Are you figuring in the cost of taking care of an aging parent or spouse?

It's one thing to help someone out if they have put some effort into planning and tried to be responsible and just fell on hard times...it's harder when you have watched someone make bad decisions their whole life and then they expect you to take care of them. That's just so much harder for me to reconcile.
 
I agree. I'm a bit concerned about DS' in-laws. Nice people, hard-working, good grandparents, but I suspect pretty modest means. I hope DS and DDIL don't have to prop them up financially in old age. Right now I'd guess they're in their late 50s and both working.
 
When I put my friend in a home I chose because it was a decent place with good care for half the price then in our town. The only down side is that she is an hour drive away. I also made sure that the home would take Medicaid once her level of care increased. About a year later her rent doubled and she qualified for Medicaid as long as she did not half more then 2k in the bank. Once she ran out of $ the home did not get paid the fulla mount until Medicaid kicked in.
 
Danmar said:
Yes, I can see how it would, especially if you had siblings. I made it very clear to my sibs (and my mother) that I would only pay her expenses once all her assets were gone. Otherwise I would be effectively giving the funds to my sibs. Everybody understood and agreed.
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I have no siblings.
 
For parents it mostly has not been an impact. Dad and FIL both died after short (6 month) cancer battles. Mom had a decline of about 18 months, but since thankfully her mind stayed sound and it was more her body wearing down rather than cancer, we were able to hire a day nurse for that time. With that, Mom living with one of my sisters who was happy to take care of her, and me and 5 other siblings able to step in at various times to help, it was manageable and not that costly, particularly when split 7 ways.

For MIL we have no plans... she is 86 but in very good health, and has money. In fact, enough to have DW's siblings still dependent on her. What will likely play out is that they will fight to take care of her when she declines... with the goal, after she dies, of claiming all of her money and assets are now theirs because they took care of her. That is what played out to some degree with DW's father.
 
I'm conservative in retirement spending compared to what we could spend based on most of the retirement calculators in order to cover our LTC costs or needing to help out relatives in general. I have friends who ended up raising grandchildren for one reason or another, one with early onset Alzheimer's, one couple now both need specialized care of different kinds for age related disabilities, and other friends who have a special needs grandchild who hadn't even been born yet when they retired. I probably won't be able to get a tech job again when I'm 80, so I think it is good to keep a savings buffer for these kinds of situations, since the odds of something big and expensive happening over 40 years are not small.
 
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For us both of our parents have passed away so taking care of them is not an issue anymore. It was for FIL in large part because he did not want to face the reality of growing frail and wanted to stay in his house. We could see it coming and at least persuaded him to go with us to an elder law attorney. He pointed out that a local (to FIL) CCRC was about to open a large new apartment building that had wiped out the waiting list and still had a dozen or so apartments available. He qualified for that in independent living and they admitted him. In this CCRC if you run out of assets they will not kick you out but you have to have enough to private pay for a year or so. He spent one night in the apartment and then DW took him to the emergency room the next day because he was sleeping so much.

It turned out he had very high sugar levels (he was diabetic being treated with drugs) and that had done so much damage he couldn't walk and was then admitted to full nursing care. I was so grateful that my mother had bought into a similar CCRC about eleven years before she passed. She took part in many of the activities and had a great time before she had to move to assisted living, and stayed there for about six months before passing.

We learned the lessons and are currently on a waiting list for a CCRC just over the PA state line. This one also will not kick you out if assets are exhausted. Hopefully neither of us will need assisted living or full nursing care before then. This is one reason we're both going to the gym every other day and go on walks on days when we don't go to the gym.
 
dixonge said:
For us, we'd rather live our final years in Mexico. Amazing care, 3 meals a day, $900-2000/month. That's just in the expat area we prefer. I'm sure there are many areas that would be cheaper. Or other countries, even.
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This is not a bad alternative, but it does have risks. One is the cost of living increases significantly over the next decade, and then stays high. Another is the country just goes all to heck. If anyone thinks this can't happen, our plan was to retire in Venezuela, we already the property where we would live, and had everything in place to move back.

