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Old 11-18-2023, 05:51 PM   #21
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Yes. but if you shoot them on your front porch it is important to drag them inside before calling the cops.

You just need a little more land.
And a backhoe.
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Old 11-18-2023, 06:17 PM   #22
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You just need a little more land.
And a backhoe.
I have found an excavator works

edit: Before anyone gets the wrong idea

A backhoe is faster
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Old 11-18-2023, 07:24 PM   #23
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I had a guy tell me once that when a person buys an umbrella insurance policy, they're not paying for insurance, they're paying for a team of high-priced lawyers. If you think about it, the more money the insurance company has to lose, the more they are going to fight to keep it.
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Old 11-18-2023, 08:14 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Masquernom View Post
Several years ago I attended a presentation by a retired judge in Michigan that was given during a course for a concealed carry license. He explained that if you shot someone in your home, you may be clear of criminal charges, but NOT civil charges. And if you have an umbrella insurance policy, you're a lawyer's dream.
I'm not advocating against those policies, it was just a surprise how the retired judge viewed them.
Yeah but "retired software engineer " is also a lawyer's dream, worth discovery at least.

I prefer to leave the dreaming between insurance companies and not on my stash of treasuries. I'll get the umbrella.
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Old 11-18-2023, 08:46 PM   #25
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Going through this right now. My wife and I flew to Dallas from Florida to adopt a golden doodle puppy in August. The cost to put a pet on a plane unless it fits under the seat in front of you, you are active military or is a service dog is extremely expensive -- for our 27 pound puppy it was close to $2,000 to be placed in the cargo hold. So we rented a car from Hertz and headed east.

Around 8:00 at night outside of Mobile the small suv we were driving was reared-ended by a ford F-350 going 45+ mph. We were slowly down for stopped traffic in front of us. The rear 3rd of the car was collapsed into the second seat and the car was totaled. Due to the pain in my neck radiating down my arm and lower back pain and spasms, I was transported to a hospital in Mobile. Spent most of the night and was discharged with whiplash and soft tissue injuries, not fractures. Over the last two months I've had 4 lower spine injections x2, taking tramadol and flexeril regularly. I'm just beginning to feel better and turn the corner.

Immediately, called my state farm agent and reported the accident. Police report states accident was the fault of the other driver. My agents says, nothing to worry about, you have great coverage -- he files the claim. A few days later a claim adjuster from state farm tells me I'm not covered under PIP. I immediately call my agent, he says that's bullshit and calls the claim adjuster. Two days later, my agent calls me back and says your not covered under PIP. He says (1) because the accident occurred outside of my home state and (2) I was in a rental car for the purpose of pleasure (not because my vehicle had mechanical problems/was being repaired). There's some fine print he was not aware of. I'm not covered. He said I could file for pain and suffering through state farm.

This has been a nightmare, too many moving parts... Medicare is rejecting the claims due to it being the result of an accident, State Farm is saying we don't have to pay. My secondary insurance is denying payment. So, I hired a personal injury attorney. The medical bills are beginning to come in -- medical expenses are more than $35,000.

The other piece that complicated this entire situation is I've had several cervical and lumbar fusions over the last 20 years. My last spine surgery was 2+1/2 years ago to enlarge the nerve openings and remove some bone fragments. I have not needed any treatment or physical therapy since then. I was able to play golf twice a week, get on the treadmill everyday... have an active life. There's been not golf, boating/fishing, limited treadmill time.

It will be interested to see how this all plays out.
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Old 11-19-2023, 02:49 AM   #26
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Old 11-19-2023, 04:26 AM   #27
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DS was struck by a pickup truck while she was crossing the street in a crosswalk. Camera footage shows the pickup running a stop sign; DS had fractured skull, broken collarbone, 8 fractured ribs, broken pelvis, and a concussion with a slight brain bleed. Extremely lucky she wasn't killed. DS's Auto insurance paid her medical bills, not the driver's auto policy. Truck was in the driver's wife name, my DS's personal injury lawyers advised not to sue, assets were protected. DS's personal injury lawyers got 66% of the liability insurance limit after all medical expenses were paid more than what DS was paid. DS put up a big bitch, rightfully so, but was told that's how Pennsylvania law worked. Personal injury lawyer changed the settlement terms to my sister's favor getting 66% and the lawyers getting the remainder. Driver of truck got a couple of traffic tickets, probably lost auto insurance.

