Awkward Wealth

[bld999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayvt Better yet, pay with all crumpled $20 bills.

Early in my building career, a favorite superintendent used to say about a co-worker: "Johnny's so tight, he rubs the buffalo off all his nickels"

[Milton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheesehead People like to hang with their own, they feel more comfortable whether it’s ethnically, politically, age-wise, denominationally and yes, socio-economically.

Some people, certainly; but not everyone.

Although I'm not particularly gregarious, I can sincerely say that my own circle of friends includes people of different ages, genders, nationalities, occupations, political leanings, races, religions, sexual orientations and yes, wealth.

It is easy, and pleasant, to find shared experiences and interests with just about anyone. We human beings all have much in common, regardless of where we grew up, what car we drive (if any), etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheesehead My wife expressed interest that we get together as couples but I had no interest, having grown up next to super affluent suburbs I knew the personality type from high school. Life on Easy Street. [M]y entire life I’ve divided folks who’ve “made it” (or ER'd) into two categories, the ones who really earned it through their merit: hard work, intelligence, saving, initiative. And then the ones who got it handed to them…. [W]hen the DW wants to get together socially with people who I know are trust fund babies or lucked into a big inheritance I decline. Not that they’re bad people or I’m envious but that our concerns/perspectives in life are so very different. Your relationship to money, your nest egg is a different mindset, no sweat equity is represented just custodial. You can call it envy but I have a basic lack of respect, no matter how well I like them on their other traits. We come from working class origins and are now I guess you’d say upper middle class but we EARNED it.... I have a billionaire client who picks me up in his private jet a few times a year. Sometimes there’s several family members on board hitching a ride. What they talk about we mortals could not relate to, such as “finding help”, decorating the fourth home on some island, etc. And yes, I am envious because they didn’t earn it, all trust fund babies, and I can’t relate to them even though one-on-one they are the nicest people!

Sad.

Reverse snobbery is no less unattractive, or personally limiting, than the traditional kind.

[simple girl]

Cheesehead, if you inherited money, do you think it would change you into this stereotypical type of person you describe?

I find it hard to believe that I would change into the kind of person you describe if I inherited money. I'm not saying it doesn't change many people, but what I'm saying is - I think there are going to be some who would not let it change who they are at their core.

[FUEGO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheesehead When I hit my mid-50's and started to discuss, research, converse about retirement there were many of my peers, friends, co-workers, etc. after a few beers, confided that they only had to outlast their parents. There was enough fortune in the family, sometimes dynastic, that they just had to wait. I think knowing that you're coming into Easy Street creates a distinctly different perspective on life. Seen it a lot of times. How could it not? It takes the WORRY out of retirement. After that, health is your only worry. So that separates you from the majority of everyone you will meet. And actually that is what the OP started, how having enough money to ER separates you from the vast majority of everyone you come into contact with.

I guess I'm fortunate to not know any true trust fund babies other than my old best friend and college roommate who was set to receive a six figure trust corpus at 30 or 35, and who finished his PhD and went on to save the world in his own way. My roommate struggled with "what's the point of working hard?" for a while since he knew he was going to receive what amounts to a life changing amount of money when you're a broke college student.

Working in the professional fields and coming from thrifty family stock, my parents and most of my aunts and uncles are all millionaires or more likely multi-millionaires. I figure I'll get a seven figure inheritance in another few decades (parents are 61, wealthy childless uncle who respects me a lot is 51). But I'm not counting on it and feel proud to have made my own way in life (with early initial support from my parents of course).

[Cheesehead]

Well, that's what I get for posting before drinking my morning coffee! Get misconstrued.

I do have friends and peeps in our social circle(s) much different than us but not in much higher financial sphere. Money does change people. From the colleges their kids are considering, vacationing as couples, etc.,etc.

And Fuego, in the back of your mind you know you'll be coming into money, and I have seen a lot of people in that situation. Or those that married into it. Knowing that you will not need to worry about money in retirement you'll have a LOT less stress in your later years concerning retirement, a LOT less stress. And that makes you different whether you like it or not, whether you admit it or not.

But you should have a Plan B in case the money doesn't materialize, which I have also seen. At the opening of the will friends who thought they would be on Easy Street learned it was left to the church, the university, etc.

Lastly, I am one of the few who try to minimize their amount of screen time to experience life, which is everything away from a computer screen.

[simple girl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheesehead Money does change people. From the colleges their kids are considering, vacationing as couples, etc.,etc.

Yes, money can change the activities you can experience and things you can purchase.

But does it have to change who you are at your core, and if so, always for the bad?

Of course it does for many, evidenced by the experiences you have had and what we see happens to lotto winners, etc. But I firmly believe that it does not have to change your core values and how you treat others who may have less than you. I am saddened that you have met so many people who have let it change them in ways which resulted in them treating others so poorly.

