Article on NY audits of Florida tax refugees

[Kroeran]

Tax collectors chase rich New Yorkers moving to low-tax states. Auditors inspect cell records, even your dog's vet bills

Robert Frank | @robtfrank
Published 12 Hours Ago Updated 8 Hours Ago
CNBC.com

New York conducted about 3,000 "non-residency" audits a year between 2010 and 2017, collecting around $1 billion, according to a data company.
New York is looking at cellphone records, social media feeds, and veterinary and dentist records in verifying residency.
Auditors are even conducting in-home inspections to look inside taxpayers' refrigerators.

[mod edit to ensure copyright compliance, full article here https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/08/tax-collectors-chase-rich-new-yorkers-moving-to-low-tax-states.html ]

 

[joeea]

So a state is being aggressive about collecting taxes that are owed.

I'm okay with that.

 

[MarieIG]

My DH was reading about this to me on the phone.

Our governor was howling on the news about the loss of income tax revenue from the rich leaving NY. It is good reading for the new outflux of NY expats.

We are New Yorkers and part of our plan is to leave NY after retirement. It is my home, but the taxes and COL on LI are too high and DH is totally fed-up (although certainly our income tax will drop dramatically when we are no longer employed.)

I still have sons living on Long Island, but this type of article makes me nervous about keeping the family home for them to live in.

 

[CRLLS]

Any legal method that a state uses to find these tax scofflaws is valid. There should also be a penalty on those who intended to defraud. However, there may be bit of privacy invasion at foot. The article doesn't say if NY state had received a warrant for their investigative actions.

 

[DektolMan]

My friends friend who is wealthy and has a home in Florida and one in NY. He spends 6 months and a day in Florida and everyday he makes sure he makes a purchase on his CC. It could be gas, a pack of gum, dinner etc.


He is audited each year but has the records to prove he is a resident of Florida.

 

[Kroeran]

Know the laws and follow the laws with a margin for error .

The deep state wakes up every morning very and increasingly hungry.

 

[dtbach]

Know the laws and follow the laws with a margin for error .

The deep state wakes up every morning very and increasingly hungry.

paranoid much?

 

[JoeWras]

If you leave NY and go to a different state based on taxes, please remember that was your reason. It also means the state you move to may have a different level of services. Remember the taxes when calling for an increase in services.

 

[MichaelB]

I was audited by NY State at least 6 times, both residency and non-residency, during the 90’s and early aughts, and I never had anything close to the income levels in this article. Four of those audits were handled by PWC when I was under a tax equalization plan. NY State collected in only one, it was less than $500, and it was from returns prepared by PWC.

It doesn’t look like anything has changed, and this is certainly nothing new. People in NY have been looking for ways to minimize / avoid / evade their taxes since 1788 and NY State has spent just as long tracking them down. It’s a full employment policy for tax attorneys and accountants.

 

[MarieIG]

If you leave NY and go to a different state based on taxes, please remember that was your reason. It also means the state you move to may have a different level of services. Remember the taxes when calling for an increase in services.

I am very familiar with what I get/ do not get in the way of services. The pros that I see for my current location are that we would get a quick police and ambulance response. My nearest hospital is not the best; although for complicated procedures, we have access to NYC. I do not expect any of my healthcare to be funded vis-à-vis location in NY.

My concern about leaving NY /LI - is being homesick. My husband immigrated to the US as an adult, and has no such concern.

 

[cooch96]

paranoid much?

It’s not paranoia if the taxman really is out to get you.

 

[Dd852]

I was audited by New York when we were living in Hong Kong, but had kept our New York apartment (rented out). They actually sent an inspector to interview the building’s doormen about how often they’d seen us around! We were truly gone and the audit agreed (phew) but it was not a trivial process. My advice to anyone leaving “sticky” states (California is another one) is don’t even think about playing close to the rules - be clean by a good margin. And keep careful records backed up by things like credit card receipts about where you spend your time.

 

[ivinsfan]

paranoid much?

I think it's called prudence, not much different then making sure you don't go over the ACA income cliff. The punishment can be severe...

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

If you leave NY and go to a different state based on taxes, please remember that was your reason. It also means the state you move to may have a different level of services. Remember the taxes when calling for an increase in services.

Yep. I have friends that moved from MD to FL to retire, and now like to poke fun about Maryland's high tax rates. But then when they complain about the state of their roads and infrastructure and public services, I be sure to take the opportunity to remind them that I *chose* to live in one of the counties in MD with the highest local tax rate. That is why I can fill out an online form about a pothole or even faded lane markings and it will be fixed a week or two later! Dealing with permitting and the courts here have been really easy for me, and the local schools are excellent. (I also can't stand the climate in Florida, but that's a completely different thread...)

 

[MarieIG]

Yep. I have friends that moved from MD to FL to retire, and now like to poke fun about Maryland's high tax rates. But then when they complain about the state of their roads and infrastructure and public services, I be sure to take the opportunity to remind them that I *chose* to live in one of the counties in MD with the highest local tax rate. That is why I can fill out an online form about a pothole or even faded lane markings and it will be fixed a week or two later! Dealing with permitting and the courts here have been really easy for me, and the local schools are excellent. (I also can't stand the climate in Florida, but that's a completely different thread...)