Get a lawyer to represent you to make sure your assets are protected and make sure your state's laws are followed. Never in my wildest dreams would I think things would turn out the way they did, I don't think you should worry, I'm sure state laws are similar.

DS recovered, but it took a long while. Good luck with your situation.
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Old 11-19-2023, 11:37 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by wyecrabber1 View Post
Going through this right now. My wife and I flew to Dallas from Florida to adopt a golden doodle puppy in August. The cost to put a pet on a plane unless it fits under the seat in front of you, you are active military or is a service dog is extremely expensive -- for our 27 pound puppy it was close to $2,000 to be placed in the cargo hold. So we rented a car from Hertz and headed east.

Around 8:00 at night outside of Mobile the small suv we were driving was reared-ended by a ford F-350 going 45+ mph. We were slowly down for stopped traffic in front of us. The rear 3rd of the car was collapsed into the second seat and the car was totaled. Due to the pain in my neck radiating down my arm and lower back pain and spasms, I was transported to a hospital in Mobile. Spent most of the night and was discharged with whiplash and soft tissue injuries, not fractures. Over the last two months I've had 4 lower spine injections x2, taking tramadol and flexeril regularly. I'm just beginning to feel better and turn the corner.

Immediately, called my state farm agent and reported the accident. Police report states accident was the fault of the other driver. My agents says, nothing to worry about, you have great coverage -- he files the claim. A few days later a claim adjuster from state farm tells me I'm not covered under PIP. I immediately call my agent, he says that's bullshit and calls the claim adjuster. Two days later, my agent calls me back and says your not covered under PIP. He says (1) because the accident occurred outside of my home state and (2) I was in a rental car for the purpose of pleasure (not because my vehicle had mechanical problems/was being repaired). There's some fine print he was not aware of. I'm not covered. He said I could file for pain and suffering through state farm.

This has been a nightmare, too many moving parts... Medicare is rejecting the claims due to it being the result of an accident, State Farm is saying we don't have to pay. My secondary insurance is denying payment. So, I hired a personal injury attorney. The medical bills are beginning to come in -- medical expenses are more than $35,000.

The other piece that complicated this entire situation is I've had several cervical and lumbar fusions over the last 20 years. My last spine surgery was 2+1/2 years ago to enlarge the nerve openings and remove some bone fragments. I have not needed any treatment or physical therapy since then. I was able to play golf twice a week, get on the treadmill everyday... have an active life. There's been not golf, boating/fishing, limited treadmill time.

It will be interested to see how this all plays out.
Good luck with this! Neck and back injuries are the worst - they can linger for years, and as you've gone through, often can require more surgeries in the future. Hopefully, you got a very experienced lawyer that can handle this on several fronts.

Having said that, make sure DS doesn't post on any social media. My lawyer was very clear that I was not to post anything. During her deposition, the other lawyers will ask and she'll be under oath. Better safe than sorry.
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Old 11-19-2023, 12:08 PM   #29
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The social media warning is a good one. Without going into details a case my wife and I were involved in, the people who committed a crime against us posted all kinds of stuff on FB with incriminating details. We have dozens of screen captures waiting to be put to good use. The crime is still in the courts.
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Old 11-20-2023, 03:42 AM   #30
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Don't post here. Don't post on Reddit. Don't post on X.

You are never truly anonymous. A big enough lawsuit will get out the tech experts.
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Old 11-25-2023, 07:49 AM   #31
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Hopefully you put the claim in immediately with your umbrella insurance company. I know you have the same company as your auto policy, but you still have to notify the umbrella policy division right away or they can deny the claim.

