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Old 06-03-2017, 04:29 PM   #21
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This is it in a nutshell for us, too.
At some point the interest in travel and hobbies will begin to diminish, freeing up a substantial chunk of our budget.

At another point, the possibility of assisted living, etc. may rear its ugly head, and that will take the place of the travel and hobby spending.
What we are seeing is the travel and hobby spending is declining at a similar rate that the medical spending (prior to assisted living spending) is increasing. Of course, some people make it quite far along in age before this trend occurs.
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Old 06-03-2017, 04:32 PM   #22
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Imoldernu, thanks so much for the post. I think of you often as we are in the same boat age wise. I'll be 81 in September. Is that the November of my life?

Like you, DW (79) and I are winding down. Trying to make sure we have enough to last without becoming a burden to our children. Both in fair health (we think) although we have our problems. I survived a heart attack in 2004 and my wife is a cancer survivor.

We are down to one home, mortgage free. I have been retired for 29 years and living comfortably on my pension plus our SS plus some investments. All of our investments now are in Vanguard Wellesley thanks to recommendations from folks on this forum. I'll never be a millionaire but I've felt like one thanks to my wife.

Best wishes, imoldernu, and to your family and to all members of the forum.
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Old 06-03-2017, 05:11 PM   #23
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Thanks moldy. What I think is great is that you are just now considering ratcheting back in housing. That probably means another 5 years before you have to consider one place. We could not consider that but in 15 years, we might think differently. Thanks for you return to our forum and active contributions.
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Old 06-03-2017, 06:45 PM   #24
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Imoldernu, thanks so much for the post. I think of you often as we are in the same boat age wise. I'll be 81 in September. Is that the November of my life?

Like you, DW (79) and I are winding down. Trying to make sure we have enough to last without becoming a burden to our children. Both in fair health (we think) although we have our problems. I survived a heart attack in 2004 and my wife is a cancer survivor.

We are down to one home, mortgage free. I have been retired for 29 years and living comfortably on my pension plus our SS plus some investments. All of our investments now are in Vanguard Wellesley thanks to recommendations from folks on this forum. I'll never be a millionaire but I've felt like one thanks to my wife.

Best wishes, imoldernu, and to your family and to all members of the forum.
Thank you, Johnnie... and best wishes, back to you and yours. FWIW, uroldernme, by one month, and have one more year of retirement under your belt. I'm still learning, so will listen for advice from an oldertimer.

A chance here to reflect on happiness... Life doesn't need to be perfect. I'm sure you face the same blips and downsides as do we all but they pale into insignificance when we appreciate what we've had, and how fortunate we are to be where we are, and able to do what we can, knowing that we've been blessed to still be around.

And, yes, the best to all of the members with whom we share our plans, thoughts and experiences. A great place for mental exercise.
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Old 06-03-2017, 07:58 PM   #25
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I just turned 79. My plan next year is to join OFO (United Flying Octogenarians). As long as I am in good health, I have no problems. My Dad lived to 92, and my Mom just died at 102.
When we first retired, we were spending $40K a year on travel. Now with our buckets pretty much filled, we are down to about 10K per year.
Between our SS and pensions, it pretty much covers our expenses. I have allocated a certain amount of mad money for me out of my RMD. The balance of the RMD is divided 4 ways between each of our sons (2 mine, 2 hers).
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:23 PM   #26
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Thanks to all for their contributions to this thread. It's been very enlightening.

What I've always wondered about aging is how does life change as you approach 80 years? I'm not all that concerned about the financial side, since that will obviously vary by individual. But how does your routine change? Are there any activities you find either difficult or impossible to do at this age? Do you lose interest in traveling as much? Are you full of energy or do you find that you get tired more easily?

What's better? What's worse?
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:27 PM   #27
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I have a spreadsheet that projects our spending to age 100. At 80, in today's dollars, the projected spend is $61K, down from about $95K today. With inflation it's $148K, mainly driven by medical and energy. We're both 56 today.



As a comparison point, my-in-laws are 83 and 84. I do their taxes and other financial stuff, so I know that their spending is right around $45-50K. They have a modest house which is fairly new so minimal maintenance... One car which gets little use, minimal entertainment unless DW and I drag them out of the house, travel maybe once per year to see their son's family in another state, some clothes, gifts for grand-kids and great grand kids, and zero federal taxes.



