Are you happy? According to a Nobel winner...

[Dawg52]

I have not yet personally met anyone who would rather be at work than not.

The few that I have met that would rather work, probably don't have enough to retire anyway. So hard to say, but I'm sure there are plenty who would rather work. There are some fun jobs out there, I just never had one.

 

[scrabbler1]

All I know is I'm happier now retired and living on a budget than while I was w*rking and not having to pay much attention to a budget. For me, it's a tradeoff, but one I'm happy to take.

Agreed. But for me, I still turn a decent surplus when comparing my dividend income to my expenses, so I don't live on a very tight budget (not that the budget is a big one to begin with). I do monitor my budget a little more than I did when I was working, although I did get to practice living on my current retirement budget in the last 17 months I was working because my wage income at that time was about the same as my dividend income is today.

 

[ziggy29]

The few that I have met that would rather work, probably don't have enough to retire anyway. So hard to say, but I'm sure there are plenty who would rather work. There are some fun jobs out there, I just never had one.

These are related. If a job is one which a lot of people would find "fun," they don't have to pay much to get people to do it. So it probably is self-fulfilling that they both (a) enjoy their job and (b) can't afford to retire.

With very few potential exceptions for exceptional talents (sports and entertainment come to mind), show me a job most people would enjoy doing and I'll show you a job that pays like dirt. You simply don't have to pay someone six figures to do something they *want* to do when they wake up every morning. The "demand" for those jobs relative to their limited supply will take care of that.

 

[fritz]

Pretty bold move to publicly put a "specific" price on (financial) happiness. I've always thought happiness was a state of mind unrelated to (any specific) income or net worth level. Many replies here seem to confirm it's not about (how much) money. I personally found:
When: Income > outgo = happiness
When: Savings stream > Income stream = retirement (possible)

 

[Alan]

Pretty bold move to publicly put a "specific" price on (financial) happiness. I've always thought happiness was a state of mind unrelated to (any specific) income or net worth level. Many replies here seem to confirm it's not about (how much) money. I personally found:
When: Income > outgo = happiness
When: Savings stream > Income stream = retirement (possible)

Or as Charles Dickens' character, Mr Micawber puts it:

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."​

By coincidence, $60k / year expenditure is about right for us, but
I very much agree with Mr Micawber (and fritz) .

 

[calmloki]

Or as Charles Dickens' character, Mr Micawber puts it:

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."​

By coincidence, $60k / year expenditure is about right for us, but
I very much agree with Mr Micawber (and fritz) .

Thanks for that quote - was thinking of that but hadn't used the cloud brain to find it!

 

[Meadbh]

Sorry to be picky, but.....Mr. Micawber was discussing cash flow and the study was about income.

 

[Alan]

Sorry to be picky, but.....Mr. Micawber was discussing cash flow and the study was about income.

aye, but many were disputing that an absolute income is not relevant to happiness, and that cash flow is more important.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I think $60K per year would be the sweet spot for most people too--it is enough money to support almost any lifestyle less than country-club living.

But isn't it funny to look back at ourselves starting out, making hardly any money, and remember that time as the best days of our lives....

 

[easysurfer]

I think $60K per year would be the sweet spot for most people too--it is enough money to support almost any lifestyle less than country-club living.

But isn't it funny to look back at ourselves starting out, making hardly any money, and remember that time as the best days of our lives....

How very true. I do that sometimes. Look back and remind myself of a time before all these things and remember, I did it before and was happy then.

Reminds me of an old song...

JOHN CONLEE - COMMON MAN LYRICS

 

[bbbamI]

Are you happy?

Yes. However our retirement 'income' is less than $60k a year.

Maybe I should play down my giddiness every once in a while.


Ahhhh screw it.....

 

[ESRwannabe]

If I had a house paid for, then around $20k a year would probably max me out happiness wise. I basically buy everything I want right now and spent around $33k last year with about 60% of that being taxes and rent.

 

[Tesaje]

I think $60K per year would be the sweet spot for most people too--it is enough money to support almost any lifestyle less than country-club living.

But isn't it funny to look back at ourselves starting out, making hardly any money, and remember that time as the best days of our lives....

Not so for me. I think my best & happiest years are right now. I wouldn't go back to callow youth for anything.

60k seems a reasonable figure on average. A bit more than the average salary should translate into comfortable. I heard of a study that found people get a lot happier in their 50s. I'm part of that too.
I'm definitely happier when my outgo is a comfortable margin below my income.

 

[ksr]

All I know is I'm happier now retired and living on a budget than while I was w*rking and not having to pay much attention to a budget. For me, it's a tradeoff, but one I'm happy to take.

Ditto. When I was still working, there was nothing I could think of that I wanted, that I was willing to work longer to attain. And now that I've left megacorp, there's nothing I want enough to make me go back.

 

[W2R]

\But isn't it funny to look back at ourselves starting out, making hardly any money, and remember that time as the best days of our lives....

Not me! I remember those days, and they were good. It was nice to have a young, supple, capable body and a long future with so much of life's potential ahead of me, true. But you know, I have to admit that really the best days of my life are right NOW....