Ask me how I know.
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Old 11-25-2023, 08:37 AM   #32
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Hopefully you put the claim in immediately with your umbrella insurance company. I know you have the same company as your auto policy, but you still have to notify the umbrella policy division right away or they can deny the claim.

Ask me how I know.
I was in the insurance industry for 40 years and never heard of this. If it were different companies, then you would need to contact both, but with same company, that seems strange. Learn something new every day. Would be interested in knowing details if you care to share.
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Old 11-25-2023, 08:53 AM   #33
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I was in the insurance industry for 40 years and never heard of this. If it were different companies, then you would need to contact both, but with same company, that seems strange. Learn something new every day. Would be interested in knowing details if you care to share.
We had the same insurance company for both.

Many, many years ago my father-in-law borrowed our car and a young boy on a bike hit into him while he was pulling out of a parking space in the city, but was ok as far as we knew.

Of course claim was put into the auto insurance.

Much later- lawsuit came and when we called the umbrella division they told us we should have called them when the initial accident happened! They said it was too far after the accident to notify them.

Thankfully it didnít get as far as needing the umbrella policy or we would have been out of luck.
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Old 11-25-2023, 09:05 AM   #34
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Years ago there was a network of scammers in the Chicago suburbs. It took a long time to figure it out and my SIL was part of it. The suburbs have lots of traffic, and people are in a hurry. The scam was when someone suddenly puts on their brakes then someone behind rear ends them. The car putting on the brakes is the scammer, the person behind is the victim.

Scammers suddenly put on their breaks on purpose to get the person behind to bump the car ahead. The car ahead claims neck/back injuries and sues for pain and suffering. This case involved the FBI eventually because it was hard to prove. SIL rear-ended one of the scammers and was involved in a lawsuit. Took years to resolve and figure out it was a network of sudden breakers.
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Old 11-25-2023, 10:30 AM   #35
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OP, I am not an attorney however have some limited experience in this field. My personal opinion is first, your hypothetical situation is not at all unusual. People often have minor or even no injuries at an accident scene and later need seek/need treatment for injuries allegedly sustained in an accident. Some are more genuine than others for what it is worth, but that is a whole different subject.

As already noted, most states have a 2 year statute of limitations on civil actions, requiring a complaint to be filed within 2 years of the accident date. Any liability insurance carrier would be very familiar with this type of technical issue as far as the merits of the case.

The fact that you carry both liability auto insurance as well as an umbrella policy would seem to indicate you have sufficient insurance however your auto carrier, knowing the extent of injuries as well as treatment received by the plaintiff, should be able to answer this question very easily. That said, you should also know your policy limits for both. Your policy will most certainly provide you with necessary legal representation however you will know fairly quickly if you need to personally consult with an attorney.

The issue of an umbrella policy has its pros and cons. Personally I like having one in the event your negligence results in a large exposure or award. The downside is that personal injury attorneys will often view it as a deep well to draw from and it obviously can result in larger settlements for which you should be protected.

Just my opinion, but if you have any significant wealth and don't carry an umbrella policy, I would suggest that your assets be held in the joint name of you and your partner/spouse, which helps protect them from these types of actions brought against the individual. Good luck with your hypothetical situation.
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Old 11-25-2023, 11:39 AM   #36
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There is likely a claims rep at your insurance company that is doing most of the leg work and knows the most about what is really taking place. You may be able to speak with them.

The attorney hired by the insurance company represents you and will act in your best interest.

Not true in my case but it was 20 years ago.


I hit black ice and slid sideways into oncoming traffic. Was t boned by an older women who got concussion and broke her pelvis, was in the hospital for a month. I was fine.


Heard nothing from the insurance company (liberty biberty) for over two years. One day got a letter from them stating they had settled with her for $50k (I had this as extra coverage luckily). The letter stated I could be on the hook for another $100k if she sued me directly.


