Awkward Wealth

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 Link? I am sorry, but when you throw quality lines out like that, you should be able to point to a credible third party source.

Just google it. Plenty of info from many sources out there. Do you watch the news? It's been discussed frequently with the minimum wage issue being debated.

A recent study just released that something like 47 percent of college grads now don't earn more than high school grads.

Ric Edelman and Ray Lucia both mentioned the studies results on their talk shows.

All I am saying is that our economy and job market has changed drastically in the past 20 years.
20 years ago everybody felt sorry for school teachers making low pay while the private sector was getting rich.
So now those same teachers are considered overpaid and don't deserve a pension.

Obviously degrees in nursing or engineering or medicine or computer science ,etc will land a grad a job but not everyone can get these type degrees.

[LARS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eta2020 I guess it is because fact you have two BMWs and ..... Those items will impress gas station attendants though .

That is exactly the attitude I am pointing out. You assume that the only reason someone would spend $ on something you don't/can't (in this case expensive automobiles) is that it has to be for the reason of impressing someone.

Maybe just maybe, the guy/gal driving a better (or way better) car (or house or suit, etc.) than you simply made more money than you and can easily afford to buy what he/she wants.

Wonder who you think my Patek watch is to impress...

[eta2020]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARS That is exactly the attitude I am pointing out. You assume that the only reason someone would spend $ on something you don't/can't (in this case expensive automobiles) is that it has to be for the reason of impressing someone. Maybe just maybe, the guy/gal driving a better (or way better) car (or house or suit, etc.) than you simply made more money than you and can easily afford to buy what he/she wants. Wonder who you think my Patek watch is to impress...

It would not impress me because I can buy Patek watch as well as BMW in cash. I would HATE to look rich. It is impractical.......

As I said those items will impress gas station attendants and a like.

You would impress me if you have more then at least 10 million in "invest able assets" not counting your BMWs and Patek watch. Now it is possible that you do...... And in that case I must say yes you do impress me but your Patek watch does not

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplesky Just google it. Plenty of info from many sources out there. Do you watch the news? It's been discussed frequently with the minimum wage issue being debated. A recent study just released that something like 47 percent of college grads now don't earn more than high school grads. Ric Edelman and Ray Lucia both mentioned the studies results on their talk shows. All I am saying is that our economy and job market has changed drastically in the past 20 years. 20 years ago everybody felt sorry for school teachers making low pay while the private sector was getting rich. So now those same teachers are considered overpaid and don't deserve a pension. Obviously degrees in nursing or engineering or medicine or computer science ,etc will land a grad a job but not everyone can get these type degrees.

No link, then. Thanks for the confirmation that you are just slinging CP-USA BS against the wall to see what sticks.

[Keim]

I googled it. I got this: Salary Survey: Average Starting Salary for Class of 2013 Grads Increases 2.4 Percent
"The overall average starting salary for Class of 2013 new college graduates currently stands at $45,327, an increase of 2.4 percent over the reported average of $44,259 for Class of 2012 graduates, according to the September 2013 Salary Survey."
Of course, that is for those that have a job.

My math has never been great. But, isn't that about double the $12/hr claim?

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplesky Just google it. Plenty of info from many sources out there. Do you watch the news? It's been discussed frequently with the minimum wage issue being debated. A recent study just released that something like 47 percent of college grads now don't earn more than high school grads. Ric Edelman and Ray Lucia both mentioned the studies results on their talk shows. All I am saying is that our economy and job market has changed drastically in the past 20 years. 20 years ago everybody felt sorry for school teachers making low pay while the private sector was getting rich. So now those same teachers are considered overpaid and don't deserve a pension. Obviously degrees in nursing or engineering or medicine or computer science ,etc will land a grad a job but not everyone can get these type degrees.

[LARS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eta2020 It would not impress me because I can buy Patek watch as well as BMW in cash. I would HATE to look rich. It is impractical....... As I said those items will impress gas station attendants and a like. You would impress me if you have more then at least 10 million in "invest able assets" not counting your BMWs and Patek watch. Now it is possible that you do...... And in that case I must say yes you do impress me but your Patek watch does not

Again, what makes you think I (since you seem to want to personalize this) have any desire to impress you? I buy what I want because I like it and I can afford it. End of story.

Honestly your smug attitude of condemning others spending habits, particularly with throw away comments of "I could do it if I wanted to, but its such a waste of money" nonsense is very tiring (to put it politely).

[Keim]

Seems to me we've strayed far from the original topic. I sometimes-not often!-feel awkward when I'm driving around my restored 1976 Monte Carlo. It is such an obvious luxury to have a hobby car.

[eta2020]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARS Again, what makes you think I (since you seem to want to personalize this) have any desire to impress you? I buy what I want because I like it and I can afford it. End of story. Honestly your smug attitude of condemning others spending habits, particularly with throw away comments of "I could do it if I wanted to, but its such a waste of money" nonsense is very tiring (to put it politely).

It is not smug attitude. If you are lucky to do very well in your life....then you probably know that showing it off will lead to absolutely nothing good.