They retired in the early 90s with a little more than $1M nestegg. It's now down to about $130K. They traveled extensively until health problems slowed them down 7 or 8 years ago. They also sold their beach house in Florida and moved close to us here in Texas.


I'm curious if you don't mind sharing - how was their nest egg invested? Clearly their WR was higher than their returns if $1M is down to $130K in 25 years. Was this driven by medical costs, poor investment returns, or ...?
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:33 PM   #28
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I expect to be spending nothing at 80 since I likely won't be alive any more. If I am I will likely be in a nursing home on governments dime wishing I was dead. If I were somehow alive and well at that age then my expenses would likely be under $1500/mo.
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:58 PM   #29
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Thanks to all for their contributions to this thread. It's been very enlightening.

What I've always wondered about aging is how does life change as you approach 80 years? I'm not all that concerned about the financial side, since that will obviously vary by individual. But how does your routine change? Are there any activities you find either difficult or impossible to do at this age? Do you lose interest in traveling as much? Are you full of energy or do you find that you get tired more easily?

What's better? What's worse?
The short answer is: It depends. I am 79, my DW is 74. She suffers from AFIB and COPD. Somewhere, in the great life roulette, I have neither. i am as full of energy as always, and I still fly.
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Old 06-04-2017, 04:07 AM   #30
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Too hard for me to estimate.

When my mom was 80, she was in fairly good health and her expenses were about $1,500 a month.

When she died at 96, they were well over $6,000 a month living in an assisted living/memory care place.
Yeah, that's what stumps me every time. Things might be great at 80, but doesn't mean expenses might not go way up later. But at age 80, I can feel much more confident about spending down in 20 years, so that helps.

I had better be all set up in my CCRC or be on track for where I'm living out my days by 80. That will also clarify ongoing expenses.
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Old 06-04-2017, 08:42 AM   #31
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Thanks to all for their contributions to this thread. It's been very enlightening.

What I've always wondered about aging is how does life change as you approach 80 years? I'm not all that concerned about the financial side, since that will obviously vary by individual. But how does your routine change? Are there any activities you find either difficult or impossible to do at this age? Do you lose interest in traveling as much? Are you full of energy or do you find that you get tired more easily?

What's better? What's worse?
Yeah... changes... and just as much as there are differences on the financial side, so too, are there changes in what we do. It doesn't happen all at once, and in most cases, we don't really notice big differences.

To simplify, I'd break the changes into two parts... physical, and mental. At that, living in a CCRc, and seeing people our age,as well as much older, there are vast differences. People my age - some walk a mile or two every day, while others are bedridden, or limited to wheelchairs, and many (including my DW), rely on a cane or walker... for her, when walking on uneven ground. One of our best friends, is 97, and drives on a daily basis. Two weeks ago, his wife, at age 96, underwent successful hip replacement to alleviate unbearable pain.

Physically, my activity has slowed down. Partly because of a concern about recent diagnosis of AFIB, but mostly just because of muscle loss. What as recently as two years ago, was a 15-25 mile bicycle ride, is now down to less than five miles... without major hills. Work around our park model, no longer includes using ladders, and my chain saw is safely stowed... not to be used again. Sitting down on the floor to fix stuff, becomes a planned enterprise... bringing all possible tools to the repair site to avoid getting up and down. Sounds silly, even to me, but it's reality. We still do mall walking, but not as far or as strenuously.

Not all is bad... with regular medication, my blood panel is perfect... all in low and normal ranges where it matters. BP normal @ 120/70 or less. Cholesterol down from 312 to below normal, and triglycerides which topped at more than 500, also below normal. Never would have guessed that.

All of that may sound less than meaningful, but for me, some of the changes that have taken place. A bigger problem, physically, is the change in the get up and go... More content to watch TV news and favorite programs. More time sitting in front of the computer ... obviously.

The mental part is more of a concern. Creeping Alzheimers or dememtia. More on that here:
http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...ml#post1854374
Post number 285

Am evermore convinced that there is a differentiation from the commonly described symptoms/problems, in that two part of the mind are working... one for memory, and the other part for the deeper part of the intellect. Curiosity, reasoning, problem solving, and the basics of what we call intelligence... are still there. It's just the memory part... particularly for proper names, places and events from the past.

