is that you?

 

[W2R]

^ What he said.

I don't do any more of these DIY tasks now that I'm retired, I just do them at a relaxed pace - and with a far better attitude.

+1

Life is a lot more fun these days than it was when I was working.

The author doesn't seem to realize that with sufficient funding, one can HIRE a handyman, gardener, auto mechanic, and so on. We don't have to do these things ourselves. The author isn't really talking about retired vs working; he's talking about money vs no money.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Mrs. Henny to you. I guess noone remembers Henny!

 

[Gone4Good]

The author probably just got done visiting Mr. Money Mustache's site where retiring early means trading a day job for endless hours spent squeezing nickles.

That's certainly one version of early retirement. It's not the only version. Or necessarily the best.

 

[Totoro]

Hrm ..

I rent, don't have a yard, no kids, have a young car I don't maintain myself and so on.

Not to mention doing stuff yourself makes oneself a broader person, and comparative advantage is mitigated by all sorts of taxes.

And, obviously, if I have a lot of time I indeed enjoy these things. No time pressure either. I put in a floor for the first time ever when I moved in my current place. Took me three days, and felt empowered by it vs. helpless.

Or, what about this view?

“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”
― Robert A. Heinlein

 

[Hermit]

I am happy to admit that I traded my megacorp job for a job in construction - building my house. I'm glad I'm not doing it for a paycheck. I would probably starve to death. If I didn't like it overall, I guess I would hire someone else to do it. I would add some more comments, but my lunch break is over.

 

[thefinancebuff]

The author doesn't seem to realize that with sufficient funding, one can HIRE a handyman, gardener, auto mechanic, and so on. We don't have to do these things ourselves. The author isn't really talking about retired vs working; he's talking about money vs no money.

The context is laid out in the first two paragraphs. It addresses the suggestion that you achieve early retirement by squeezing down your retirement budget and not having sufficient funding to HIRE a handyman, gardener, auto mechanic, and so on, as advocated by the ERE school.

 

[Walt34]

For most of us, we do all of those tasks within our own abilities while working, we just have to cram them into the weekend and those tasks compete with the weekend free time.

That's pretty much where I am with it although I'm finding that more and more I'm paying to have stuff done that I used to do myself, like oil changes on the car and lawn mowing. We can easily afford stuff like that now and there was a time when I couldn't so it is a bit of a luxury to have those options.

 

[jazz4cash]

As usual, this forum has better perspective on these matters than the media.

I must admit I didn't realize just how many chores were on my to-do list but getting things done on my own schedule makes all the difference.


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[daylatedollarshort]

The author probably just got done visiting Mr. Money Mustache's site where retiring early means trading a day job for endless hours spent squeezing nickles.

That's certainly one version of early retirement. It's not the only version. Or necessarily the best.

That forum has some good ideas, but many of the money saving tasks are pennywise and pound foolish. I have a book called Living Well on Practically Nothing, and even that author says something along the lines of not to do a lot of homesteading kind of tasks simply to save money (unless that is your hobby) as your per hour rate might come out to be 50 cents an hour.

I think that is The Finance Buff's points. I would rather work part-time at what I know if I need extra cash and let an expert mechanic replace my car brakes or an experienced roofer with nimble feet and worker's comp replace my roof. I do some bargain hunting and homesteading kinds of tasks because they are my hobbies. But if I wasn't FI and my main goal was ER I'd work another year doing 1099 tech work.

 

[RunningBum]

The author might as well suggest we grow our own food, and make our own clothes, to afford early retirement. I don't mind making my own toothpaste, but getting it inside a tube is really a time killer!

 

[Walt34]

I don't mind making my own toothpaste, but getting it inside a tube is really a time killer!

Oh, you can save some time on that:

http://www.amazon.com/Toothpaste-Go...2563751&sr=8-3&keywords=fill+toothpaste+tubes

 

[rodi]

I wasn't hiring help prior to ER - why would I do so now? I'll wait till I have limitations in getting the chores done... then hire help.

Actually - I do hire my kids to do some chores like mowing the lawn and emptying the dishwasher.... No free allowance in our house.

 

[Sarah in SC]

I wasn't hiring help prior to ER - why would I do so now? I'll wait till I have limitations in getting the chores done... then hire help.
.

Exactly. We do all our own work. It's just nicer for DH to be able to do it when he wants to, rather than squeezing it into nights and weekends.

 

[LOL!]

Since tfb responded in this thread ... he agreed with what most of you are saying. And I read the article the same way because he did lay out the context.

 

[Music Lover]

I've always believed that people who lack DIY skills and/or do not like doing regular home maintenance should not buy a house unless they have enough money to pay someone to do those things. An apartment or condo is a better fit for those people.