MD has some beautiful areas.

Notwithstanding my high tax rate, my teeth were almost knocked out last week by driving through potholes. There is constant construction, but they never seem to catch up with the potholes. Our commutes and public transportation are nothing to brag about.

Local schools have high ratings, but very expensive taxwise, and I don't need them.

Local Courts, well, I am somewhat familiar with those considering what I do for a living. Too much to even go into.

I like my local neighborhood.

Florida weather. DH has put nix on Florida due to the weather.

It is a balancing act.

 

[ziggy29]

So a state is being aggressive about collecting taxes that are owed.

I'm okay with that.

Me too, as long as it doesn't become harassment or too much of an invasion of privacy.

 

[medved]

The part of this that bothers me is the "subjective" element. If the law says I need to live in FL for at least 183 days per year, and be able to prove it, fine -- i can do that. And if I cheat, then I deserve what I get. But if they say some New York bureaucrat in a brown polyester suit (or whatever) is going to make a "subjective judgment" about "where my heart is," I don't love that. Give me a rule or a set of rules and I can follow them....

 

[Luck_Club]

"We call it the golden ticket," Klein said. "The goal of a residency audit is to get the golden ticket of written confirmation from New York that you are no longer a resident. We have seen some auditors who say, 'Look, this is an ambiguous case, but if you come up with X dollars, then we can see the change of domicile.'"

Shakedown pure and simple.

 

[sengsational]

Re: Buying something with your CC in Florida for 183 consecutive days?


I thought that you just couldn't set for in the "sticky" state for more than about 180 days. For someone who travels, that makes a difference.


If you spent 5 months in NY, 4 months in FL and 3 months in Europe and you had all the requisite stuff moved to Florida beforehand, you'd be ok, yes?

 

[Stormy Kromer]

Move to Minnesota. Your former state of residence will NEVER question your tax liabilities...MN would send them a bill.

 

[kjpliny]

I am very familiar with what I get/ do not get in the way of services. The pros that I see for my current location are that we would get a quick police and ambulance response. My nearest hospital is not the best; although for complicated procedures, we have access to NYC. I do not expect any of my healthcare to be funded vis-à-vis location in NY.

My concern about leaving NY /LI - is being homesick. My husband immigrated to the US as an adult, and has no such concern.

We'll be leaving NY in about 5 years after we stop working. My biggest fear is not being able to find exceptional food. Can't beat NY pizza, bagels, Italian food and upscale steak houses.

 

[MichaelB]

Re: Buying something with your CC in Florida for 183 consecutive days?


I thought that you just couldn't set for in the "sticky" state for more than about 180 days. For someone who travels, that makes a difference.


If you spent 5 months in NY, 4 months in FL and 3 months in Europe and you had all the requisite stuff moved to Florida beforehand, you'd be ok, yes?

In my NY state audits, credit card receipts were not allowed as proof of location. Neither were expense account submissions. They requested airline boarding passes, passport stamps, hotel invoices, and similar proof, including my daily planner. All original.

For NY State the number of days spent elsewhere does not determine residency. It does affect the state income tax liability because for a resident a day worked out of state can be treated as income not subject to NY state taxation.

Residency in NY is not defined by law or regulation. It is defined by intent and circumstance, and precedent matters. It is not a function of days spent present in the state. A dentist, physician or attorney whose practice is in NYC won’t be able to establish non-residency regardless of how many days are spent in Florida.

 

[Dtail]

We'll be leaving NY in about 5 years after we stop working. My biggest fear is not being able to find exceptional food. Can't beat NY pizza, bagels, Italian food and upscale steak houses.

Down in Tampa unfortunately the above is mainly true, although there are exceptions to some extent.

 

[pb4uski]

Re: Buying something with your CC in Florida for 183 consecutive days?


I thought that you just couldn't set for in the "sticky" state for more than about 180 days. For someone who travels, that makes a difference.


If you spent 5 months in NY, 4 months in FL and 3 months in Europe and you had all the requisite stuff moved to Florida beforehand, you'd be ok, yes?

Yes... and by requisite stuff I assume that you mean driver's license, car registrations, voting, homestead, banking, investments, etc. IOW, divorce yourself from the sticky state as much as possible. At that point you just need to prove that you are a resident of your new state and did not spend 183 days in the sticky state (consecutive or not).

 

[pb4uski]

.... Residency in NY is not defined by law or regulation. It is defined by intent and circumstance, and precedent matters. It is not a function of days spent present in the state. A dentist, physician or attorney whose practice is in NYC won’t be able to establish non-residency regardless of how many days are spent in Florida.

But let's say that I was one of those professionals that you mention, my practice was still in NY but I was fully retired... other partners were running the business but I still had a financial interest in the business and was receiving income from the business.... and I had all the requisite things covered and didn't step foot in NYS all year

I can see that any income from the practice would be taxable on a non-resident return, but only the NY income, all other income would be tax in the state of residency. That is the way it works for my mom... she is a FL resident but has an income producing property in a high tax state and files a non-resident return to pay state tax on that income, but none of her other income is subject to state tax.