The question was about losing interest... no... even more so... Time for mental exercises and exploration through technology. .

As to energy?.... Plenty of mental energy, not so much physical. And Travel... The inconveniences of planning and getting ready outweigh the values. The travel days in retirement went from age 53, to the early 70's. After that, the comforts of home, and the avoidance of long times of driving or riding outweighed the enjoyment.

The other part... not the least... is the concern for DW... We both have ups and downs... Major adventures and decisions work best when both of us are on the same track.
.................................................. ...........................................

Difference strokes for different folks. The 90 year old widow who lives in the villa across the street... five houses up... is home for a total of about two months out of the year. Travel... relatives friends, US travel to almost every state, international travel.. back to her native Germany, Europe, and even Africa...

Generalizing doesn't work. We're very happy to be in the top half of our age
range... still alive. The rest of life is a day at a time, knowing that it's tenuous. That simply enhances our joy at being here, and appreciating every day. What used to be worry about "the future" or about "money" is just not there any more.

So I/we can't speak for others... but our assessment of life at this age, is happy.
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Old 06-04-2017, 09:03 AM   #32
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Yeah... changes... and just as much as there are differences on the financial side, so too, are there changes in what we do. It doesn't happen all at once, and in most cases, we don't really notice big differences.

To simplify, I'd break the changes into two parts... physical, and mental. At that, living in a CCRc, and seeing people our age,as well as much older, there are vast differences. People my age - some walk a mile or two every day, while others are bedridden, or limited to wheelchairs, and many (including my DW), rely on a cane or walker... for her, when walking on uneven ground. One of our best friends, is 97, and drives on a daily basis. Two weeks ago, his wife, at age 96, underwent successful hip replacement to alleviate unbearable pain.

Physically, my activity has slowed down. Partly because of a concern about recent diagnosis of AFIB, but mostly just because of muscle loss. What as recently as two years ago, was a 15-25 mile bicycle ride, is now down to less than five miles... without major hills. Work around our park model, no longer includes using ladders, and my chain saw is safely stowed... not to be used again. Sitting down on the floor to fix stuff, becomes a planned enterprise... bringing all possible tools to the repair site to avoid getting up and down. Sounds silly, even to me, but it's reality. We still do mall walking, but not as far or as strenuously.

Not all is bad... with regular medication, my blood panel is perfect... all in low and normal ranges where it matters. BP normal @ 120/70 or less. Cholesterol down from 312 to below normal, and triglycerides which topped at more than 500, also below normal. Never would have guessed that.

All of that may sound less than meaningful, but for me, some of the changes that have taken place. A bigger problem, physically, is the change in the get up and go... More content to watch TV news and favorite programs. More time sitting in front of the computer ... obviously.

The mental part is more of a concern. Creeping Alzheimers or dememtia. More on that here:
http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...ml#post1854374
Post number 285

Am evermore convinced that there is a differentiation from the commonly described symptoms/problems, in that two part of the mind are working... one for memory, and the other part for the deeper part of the intellect. Curiosity, reasoning, problem solving, and the basics of what we call intelligence... are still there. It's just the memory part... particularly for proper names, places and events from the past.

The question was about losing interest... no... even more so... Time for mental exercises and exploration through technology. .

As to energy?.... Plenty of mental energy, not so much physical. And Travel... The inconveniences of planning and getting ready outweigh the values. The travel days in retirement went from age 53, to the early 70's. After that, the comforts of home, and the avoidance of long times of driving or riding outweighed the enjoyment.

The other part... not the least... is the concern for DW... We both have ups and downs... Major adventures and decisions work best when both of us are on the same track.
.................................................. ...........................................

Difference strokes for different folks. The 90 year old widow who lives in the villa across the street... five houses up... is home for a total of about two months out of the year. Travel... relatives friends, US travel to almost every state, international travel.. back to her native Germany, Europe, and even Africa...

Generalizing doesn't work. We're very happy to be in the top half of our age
range... still alive. The rest of life is a day at a time, knowing that it's tenuous. That simply enhances our joy at being here, and appreciating every day. What used to be worry about "the future" or about "money" is just not there any more.

So I/we can't speak for others... but our assessment of life at this age, is happy.
Imoldernu Sir,

I have always enjoyed reading your posts and learned a lot from your experiences. May you be blessed with good health and happiness always.

