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03-14-2019, 05:37 AM
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#101
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,585
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People everywhere complain, it’s one of the things that distinguish us from lower life forms.
A century from now, when we have colonies on other planets, someone will say “Planet X is a great place to live, but there’s too many people, too much traffic and the taxes are too high”.
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03-14-2019, 05:45 AM
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#102
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeea
So progressive taxes are out. Because the wise take a different route home.
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Growing up we had neighbors who only half-jokingly claimed to be 'tax exiles' from the UK. They literally 'took a different route' to avoid the high UK taxes of the late '60's.
IIRC, France had to recently rethink their millionaire tax due to an exodus of wealth.
I posted earlier about a CNN segment last week that showed how a few states are seeing a notable drop in their tax revenue as the wealthy are taking their residences elsewhere. They claim that Mass is down 50% (which I find a bit surprising).
The point, I think, is that most tax projections view everything as static without taking into consideration how money can walk "a different route home" and those most affected have the most options to do so.
__________________
Living well is the best revenge!
Retired @ 52 in 2005
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03-14-2019, 06:13 AM
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#103
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: The Great Wide Open
Posts: 3,789
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Here is a map/calculator showing the migration due to taxes, down to the county level
https://www.howmoneywalks.com/irs-tax-migration/
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03-14-2019, 06:33 AM
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#104
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winemaker
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Interesting map. However, I don’t think it is necessarily correct to call it migration *due* to taxes. It’s really a map of migration *measured* by taxes.
If you drill down to the specifics for the states in the Northeast, they all lost the most taxable income to Florida and other southern states. I don’t believe that income tax / taxes in general was the sole reason, and probably not the most pressing reason. I think getting out of the cold winters was a major reason for wealthy (likely older) residents moving south.
Pennsylvania is a good illustration of the pull of warmer weather. PA has income tax laws that should be very attractive to retirees, as there is no state income tax on Social Security or 1099R income. Yet according to the map, there is an exodus of wealth to southern states.
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03-14-2019, 06:58 AM
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#105
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Punta Gorda, FL
Posts: 828
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We left Missouri and moved to Florida. We moved because of the weather, no State tax or personal property taxes was a plus. But our real estate tax is higher, but our home down here is also worth more. Overall probably not paying much different overall.
Traffic and crowding is bad from January to April, and July and August we tend to go north for vacations.
Lots of building has been going on since I moved down 5 years ago.
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03-14-2019, 11:06 AM
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#106
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 953
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We have purchased a place in Arizona. Primary reason- escape the cold winters, snow, and ice. I have also looked at 'would there be tax benefits to changing residence'? What I found was that there could be some savings, but it was not significant. Basically, if you start out in the middle of the pack, there is not a large amount to be saved going somewhere else. There are a few specific examples where it would be beneficial to be a resident of South Dakota, but the dollar savings does not create enough benefit to counteract the costs of moving away from family and the costs of relocating.
In contrast, we will not be relocating to a higher cost state because of the increase in taxes as well as the trends that we see in their government and their politics. In similar fashion, I have friends who have moved out of certain states with higher tax burdens, but the primary reason was the politics and looming economic challenges. They were more concerned about the impact on real estate prices than what their tax burden based on retirement income might be.
A number of people relocate after retirement to get to better weather, to move closer to children, or to get into a different tax environment. To say that folks are fleeing NY state because of the taxes is not accurate. But to say that it is not a factor is also not accurate.
__________________
Well it's all right, we're heading to the end of the line...
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03-14-2019, 11:10 AM
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#107
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Tampa
Posts: 11,230
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We moved to FLA from the NY Metro area due to lower COL, weather. As simple as that.
__________________
TGIM
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03-14-2019, 11:28 AM
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#108
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Miraflores,Peru
Posts: 1,992
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I left NYC for love! Climate/Opportunity/Cuisine/QOL/COL and taxes were all gravy.
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03-14-2019, 11:36 AM
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#109
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,952
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I have to drag in my favorite winter city of ST. George, Utah. Apparently they get a lot of California retired relocations.
Sevices and roads seem to be excellent. One of the keys here is they are not short of land in any way. The developer grabs a large acreage of desert scrub pays all the impact fees and taxes and the city gets all new residents and more houses to tax. Of course some day they might have a water shortage, but so far things are developing nicely.
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03-14-2019, 11:38 AM
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#110
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivinsfan
IApparently they get a lot of California retired relocations.
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Follow the housing prices that are getting out of control, and you'll usually see a bunch of Californians coming into the market.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
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03-14-2019, 11:40 AM
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#111
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29
Follow the housing prices that are getting out of control, and you'll usually see a bunch of Californians coming into the market.
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Yes SGU isn't that far from Cali and retired people with any equity in the Cali home come out pretty well when buying there.