[calmloki]

Grace. some have it, some don't. I don't think of myself as a very social person, but was at dinner with two other couples who are doing just fine and happily spending their upper school administrator pension checks. I was ashamed for our table by the loud disrespectful dismissive behavior. I made an extra effort with our waitress, who bore the posturing of several very picky eaters and made a point to include myself with the provincial Oregonians they were trashing. No call for their behavior. no grace. While we are probably in similar economic status I've no desire to hang with them. I've known richer and poorer who were more comfortable.

[robnplunder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milton Although I'm not particularly gregarious, I can sincerely say that my own circle of friends includes people of different ages, genders, nationalities, occupations, political leanings, races, religions, sexual orientations and yes, wealth.

That's the way it should be, and the way I am. But there are people that Cheesehead mentioned who feel more comfortable hanging around with others with similar background. When I run into someone like that, I give them space and keep my distance. Actually, I stopped trying on the account of life is too short and there are 7 billion people to choose your friends from.

My few encounters with the richly inherited folks were pretty negative. One coworker in her 30s was so spoiled and obnoxious that it made me sick. She seems to have no reservations on anything, i.e, did pretty much what she wanted, revolted if things didn't go her ways, etc.. Another man often boasted about his dad's wealth, e.g "my dad has a mansion with 13 bedrooms." Engaging them even in small talk was difficult b/c they'd talk about things that I have no clue at the time (in late 20's, big mortgages).

[razztazz]

I know exactly what Cheesehead is describing even though our backgrounds are vastly different. The F Scott Fitz quote is a good one.

[RunningBum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheesehead Well, that's what I get for posting before drinking my morning coffee! Get misconstrued. I do have friends and peeps in our social circle(s) much different than us but not in much higher financial sphere. Money does change people. From the colleges their kids are considering, vacationing as couples, etc.,etc.

And that right there is the crux of the OP, as I see it. You are judging people by their money and avoiding people with more of it. This is exactly why FI people try to avoid conversations about money, and if you slip and say something that connotes wealth, it becomes awkward around people with less who have a bias about people with money.

[rodi]

I had an inheritance that was life changing... It allowed me to move my ER date up by 3 years.... as long as I live in my budget (which is pretty darn frugal.) I was still set to ER at age 55 without the inheritance, instead I ER'd at 52. I did NOT retire at the time of the inheritance. Rather, I retired 7 years later. I did not purchase any big ticket items - although we paid off the HELOC we were using for a construction project... that debt reduction allowed me to save MY earnings at a more significant rate since I no longer had that added debt. I continued to work, as did my husband. No easy street... no land rover... no issues with hired help as worries.

My car is 10 years old (older than the inheritance.) My husbands car is 18 years old. My kids college funds are still set to the PUBLIC university levels, not private colleges. None of that changed. Why would it.

I would say the goal of ER and frugality were not changed by the inheritance. But the timing was. I continued working and saving and finding ways to cut my budget for the 7 years after my father died to the time I retired. Knowing it was more in my grasp brought me to this site to research, to learn, to master the LBYM as a means to ER. (I was frugal before... but having ER more tangible made me more focused.)

You can think I'm a snob living on easy street.... Whatever. I think you're a reverse snob who makes assumptions about people that might not be valid.

[robnplunder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robnplunder My few encounters with the richly inherited folks were pretty negative. One coworker in her 30s was so spoiled and obnoxious that it made me sick. She seems to have no reservations on anything, i.e, did pretty much what she wanted, revolted if things didn't go her ways, etc.. Another man often boasted about his dad's wealth, e.g "my dad has a mansion with 13 bedrooms." Engaging them even in small talk was difficult b/c they'd talk about things that I have no clue at the time (in late 20's, big mortgages).

And I may add ... the group I was in had a lot of rich Jewish people, children of old money. Hiring managers reached out to their circle of friends and hired other richly inherited folks. I felt I was out of place and had to leave the group eventually.

[robnplunder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodi I had an inheritance that was life changing... It allowed me to move my ER date up by 3 years.... as long as I live in my budget (which is pretty darn frugal.) I was still set to ER at age 55 without the inheritance, instead I ER'd at 52. I did NOT retire at the time of the inheritance. Rather, I retired 7 years later. I did not purchase any big ticket items - although we paid off the HELOC we were using for a construction project... that debt reduction allowed me to save MY earnings at a more significant rate since I no longer had that added debt. I continued to work, as did my husband. No easy street... no land rover... no issues with hired help as worries. My car is 10 years old (older than the inheritance.) My husbands car is 18 years old. My kids college funds are still set to the PUBLIC university levels, not private colleges. None of that changed. Why would it. I would say the goal of ER and frugality were not changed by the inheritance. But the timing was. I continued working and saving and finding ways to cut my budget for the 7 years after my father died to the time I retired. Knowing it was more in my grasp brought me to this site to research, to learn, to master the LBYM as a means to ER. (I was frugal before... but having ER more tangible made me more focused.) You can think I'm a snob living on easy street.... Whatever. I think you're a reverse snob who makes assumptions about people that might not be valid.