Regards,
Rick
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Old 06-04-2017, 09:40 AM   #33
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Good summary, and tracks with my observations of people around age 80, except for my unfortunate relatives with Alzheimers. Happily, you sound nothing like them.

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The mental part is more of a concern....

Am evermore convinced that there is a differentiation from the commonly described symptoms/problems, in that two part of the mind are working... one for memory, and the other part for the deeper part of the intellect. Curiosity, reasoning, problem solving, and the basics of what we call intelligence... are still there. It's just the memory part... particularly for proper names, places and events from the past.

.
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Old 06-04-2017, 09:48 AM   #34
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Difference strokes for different folks
Not sure I'd want to use that metaphor in a thread about aging. Now you got me all upset
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Old 06-04-2017, 09:56 AM   #35
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Our plan shows (today $) $51K (basic expenses) + $12K (taxes on RMD) + $25K (Healthcare) = $88K (total)... Right now I assume no SS so taxes will be more if SS is still around. I can only hope I'll be around when I'm 80 ....
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Old 06-04-2017, 12:20 PM   #36
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...They retired in the early 90s with a little more than $1M nestegg. It's now down to about $130K. They traveled extensively until health problems slowed them down 7 or 8 years ago. They also sold their beach house in Florida and moved close to us here in Texas.
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I'm curious if you don't mind sharing - how was their nest egg invested? Clearly their WR was higher than their returns if $1M is down to $130K in 25 years. Was this driven by medical costs, poor investment returns, or ...?
I don't know the whole story, just fragments from what DW and DMIL have told me, and neither of them knows the whole story either. FIL controlled everything until he had a stroke ~8 years ago and now remembers almost nothing. When I took over their portfolio and moved it to Fidelity, it was a bizarre mix of individual stocks... a few blue chips, the rest very small companies I had never heard of, and 40% cash. They had a highly-compensated FA who evidently lost interest when their account fell below a certain level, but of course he continued to collect fees.

However, from what I can gather, the bigger issue was spending. They had an expensive beach house in Florida and traveled 4-5 months every year, mostly international. I remember that FIL went back to work at one point as a contractor for 2 years, and then the traveling resumed. The medical issues started when they were 75-76 and continue to today, but it's unclear to me if these were a significant financial drain since they have very good insurance.

DW likes to say that her parents are the classic case of spending on themselves and bouncing the last check to the undertaker. I always tell her that it's too early to draw that conclusion because they have very few resources for LTC, which seems increasingly probable. I think a large part of the reason I don't "blow dough" like RobbieB is that I can't bear the thought of being a financial burden on my kids, which appears to be a likely outcome with the in-laws. If I'm lucky enough to reach 83-84, I'd like to have enough money for several years of LTC, and if that's not needed, the kids and grand-kids can have a party.
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Old 06-04-2017, 01:09 PM   #37
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I hope to leave my kids in better position, but I thought 80 is the beginning of a physical and mental decline so I think that's still the unknown. While I do spend, not a frugal person, but I don't have the need to blow the dough because frankly, if I get any joy I would, but I think I get more anxiety.
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Old 06-04-2017, 02:46 PM   #38
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Yeah... changes... and just as much as there are differences on the financial side, so too, are there changes in what we do. It doesn't happen all at once, and in most cases, we don't really notice big differences.

To simplify, I'd break the changes into two parts... physical, and mental. At that, living in a CCRc, and seeing people our age,as well as much older, there are vast differences. People my age - some walk a mile or two every day, while others are bedridden, or limited to wheelchairs, and many (including my DW), rely on a cane or walker... for her, when walking on uneven ground. One of our best friends, is 97, and drives on a daily basis. Two weeks ago, his wife, at age 96, underwent successful hip replacement to alleviate unbearable pain.

Physically, my activity has slowed down. Partly because of a concern about recent diagnosis of AFIB, but mostly just because of muscle loss. What as recently as two years ago, was a 15-25 mile bicycle ride, is now down to less than five miles... without major hills. Work around our park model, no longer includes using ladders, and my chain saw is safely stowed... not to be used again. Sitting down on the floor to fix stuff, becomes a planned enterprise... bringing all possible tools to the repair site to avoid getting up and down. Sounds silly, even to me, but it's reality. We still do mall walking, but not as far or as strenuously.