I called and asked why I wasn't consulted and make the payment contingent on her accepting the $50k. Was told not how it is done and basically take a hike..


She never came after me but I got $1M Umbrella the next year form a different Ins. Co....


Good Luck,


Wally
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Old 11-25-2023, 04:45 PM   #37
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Going through this right now. My wife and I flew to Dallas from Florida to adopt a golden doodle puppy in August. The cost to put a pet on a plane unless it fits under the seat in front of you, you are active military or is a service dog is extremely expensive -- for our 27 pound puppy it was close to $2,000 to be placed in the cargo hold. So we rented a car from Hertz and headed east.

Around 8:00 at night outside of Mobile the small suv we were driving was reared-ended by a ford F-350 going 45+ mph. We were slowly down for stopped traffic in front of us. The rear 3rd of the car was collapsed into the second seat and the car was totaled. Due to the pain in my neck radiating down my arm and lower back pain and spasms, I was transported to a hospital in Mobile. Spent most of the night and was discharged with whiplash and soft tissue injuries, not fractures. Over the last two months I've had 4 lower spine injections x2, taking tramadol and flexeril regularly. I'm just beginning to feel better and turn the corner.

Immediately, called my state farm agent and reported the accident. Police report states accident was the fault of the other driver. My agents says, nothing to worry about, you have great coverage -- he files the claim. A few days later a claim adjuster from state farm tells me I'm not covered under PIP. I immediately call my agent, he says that's bullshit and calls the claim adjuster. Two days later, my agent calls me back and says your not covered under PIP. He says (1) because the accident occurred outside of my home state and (2) I was in a rental car for the purpose of pleasure (not because my vehicle had mechanical problems/was being repaired). There's some fine print he was not aware of. I'm not covered. He said I could file for pain and suffering through state farm.

This has been a nightmare, too many moving parts... Medicare is rejecting the claims due to it being the result of an accident, State Farm is saying we don't have to pay. My secondary insurance is denying payment. So, I hired a personal injury attorney. The medical bills are beginning to come in -- medical expenses are more than $35,000.

The other piece that complicated this entire situation is I've had several cervical and lumbar fusions over the last 20 years. My last spine surgery was 2+1/2 years ago to enlarge the nerve openings and remove some bone fragments. I have not needed any treatment or physical therapy since then. I was able to play golf twice a week, get on the treadmill everyday... have an active life. There's been not golf, boating/fishing, limited treadmill time.

It will be interested to see how this all plays out.
I was a mock juror in a case much like this (including prior injuries) and the result of our deliberations was a substantial settlement for the injured person. I'm guessing they decided to settle versus going to court based on what we decided in the mock case. I bought my first umbrella policy right after this experience. The numbers add up quick!
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Old 11-27-2023, 08:42 AM   #38
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Hypothetically speaking: Let's say you were in an auto accident that turned out to be your fault. Police arrived; the other driver was taken away in an ambulance but was conscious and not bleeding or with obvious issues. No tickets were issued.

2.5 years later; you're served with a summons that you're being sued for pain and suffering. Your auto insurance company's attorney is representing you; you also have an Umbrella policy with the same company.

I know the attorney is really representing the insurance company, do I need my own attorney? Are these types of lawsuits common? What's the typical outcome? If my coverage levels aren't enough to cover the final judgement; can my IRA accounts be taken?

Hypothetically speaking; never been sued before so am a bit anxious.

Thanks, team.

I just ignore Hypothetically speaking. In your Hypothetical situation I would let the insurance company handle it
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Old 11-27-2023, 09:33 AM   #39
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Hypothetically speaking. I could have been the injured party!
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Old 11-27-2023, 02:58 PM   #40
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Hypothetically speaking. I could have been the injured party!

My dad got threatened with a law suit for damages by the driver AT FAULT in the accident. Dad's insurance company was able to put the Kibosh on the whole thing, but I guess it's not unusual for people to sue just because they can. YMMV
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