I am someone who enjoys DIY projects and home maintenance...that's why I bought a house. I take pride in building a nice deck or fixing a hole in the drywall. Retirement simply allows me to take care of these things on my schedule.

 

[brewer12345]

I will say that I am way more busy now than when I did a cube job. Part of this is because I have a lot of hobbies (brewing, beekeeping, cooking, foraging, fishing, hunting, camping, hiking, etc.), part of it is because I have two school-age kids, and part of it is because I relish being able to do some things that were always getting crammed in/shorted on time (learning new skills, gathering and processing firewood, volunteering, etc.). My life/schedule seems a lot more complicated now than when the job blotted out most everything else, and sometimes I feel a bit overwhelmed, but it is also a lot more fulfilling than the old grind used to be.

 

[Teacher Terry]

when I worked f.t. I hired cleaners but now I do it myself. It is good exercise. My hubby has mostly done all home repairs but now doesn't have to use up his valuable little time that he would be off of work. We are trying to make our home as maintenance free as possible ( small, one level, astro-turf, new roof/paint, wrought iron fence etc). If it ever gets to be too much we will move to a condo.

 

[petershk]

I used to think this way. That is.. my job pays X, fixing the dishwasher costs X/4 so I should never fix the dishwasher unless I love doing it.

That goes for cutting the lawn, trimming hedges, cleaning the hit tub, washing the car and so on.

The problem I ran into only much later is that this looks at the world through the lens of maximizing monetary economy. That's fine but there's other types of economies.

For example, the experience economy.

I make a pretty good over easy egg sandwich... and my wife loves those. I could buy a better one than I make, so from a pure economic point of view I should do that. I kinda enjoy doing it... but it's not like the hilight of my life. But my wife really loves it when I do it.

The second thing is that there are things that I don't like doing, but after the fact get satisfaction from.

Before fixing the dishwasher it seems like a pain in the ass. I have a job that pays better so I don't have to do that crap. AFTER doing it comes the satisfaction. And the monetary economic optimization prevented me from even being open to the possibility.

So I think it's a bit inverted.

It reminds me a bit of the story of the lord and the poor man.

The lord tells the poor man... "if you just did what the king said you wouldn't have to be poor."
The poor man tells the lord "if you could learn to be satisfied with less you wouldn't have to do what the king says."

I think there is a hidden satisfaction in doing more diverse things you thought you'd hate which can be blocked by optimizing for economic reasons. I think that's also why many people are trapped in dissatisfying jobs and can't seem to get out.

They have the trappings of wealth but live within the prison of little choice... they might be happier with less wealth even if it means a less comfortable life... but if they assume that success always looks like X they may never even try.

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[misshathaway]

My retired life is a tradeoff of time for money. When I was working I didn't have time to maintain my yard up to neighborhood standards so I hired a lawn service. I didn't have the time to find the best deal on any service or many big purchases. Convenience was more important.

It IS its own job for me, especially if you include the minimal side gig and monthly portfolio monitoring. I am continuously surprised at how much stuff I don't want to do still exists in my retired life, but I still prefer this job to the prior one.

 

[FUEGO]

I could buy a better one than I make, so from a pure economic point of view I should do that.

Really? Egg sandwiches are a pretty basic unit of food. Maybe the restaurant version tastes better because they dump more salt on it and smear the bread in butter and then toss it on the griddle?

General comments:

I like to spend the money outsourcing things that I don't enjoy or don't have the skills for.

Take plumbing for example. I don't mind it in small doses when I can handle it. It's just easier to spend a half hour fixing something than spend an hour managing a plumber, verifying the job was done and following up as necessary.

I called a plumber for the first time two days ago. I tried and tried, then sheared a pipe off with my hands (got cut a little), then couldn't get the pipe loose so I gave up and called a plumber before I destroyed something expensive.

While he was out I got a quote for replacing all 3 toilet shut off valves and a leaking valve in the kitchen. $225 for parts and labor and he'll be here in a few minutes. I could probably do these myself for $80-120 in parts and new tools but would spend quite a while figuring out how to do so and I risk getting it wrong and making a bigger mess.

I have periodic major plumbing updates in my long term capital plan for home improvements in my ER budget, so it's no big deal. I'd hate to retire early to a life where I had to do these types of repairs to survive, but enjoy the flexibility to tackle a small job myself.

I don't buy into post-ER chores being a job any more than getting out of bed, lifting the toilet seat, zipping my own pants, or flipping the light switch. All can be outsourced to others (man or machine) but are simply a part of routine life. Mowing the grass, fixing small issues around the house, washing one's own dishes, cooking, etc are all things that we do as part of life that could be outsourced but isn't overly burdensome (at least to this 35 year old early retiree). I suppose I could outsource everything and then go buy a gym membership and spend time there to replace the physical activity loss from cutting out household chores.