I think spending one's final years abroad, in a low cost of living area, is a good option for some, but you need to have a plan B.
 
your adding to fake news

MichaelB said:
With all due respect, this is one area where laws and such make a big difference, and each state has its own regulatory system. So advice here needs to consider the laws of location and specific circumstances of the OP and should be reinforced with elder care legal advice.
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u cut out my quote that included your statement that criticized mine
 
daylatedollarshort said:
I'm conservative in retirement spending compared to what we could spend based on most of the retirement calculators in order to cover our LTC costs or needing to help out relatives in general...
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+1 We have no specific plans for these costs, but this is the primary reason we're being conservative with spending early on, about 35% below FIRECalc at 95%. We have no LTC insurance for ourselves. But more imminently, the in-laws are both in their mid 80s, poor health, and dwindling assets. They are increasingly reliant on us for nearly everything... driving, coordinating with doctors, managing money, communicating with the lawn guys, taking the correct pills on time, changing light bulbs, setting the thermostat, to name a few.

They started off quite well... retired early-ish (~60) and traveled the world extensively until multiple health issues slowed them down in their late 70s. They now live on SS and withdrawals from his IRA, which is down to about $100K. They downsized to a modest house and have a small life insurance policy for him. But still, if one or both required assisted living or nursing care for any length of time, they would exhaust those assets very quickly.

We've done some cursory research into Medicaid and other forms of financial assistance available in Texas. DW cringes every time I mention Medicaid. I think she just has trouble envisioning her parents as destitute and dependent on government assistance. I think she'd rather just pay the shortfall ourselves along with possible help from her one sibling. For now, we're just playing it by ear and hoping for the best, while being conservative on our own retirement spending, just in case.
 
Being on Medicaid does not mean you will be in a bad place. Both my grandmas were in the same nursing home. One paid her way and one went on Medicaid when her $ ran out.
 
DH is 7 years older than me. I am curious how this works if he needed 24hr care. Do we have to spend down my 401k too before qualifying for Medicaid or just his 401 and joint accounts?
 
TrophyWife said:
It's one thing to help someone out if they have put some effort into planning and tried to be responsible and just fell on hard times...it's harder when you have watched someone make bad decisions their whole life and then they expect you to take care of them. That's just so much harder for me to reconcile.
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Spot on, Trophy Wife. And I will not help people in the second category more than a few bucks here and there. And if they want to abuse me by calling me "lucky" and "greedy" when the reality is that I worked twice as hard as they did all my life and spent less on myself than they did at all times, then they get nothing at all from me.
 
DW's parents had some health issues and went into an assisted living home when their assets were perhaps 120K. They lived for a few years footing the bill on SS and assets, before higher levels of care and time drained the account. They stayed in the same facility for a number of years on medicaid.

If we decided to go into a retirement home some years in the future, we will go to the same place. They have independent living, assisted living, (then a transitional place close to full time nursing but still elements of assisted living, basically an open door assisted living with frequent check-ins), and finally the full time nursing care. Once you are accepted into the system, they will not turn you out. I don't know if they would accept someone with no assets.

In my mind, the key is to transition into a system before you have no options. Unfortunately, some folks will not do that willingly, and thus eventually are in a bad position with few options.
 
nursing home

about 30 years ago i get a call for a dead body in a nursing home ( i was a cop), if i remember correctly is was about 90 % women patients, lined up in wheel chairs in the hallway, the place smelled like dirty diaper, one woman grabbed my hand and said to me "take me home", i said im sorry mom , im not your son,i cant take you home, she said "i know your not my son" but i want to go home, i left that place in tears, i have heard that places have improved, but i will never get that scene out of my head, when my eldest sister suggested we take moms money sign her up to medicaid and wait out the 5 years look back while mom lives with me, i turned to my mom and reminded her about that story that i came home to tell her 30 years prior, she remembered, she told my sister to "tell all the other kids" im staying home, ill hire a private nurse when the money runs out , kill me, . well mom has since sold her house of 57 years, she cries for no reason on certain days its depressing , but she is living in my home with a 24 hour aid, at 1900 a week, i hope she lives long . and happy, and spends every dime on herself.
 