Not all is bad... with regular medication, my blood panel is perfect... all in low and normal ranges where it matters. BP normal @ 120/70 or less. Cholesterol down from 312 to below normal, and triglycerides which topped at more than 500, also below normal. Never would have guessed that.

All of that may sound less than meaningful, but for me, some of the changes that have taken place. A bigger problem, physically, is the change in the get up and go... More content to watch TV news and favorite programs. More time sitting in front of the computer ... obviously.

The mental part is more of a concern. Creeping Alzheimers or dememtia. More on that here:
http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...ml#post1854374
Post number 285

Am evermore convinced that there is a differentiation from the commonly described symptoms/problems, in that two part of the mind are working... one for memory, and the other part for the deeper part of the intellect. Curiosity, reasoning, problem solving, and the basics of what we call intelligence... are still there. It's just the memory part... particularly for proper names, places and events from the past.

The question was about losing interest... no... even more so... Time for mental exercises and exploration through technology. .

As to energy?.... Plenty of mental energy, not so much physical. And Travel... The inconveniences of planning and getting ready outweigh the values. The travel days in retirement went from age 53, to the early 70's. After that, the comforts of home, and the avoidance of long times of driving or riding outweighed the enjoyment.

The other part... not the least... is the concern for DW... We both have ups and downs... Major adventures and decisions work best when both of us are on the same track.
.................................................. ...........................................

Difference strokes for different folks. The 90 year old widow who lives in the villa across the street... five houses up... is home for a total of about two months out of the year. Travel... relatives friends, US travel to almost every state, international travel.. back to her native Germany, Europe, and even Africa...

Generalizing doesn't work. We're very happy to be in the top half of our age
range... still alive. The rest of life is a day at a time, knowing that it's tenuous. That simply enhances our joy at being here, and appreciating every day. What used to be worry about "the future" or about "money" is just not there any more.

So I/we can't speak for others... but our assessment of life at this age, is happy.
Seeing that you just got diagnosed with AFib and were cutting back on exercise I thought I'd mention the following video from a cardiologist that has a lot of YouTube videos on the subject. Here he talks about a recent study that showed vigorous exercise using interval training lowers the incidence of AFib symptoms.

Interesting, but may not be appropriate for everyone.



http://www.livingwithatrialfibrillat...tion-patients/
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:54 AM   #39
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I don't know the whole story, just fragments from what DW and DMIL have told me, and neither of them knows the whole story either. FIL controlled everything until he had a stroke ~8 years ago and now remembers almost nothing. When I took over their portfolio and moved it to Fidelity, it was a bizarre mix of individual stocks... a few blue chips, the rest very small companies I had never heard of, and 40% cash. They had a highly-compensated FA who evidently lost interest when their account fell below a certain level, but of course he continued to collect fees.



However, from what I can gather, the bigger issue was spending. They had an expensive beach house in Florida and traveled 4-5 months every year, mostly international. I remember that FIL went back to work at one point as a contractor for 2 years, and then the traveling resumed. The medical issues started when they were 75-76 and continue to today, but it's unclear to me if these were a significant financial drain since they have very good insurance.



DW likes to say that her parents are the classic case of spending on themselves and bouncing the last check to the undertaker. I always tell her that it's too early to draw that conclusion because they have very few resources for LTC, which seems increasingly probable. I think a large part of the reason I don't "blow dough" like RobbieB is that I can't bear the thought of being a financial burden on my kids, which appears to be a likely outcome with the in-laws. If I'm lucky enough to reach 83-84, I'd like to have enough money for several years of LTC, and if that's not needed, the kids and grand-kids can have a party.


That's a sad situation. I thought spending must have significantly outpaced returns to have drawn down almost all of their portfolio. If either of them needs assistive living services, check out "board & care" homes in your area. They don't have all the bells & whistles of a CCRC or modern assisted living facility, but many provide quality basic care in a home environment. Much less cost than a CCRC or AL facility. If they need more help than AL or Board & Care can provide (i.e. Skilled nursing), once their assets have been spent down, they can qualify for Medicaid. There are lots of attorneys who can help with advice on how to shield their remaining assets so funds are available for medications and other basic needs not covered by Medicaid.
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