Rodi, you don't qualify as an easy street snob. You can hang around with the rest of us.

[razztazz]

Quote:

You can think I'm a snob living on easy street.... Whatever. I think you're a reverse snob who makes assumptions about people that might not be valid.

So, who doesn't? Knowledge, exposure, and repeated personal experience ought to allow some assumptions to be made or just what does it mean to learn something?

[Amethyst]

A co-worker whom I've known for years, and who expects to inherit a good deal of money when her 84-year-old parents eventually die, spends everything she and her husband earn - much of it on fancy dinners, vacations and social things. That said, she's quite responsible - all her bills are paid on time. I only know she spends "most of what they have" because she sometimes bemoans having very little saved.

Our friendship began over a shared love of shopping for clothes and excitement over new houses, furniture, etc. but has pretty much died out as Mr. A. and I have grown more frugal over the years. She has been rather critical of us for not going on vacations and "fun things" such as trying out new restaurants.

Amethyst

[longranger]

My experiences with people who have earned their FI have been almost all positive. The only exception are a couple of close friends who have been filthy rich for a decade or more. They have lost contact with reality as experienced the other 99% including friends that are FI but at a more modest level.

A good example is a friend of mine who insists on having dinners at outrageously expensive restuarants. On top of that he brings a bottle or 3 of wine costing $1000 or more. We have let them know that we cannot afford that lifestyle and they react by insisting to pick up the bill. We also get together at eachothers homes and cook together often so have had several discussions about how DW and myself feel. They have made it clear that money is no object to them and that they are more than happy to pick up the bill at future dinners. It is very awkward. They consider us their best friends. Are me and DW being oversensitive or pridefull? Are they being insensitive to our discomfort? I don't know.

[Moemg]

I have a sister in law who is trust fund baby . She is hard working ambitious and an all around nice person who is also frugal .If you met her you would never guess how wealthy she is .Her children are also hard workers and down to earth people .

[RunningBum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by longranger My experiences with people who have earned their FI have been almost all positive. The only exception are a couple of close friends who have been filthy rich for a decade or more. They have lost contact with reality as experienced the other 99% including friends that are FI but at a more modest level. A good example is a friend of mine who insists on having dinners at outrageously expensive restuarants. On top of that he brings a bottle or 3 of wine costing $1000 or more. We have let them know that we cannot afford that lifestyle and they react by insisting to pick up the bill. We also get together at eachothers homes and cook together often so have had several discussions about how DW and myself feel. They have made it clear that money is no object to them and that they are more than happy to pick up the bill at future dinners. It is very awkward. They consider us their best friends. Are me and DW being oversensitive or pridefull? Are they being insensitive to our discomfort? I don't know.

Assuming you enjoy their friendship, I would continue to socialize with them, and ignore the amount of the bill. I would probably also at least occasionally reciprocate by treating them to an occasional meal at a restaurant that does not have pricey options, or a home cooked dinner. Who knows, they may even realize they have just as good of a time at those dinners!

[longranger]

RunningBum that is exactly how we have handled things up to now. I am still working so reciprocating is easy now. After I stop working in the relatively near future we will have a tighter budget. Hopefully they will understand our new financial reality and our friendship can continue without hurt feelings. Suspect the main problem is in my head not theirs as far as expensive dining.

[Andre1969]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robnplunder My few encounters with the richly inherited folks were pretty negative. One coworker in her 30s was so spoiled and obnoxious that it made me sick. She seems to have no reservations on anything, i.e, did pretty much what she wanted, revolted if things didn't go her ways, etc.. Another man often boasted about his dad's wealth, e.g "my dad has a mansion with 13 bedrooms." Engaging them even in small talk was difficult b/c they'd talk about things that I have no clue at the time (in late 20's, big mortgages).

I had a co-worker something like that. He didn't make a whole lot himself, and his wife was on disability, and watching kids "under the table", but his parents had money, and the father was always pretty generous in bailing them out.

Well, in 1999 they decided to combine households, selling the parents' house and their own townhouse, and having a nice, big house with an in-law suite built. At that point, they also had seemingly free reign on the parent's money.

I remember one time, commenting about having to put $1000 in repairs into the '85 LeSabre that Grandmom gave me when she had to give up driving, and he commented, dismissively, that I should get a new car and "Life's too short to drive crap!"

He was also a definite "keep up with the Joneses" type of guy. About a year earlier, one warm spring day in early 1998 I drove my '67 Catalina convertible to work, and we went out to lunch in it. He fell in love with the idea of a convertible so quickly that he took their truck and traded it in on a Chrysler Sebring convertible...his wife wasn't too pleased about that!

Still, he was a nice guy. But you could tell he was definitely getting out of touch, in some ways, because of his family's money. Also, when his father died, his Mom wasn't nearly as loose with the money, and their life of luxury evaporated. They had to downsize from a $660K house to a $270k house around 2003, and then lost even that. Last I heard they're both on disability, as he had a pretty bad stroke, and now they're living down in Appalachia somewhere.