"Take me home" and "'help me" are two haunting images I have and feel so helpless.

I don't know if you can judge a home by the number of "help me's" you hear when you walk-in...but it seems like my grandpa did better at the home where the call-outs were less frequent.

Sad indeed.
 
kgtest said:
"Take me home" and "'help me" are two haunting images I have and feel so helpless.
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We were very happy with the nursing home that FIL was in. Not once did I hear that. But it wasn't cheap. DW was writing checks every month for between $9k and $14k.
 
Walt34 said:
We were very happy with the nursing home that FIL was in. Not once did I hear that. But it wasn't cheap. DW was writing checks every month for between $9k and $14k.
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/

It is a chore to ensure that a loved one is in a "better" facility unless the loved one can afford to private pay or has excellent LTCI.

If the loved one can private pay for an extended period of time (several years), you have a lot of opportunity to shop for what you want. And you have the freedom to move to another place if the first choice doesn't meet expectations fully. That's the real advantage of private pay. Other NH's will send a limo for you if your current residence isn't meeting your expectations.

If the loved one can private pay for a couple of years or so, you'll have limited opportunity to shop for what you want. Many "better" NH's don't have to take folks likely to be on Medicaid eventually and they can be choosy. And it also depends on what percentage Medicaid will have to pay after SS, pensions, etc.

If the loved one needs to be on Medicaid immediately or after just a few months, it's hard to be fussy. In our area, NH's that take Medicaid clients from the get-go often have a bad reputation and perform only to the extent necessary to avoid litigation.

We found a NH here in Illinois for MIL (who private payed for almost two years) we and she all like. The transition from private pay to Medicaid went smoothly and without loss of services. There are very few Medicaid patients at the facility. We visit often, get to know and thank the staff ($$$) and MIL is not very problematic.

Finding a NH and continuing with frequent visits was/is tedious.
 
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There are NO places near me that fall into the category of self pay until funds run out. My mother, just shy of 91, pays for her assisted living facility. About $4000 monthly. Her SS is $900. She has $175,000 left. I plan on applying for VA benefits when she goes below $100,000. It takes a year for them to process. It's also age driven. Older you are less you get. You need to be below $30,000 for aid. All the places by me that are self pay do kick you out if you can't pay. You have to go to a Medicaid accepted facility, and there is a huge difference. At least in my little corner of the world.

Perhaps an appt with an elder attorney is necessary for me. I will look into it.
 
Carol1862 said:
Perhaps an appt with an elder attorney is necessary for me. I will look into it.
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That would be a very good idea. Although pricey the elder law attorney was VERY helpful in navigating the Medicaid maze and we felt his fee was well worth it. There are a lot of "gotcha's". Even someone who thinks they know what the rules are, such as a nursing home staff person, may not and probably does not know all the in's and out's because they only know about the normal day-to-day issues.

I did a lot of reading up on CCRCs when we were dealing with FIL's issues. He was fortunate in getting into the one he did, only because they had just opened a new apartment building that wiped out the normal five-year waiting list.

Some facilities are strictly pay-as-you-go and will ship the person to a Medicaid facility when assets are exhausted. As with Blue Collar Guy, I have seen these and it ain't pretty.

Others require that you show sufficient assets to private pay for full nursing care for a period of time, but then will accept what Medicaid pays. Of course these will be somewhat more costly than a pay-as-you-go facility to make up for those people who do exhaust their assets. The CCRC that my mother was in has the same policy and it was a huge stress reliever.

Here are a few sites that I found by searching for "Continuing Care Retirement Community" while we were looking for a place for FIL:

https://www.seniorhomes.com/p/continuing-care-center/

https://www.medicare.gov/nursinghomecompare/search.html?bhcp=1

https://www.medicare.gov/nursinghomecompare/search.html?bhcp=1

Home - CaringInfo

Retirement Communities & Senior Housing - Retirement Living Information Center

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