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03-14-2019, 12:19 PM
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#112
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upstate
Posts: 2,948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeea
How cute. That must have been a laugh riot.
Your class must have been a lot of fun. What was the subject? Did you have tenure? Was it a private or a public school?
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I decided not to post what I first was going to reply to you out of respect for this forum.
So the modified version is simply that I don't find your post to be one that promotes courteous discourse.
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03-14-2019, 12:35 PM
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#113
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29
Follow the housing prices that are getting out of control, and you'll usually see a bunch of Californians coming into the market.
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We're seeing some of that in and around Austin, TX, mostly with the spikes in property taxes. Long-time Texan homeowners living on moderate wages or retired income are getting shell-shocked with their property tax costs. Not sure how much of that is directly related to Californians moving to the state or Texas itself attracting a lot of businesses from other states looking to relocate. Probably some of both.
Speaking as Californians who moved to a suburb of Austin last year to follow our only child who moved to Austin three years ago, we have to walk on eggshells around long-time Texans. We keep our financial health out of conversations. It would just make matters worse.
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03-14-2019, 12:40 PM
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#114
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: charlotte
Posts: 42
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I lived in NY for almost 20 years, then moved to PA, then NC. I contributed near the max allowed in 401k every year in NY - free of NY state tax, which was then 8.7%. I remember when the NY atty Gen sued florida to MAKE them collect NY state taxes on those who retired and moved to FLA. IT's a great way to make 8.7% on your $$$$!!!!
That said, i do agree that people from high tax states get used to the "goodies" , then move south and complain they dont have the nice state provided stuff anymore. Hence, the plan of mine to move out of NC when i retire- taxes are NOT really low, and they will only get higher as more northerner infect the area- myself not included of course.
PS the NY ATTY GEn lost the lawsuit.
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03-14-2019, 12:43 PM
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#115
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Elyria, OH
Posts: 1,937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copyright1997reloaded
I decided not to post what I first was going to reply to you out of respect for this forum.
So the modified version is simply that I don't find your post to be one that promotes courteous discourse.
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I didn't take joeea's comments as necessarily being rude. They might have been sincere. Or maybe it went over my head.
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03-14-2019, 03:03 PM
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#116
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upstate
Posts: 2,948
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Well, I took "How cute. That must have been a laugh riot." and "Your class must have been a lot of fun" as sarcastic statements about my teaching ability, followed by "What was the subject? Did you have tenure? Was it a private or a public school?"
But, perhaps you are correct, and it was meant to be sincere. If so, I apologize for misreading it.
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03-14-2019, 03:17 PM
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#117
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gone traveling
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marko
They claim that Mass is down 50% (which I find a bit surprising).
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"down 50%" means nothing without context. Down since when?
Seems unlikely. Perhaps you have a link to the source of that claim?
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03-14-2019, 03:19 PM
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#118
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gone traveling
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copyright1997reloaded
I decided not to post what I first was going to reply to you out of respect for this forum.
So the modified version is simply that I don't find your post to be one that promotes courteous discourse.
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Okay. You were clearly trying to make some sort of point to your class. I was trying to find out why/how/to what end and if the point was relevant to what you were teaching.
But you can just ignore it if you choose. There was indeed some sarcasm in my question, as there was in your "play a little game with my college classes" reply.
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03-14-2019, 03:42 PM
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#119
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29
Me too, as long as it doesn't become harassment or too much of an invasion of privacy.
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Sometimes the public gets what it asks for. Folks who try to game the system by having a modest home or rental in a low tax state and claiming residence there while maintaining their real residence in a high tax state are the ones causing the problem. Perhaps the answer for the state governments would be to avoid any tactics that could be considered "harassment" and instead really, really nail a few scofflaws when caught to spread a little fear......
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
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03-14-2019, 03:47 PM
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#120
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by statsman
We're seeing some of that in and around Austin, TX, mostly with the spikes in property taxes. Long-time Texan homeowners living on moderate wages or retired income are getting shell-shocked with their property tax costs. Not sure how much of that is directly related to Californians moving to the state or Texas itself attracting a lot of businesses from other states looking to relocate. Probably some of both.
Speaking as Californians who moved to a suburb of Austin last year to follow our only child who moved to Austin three years ago, we have to walk on eggshells around long-time Texans. We keep our financial health out of conversations. It would just make matters worse.
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Travis county (Austin) and adjoining Williamson county (Round Rock, Cedar Park, Georgetown - which includes Sun City, one of the largest enclaves of Californians outside the Golden State) are among the top five highest property tax counties in Texas. My BIL and his wife live near Georgetown and speak frequently about the californication emanating from Sun City. You may have heard some things recently about the city government in Georgetown, like this Forbes article:
Texas Taxpayers Pay The French Government For Wind Power And Then Pay The Grid To Take It
Statsman, I think your low profile approach to your former state residence is a wise strategy.
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Numbers is hard
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