 

[Bestwifeever]

Yeah, I should have said "some of" the best days of our lives--I have always said the best time of my life is now . But the times we had nothing turned out to be pretty damned good too.

 

[bbbamI]

Shoot...in 1975 I was making $2.20 an hour. I had it made!

Man...I sure had some fun back in the daze....and I'm still able to let loose a chortle or two now....

 

[traineeinvestor]

I was happy at work for many years . It was only at the end that I got burned out and that was after forty years .

Ditto. It was challenging in a good way for a number of years then I progressively became burned out and bored. I've done 20+ years. There is no way that I want to do 30 years - no matter how good the money is.

 

[Walt34]

I need what I need, and I don't care what the other people around me have as long as it isn't at my expense. I became a lot happier when I stopped worrying about keeping up with the Joneses and decided to ease up and let them win.

Yes, yes, yes!

When we moved to WV I couldn't wait to get the WV tags on my 18-year-old pickup truck and send photos to the family. It looked like a stereotypical WV pickup - 4WD, peeling paint, rusted roof, hood, and some rust on the sides, but the mechanics all worked fine. I only bought a new one because parts availability was getting problematic. We had planned the purchase years before.

In contrast, one BIL has a Spendarina wife and will be a slave to the credit industry for what appears to be the foreseeable future. Poor guy.

 

[Hershey102]

. . . But you know, I have to admit that really the best days of my life are right NOW....

Just like my fishing buddy, a border collie named Taffy, I am now living in the moment and relishing it. Until I retired at 52, the serial saver mentality caused me to miss some of these moments. I have known many men who worked simply because it had become their identity. Along the way some had neglected to develop balance in their interests. Others ended up chasing power or money, neither of which will help you put a bass on the business end of a rod in the quietude of a spring morning. Never been happier.

 

[rescueme]

But isn't it funny to look back at ourselves starting out, making hardly any money, and remember that time as the best days of our lives....

Those days sucked, both from a financial and emotional sense ..

But again, I'm only talking about my situation (from birth till my early 30's).

Being in my 60's, retired, and feeling that these are the "best days" of my life, I would never want to trade them for what was the first half of my life...

But then again, everybody's life is different.

 

[Danmar]

These are related. If a job is one which a lot of people would find "fun," they don't have to pay much to get people to do it. So it probably is self-fulfilling that they both (a) enjoy their job and (b) can't afford to retire.

With very few potential exceptions for exceptional talents (sports and entertainment come to mind), show me a job most people would enjoy doing and I'll show you a job that pays like dirt. You simply don't have to pay someone six figures to do something they *want* to do when they wake up every morning. The "demand" for those jobs relative to their limited supply will take care of that.

Perhaps you are right to a degree but I had a job (not in entertainment or sports) that paid very well (mid seven figures) and I loved it for a long time. Eventually the pressure got to me and I retired early. The enjoyment came from a number of sources I think: the power I had, prestige, untellectual challenge, and knowing how much money I was making. I know this isn't the norm but may be interesting nevertheless.

 

[Rambler]

We could survive on 60k, but I wonder if we would be happy. 60k is my barebones survival ER budget, which includes little to no fun, and a lot of scrimping. Heck, nearly half of the 60k would go to property tax and insurance, and health insurance and deductibles. We would have to sell our dream home to be able to stay consistently that low and still say we were enjoying it. So long as we keep the place (and the accompanying tax and insurance bills) we will be comfortable and happy at about 100k after tax. Add a travel trailer to the mix and we get to about 110-115k...make that a nicer RV and we climb up yet again to maybe 135k. So, it all depends on what kind of lifestyle you want and are accustomed to living.

That said, we were quite happy 26 years ago as newlyweds making $4.25 an hour for a total of 50-60 hours a week between us and going to school. (we ate a lot of mac n cheese n wieners back in those days, but there were certain, ahem, other aspects that made life real enjoyable).

R

 

[haha]

Did many listen to Kahneman's video? Because the message is actually quite a bit more complex than this $60,000 idea, which on the face of it is highly doubtful. What do you think that would buy in NYC? I wonder when was the last time Daniel Kahneman lived on $60,000?

$60,000 would not qualify me for a mortgage on any SFH in a non-slum area in Seattle, and it might not even do it in the slums.

To me at least, the main point of his talk was that there are two separate types of happiness, experiencing, and remembering. Experiencing happiness is what occurs in the moment. It is sensate. "Remembering happiness" is a more complex construction of the meaning and the perceived track of one's life. It is more sensitive to income, showing no flatline as was posited for "experiencing happiness".

Ha

 

[walkinwood]

The $60 K number didn't do anything for me. It is a result of a poll of 600,000 people and there are bound to be exceptions. He says that they didn't expect to find the number.

I found the separation of the "experiencing self" and the "remembering self", and the concept of "focussing illusion" to be very interesting and can see them at play in my own life.

I found this article that also looks at the connection of income & happiness
Link between income and happiness is mainly an illusion

From the article

"Despite the weak relationship between income and global life satisfaction or experienced happiness, many people are highly motivated to increase their income," the study said. "In some cases, this focusing illusion may lead to a misallocation of time, from accepting lengthy commutes (which are among the worst moments of the day) to sacrificing time spent socializing (which are among the best moments of the day)."