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Old 06-06-2017, 05:58 PM   #61
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I never really thought about it this way, but after 12 years of RE, including the '08 crash, my NW is almost exactly double from what I started with. (How'd that happen??!!)

And I only started taking SS 3 years ago.
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:59 PM   #62
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It really depends on your retirement income stream. Mine is rental real estate dependent. As such my retirement date is very dependent upon debt depletion and a cross over point.

If I play my cards correctly, my net worth at death will be many times my starting point because of the following assumptions:
1) SS will create a larger surplus which will be diverted to additional investments.
2) MRD will further add to un-needed income, and that will go to further investments.
3) Spending will greatly diminish in my 70's as feebleness starts to kick in.

As an aside the tough part will be convincing the wife it will be OK to leave her job before a "socially acceptable age". Been running a 1 year cash flow experiment, and 6 months in we are green!
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Old 06-06-2017, 07:36 PM   #63
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Entirely possible and even likely given the strong markets since 2009. Depending on your asset mix and as long as you have a reasonable WR you will almost certainly have more now than in 2009. I retired in 2006 ( a particularly bad time) but even then have a lot more now than when I started. Have started to "up the spending a bit" to prevent being the "the richest guy in the graveyard". Even then I suspect we will never deplete the portfolio much below its current level.


Danmar, did you do anything differently in 2008-9 to preserve assets? Just curious as we are recent ER's and the market has been good to us so far but that could easily change in the next few years.
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:33 PM   #64
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It really depends on your retirement income stream. Mine is rental real estate dependent. As such my retirement date is very dependent upon debt depletion and a cross over point.

If I play my cards correctly, my net worth at death will be many times my starting point because of the following assumptions:
1) SS will create a larger surplus which will be diverted to additional investments.
2) MRD will further add to un-needed income, and that will go to further investments.
3) Spending will greatly diminish in my 70's as feebleness starts to kick in.

As an aside the tough part will be convincing the wife it will be OK to leave her job before a "socially acceptable age". Been running a 1 year cash flow experiment, and 6 months in we are green!
i like to hear about the "cash flow experiment".... may be it's a crucial data to know before pulling the plug or might even give me some idea if my nw decrease or increase after retirement
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:37 PM   #65
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You probably should have turned the question around and asked if anyone had a smaller nestegg than when they retired!
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Old 06-07-2017, 12:26 AM   #66
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You probably should have turned the question around and asked if anyone had a smaller nestegg than when they retired!
IIRC we have had a couple of folks admit to having to go back to w*rk because their plan did not meet their needs in FIRE. Since most of us started with the assumptions of FIRECalc, it seems logical that most of us have done reasonably well during the 8 years or so since the great recession. That period alone should have made most of us better off than before if we followed the general guidelines (reasonable portfolio AA and WDR.) Naturally, things can happen, so YMMV.
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Old 06-07-2017, 02:47 AM   #67
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Enuff, would you be surprised if someone on SS retirement with no debt in a LCOL area lived only on that income while their 401-k stash grew? Plenty of people do it and it is the same principal. Also, if you own rental property, and you live on the rental income, but never sell the properties, your net worth would continue to grow over the years. Or if you took only dividends out of your retirement savings, and left the principal alone.
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Old 06-07-2017, 07:15 AM   #68
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Danmar, did you do anything differently in 2008-9 to preserve assets? Just curious as we are recent ER's and the market has been good to us so far but that could easily change in the next few years.
My experience during the 2008 recession was extreme. I had multi million dollar margin loans and large amounts of employee options that all went under water. I didn't do much other than to ensure enough liquidity to ride out the storm. Luckily my cash balances were very high and I supplemented that by putting some HELOC's on some property. Everything worked out fine and much sooner than I thought.

Since then my financial position is very much less risky. No debt. Live off divs and pension. Almost seems boring, but in a good way. All you can do is have an asset allocation that reflects your risk tolerance. My risk tolerance is quite high but nothing like 2008/09.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:59 AM   #69
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My experience during the 2008 recession was extreme. I had multi million dollar margin loans and large amounts of employee options that all went under water. I didn't do much other than to ensure enough liquidity to ride out the storm. Luckily my cash balances were very high and I supplemented that by putting some HELOC's on some property. Everything worked out fine and much sooner than I thought.
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:46 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Danmar View Post
My experience during the 2008 recession was extreme. I had multi million dollar margin loans and large amounts of employee options that all went under water. I didn't do much other than to ensure enough liquidity to ride out the storm. Luckily my cash balances were very high and I supplemented that by putting some HELOC's on some property. Everything worked out fine and much sooner than I thought.
Ironically, I reduced my equIty exposure by buying property in Mexico for cash in December 2007 when the C$ was at 1.065 US so even though some softness ensued, it was more than compensated by the FX gains. FX gains alone are 44%!

So even though I made out like a bandit, it was not any investing acumen! Although when I describe it now, I let the listener conclude that!
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Old 06-07-2017, 01:37 PM   #71
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Living off one pension so far with another small one to come in 2025. Don't plan to touch 401ks until required by age so our assets are still growing. If SS is around when we reach FRA our income will be nearly 3X what it is now. LBYM and paying off debt long before we retired worked for us.
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Old 06-07-2017, 02:37 PM   #72
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That's exactly how I looked during that period.
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:10 PM   #73
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my point exactly.... Assets will likely to increase if you retire with a "nice nest egg". Many people in the real world DON'T.

thus it is not typical to see John Doe next door neighbor is in this category
You disguised your point extremely well in your original post.
That's an understatement!

How the heck did the OP go from:

Quote:
Are you retired? I saw a friend whom retired 3-4 years ago. To my surprise, he told me that his assets actually INCREASED since he retired.

why? how? I don't believe it. Those was my initial thoughts. It turns out that he didn't touch his 401k and the market did well the last 3 years. He lived on pension and withdraw small amount from his saving...

Wow... is it really possible?
to...
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Assets will likely to increase if you retire with a "nice nest egg".


Maybe Enuff2Eat's account has been hacked? Sounds like two different people to me!

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Old 06-07-2017, 05:46 PM   #74
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Stocks have done well the last three years. If you withdraw 4% but your investments grow by a bigger margin your portfolio should grow. As others have noted, down markets will occur.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:29 PM   #75
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Enuff, would you be surprised if someone on SS retirement with no debt in a LCOL area lived only on that income while their 401-k stash grew? Plenty of people do it and it is the same principal. Also, if you own rental property, and you live on the rental income, but never sell the properties, your net worth would continue to grow over the years. Or if you took only dividends out of your retirement savings, and left the principal alone.
"plenty of people do it"... i m not so sure about that. it's nice that someone don't really need to touch the 401k and let it grows.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:35 PM   #76
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Wow... is it really possible?
Yes, if your pension/ss covers most of your expenses and your asset withdrawal rate is less than its return rate your assets will grow.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:57 PM   #77
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Retired @ age 53, in 1989... no pension, minimum (tiny) stock market investments, and our dollar assets are almost exactly what they were when we retired.

Though we don't use any retirement calculators and don't use or figure on Safe Withdrawal Rates our system works essentially the same way, except that it uses actual dollars, and we plan each year on a simple calculation to decide what we can spend. Assets aren't growing, but they've stayed pretty steady over the past 28 years. We DO use our Social Security

Not very much money, but it looks like we may be good 'til we reach age 92 in 11 more years and that includes a few years of nursing home care, if necessary.

Don't feel that we lost a lot over the years in terms of enjoying life.

http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...ent-62251.html
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:35 PM   #78
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Like several others this month marks the end of three years of ER for me. It sure has gone by quickly and despite drawing exclusively from my portfolio it's still up 10%. Would be even more if 2015 hadn't been an essentially flat year.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:26 PM   #79
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My experience during the 2008 recession was extreme. I had multi million dollar margin loans and large amounts of employee options that all went under water. I didn't do much other than to ensure enough liquidity to ride out the storm. Luckily my cash balances were very high and I supplemented that by putting some HELOC's on some property. Everything worked out fine and much sooner than I thought.



Since then my financial position is very much less risky. No debt. Live off divs and pension. Almost seems boring, but in a good way. All you can do is have an asset allocation that reflects your risk tolerance. My risk tolerance is quite high but nothing like 2008/09.


Thanks for the insight. We had a lot more debt back then too - owned 3 properties in So CA. Decided to sell all but our primary residence. We were able to live off our W-2 incomes and buy low through our 401K's, but did not have a stockpile of cash as we were 100% equities. Since then we've dramatically reduced debt and now hold more cash/short term bonds so that we have some "dry powder" to use to avoid having to sell investments at depressed values and to capitalize on opportunities. Hopefully this approach will serve us well when the next downturn occurs. Thanks for sharing your experience.
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Old 06-11-2017, 10:41 AM   #80
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Since retiring in October 2012, our investable assets are up over 40% after cumulative withdrawals of 13% of beginning balance.
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