Now I know that so I would avoid anything to drive expensive car or wear Patek Watch.......

Doing that will not demonstrate anything positive to most of people and I am practical man and not a show off snob.

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keim I googled it. I got this: Salary Survey: Average Starting Salary for Class of 2013 Grads Increases 2.4 Percent "The overall average starting salary for Class of 2013 new college graduates currently stands at $45,327, an increase of 2.4 percent over the reported average of $44,259 for Class of 2012 graduates, according to the September 2013 Salary Survey." Of course, that is for those that have a job. My math has never been great. But, isn't that about double the $12/hr claim?

Heh, I love it when a BS artist gets the spotlight shone on them.

[Culture]

My moment, which has been repeated multiple times.

We have lived in the same starter home for 24 years, and everyone assumes is is paid off (which is correct), or near to it.

We are building our retirement home, which cost four times the value of out existing home. Friends keep making comments like "I bet it is going to be difficult to go back to paying a mortgage." The answer is no it is not, because we are paying cash. However, I have not pointed this out to anyone. I just generally agree (lie) and say that it is going to be hard to paying a mortgage again.

I guess this is not really awkward, I just wish I did not feel like I have to lie.

[AnIntentionalRoad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnieboy When I read about someone like Garth Brooks or Facebook dude, having hundreds of millions of dollars to billions of dollars, I can't even conceive of spending that much money in my lifetime.

There is a certain level of wealth where when you rise above it, you are no longer thinking about how you might be able to spend it all before you die. It just becomes a way of keeping score.

[Al in Ohio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 Link? I am sorry, but when you throw quality lines out like that, you should be able to point to a credible third party source.

That's bull. Here's a link: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House...ion_and_gender

Per latest US census figures a college grad with a BS earns an average of 67% more annually at age 25 than a 25 year old with only a high degree. Those are median salary figures.

And here's the LATEST figures regarding percentile of college grads who were still unemployed after a year of graduation.

"Four of every five participants in the National Center for Education Statistics survey graduated in fields outside science, technology, engineering and mathematics -- the so-called STEM fields. No major reported double-digit unemployment numbers. Graduates who majored in engineering had a 4.3 percent unemployment rate, while health care majors had a rate of 2.2 percent. The highest unemployment rate was 9.6 percent, for those with social science degrees."

IE: That statement that was reported last year by an April 2012 AP report and got a lot of "spin" had no basis. In fact the statistics show over 90% get good jobs in less than a year that pay almost double what they could hope to have made without that bachelor's degree.

The link to that is here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5564881.html


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

[Al in Ohio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplesky Just google it. Plenty of info from many sources out there. Do you watch the news? It's been discussed frequently with the minimum wage issue being debated. A recent study just released that something like 47 percent of college grads now don't earn more than high school grads. Ric Edelman and Ray Lucia both mentioned the studies results on their talk shows. All I am saying is that our economy and job market has changed drastically in the past 20 years. 20 years ago everybody felt sorry for school teachers making low pay while the private sector was getting rich. So now those same teachers are considered overpaid and don't deserve a pension. Obviously degrees in nursing or engineering or medicine or computer science ,etc will land a grad a job but not everyone can get these type degrees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 Link? I am sorry, but when you throw quality lines out like that, you should be able to point to a credible third party source.

That's bull. Here's a link: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House...ion_and_gender

Per latest US census figures a college grad with a BS earns an average of 67% more annually at age 25 than a 25 year old with only a high degree. Those are median salary figures.

And here's the LATEST figures regarding percentile of college grads who were still unemployed after a year of graduation.

"Four of every five participants in the National Center for Education Statistics survey graduated in fields outside science, technology, engineering and mathematics -- the so-called STEM fields. No major reported double-digit unemployment numbers. Graduates who majored in engineering had a 4.3 percent unemployment rate, while health care majors had a rate of 2.2 percent. The highest unemployment rate was 9.6 percent, for those with social science degrees."

IE: That statement that was reported last year by an April 2012 AP report and got a lot of "spin" had no basis. In fact the statistics show over 90% get good jobs in less than a year that pay almost double what they could hope to have made without that bachelor's degree.

The link to that is here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5564881.html


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

[pb4uski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eta2020 It is not smug attitude. If you are lucky to do very well in your life....then you probably know that showing it off will lead to absolutely nothing good. Now I know that so I would avoid anything to drive expensive car or wear Patek Watch....... Doing that will not demonstrate anything positive to most of people and I am practical man and not a show off snob.

Did it ever cross your mind that perhaps LARS just enjoys nice cars and watches or whatever and isn't "showing off" as you put it. Maybe he is doing well in life not because he is "lucky" as you wrote, but because the harder he works the luckier he gets.

I drive modest cars even though I could afford better but that is a choice I make but I certainly would not resent those who drive nicer cars because they can afford to and chose to. I have several friends who chose to drive Audi, BMW and Porsche and if that is how they chose to spend their money that is fine with me.

You may think you're not a snob, and perhaps you are not, but you definitely have a good sized chip on your shoulder.

[Cheesehead]

Sad BMW owners with a deep seated need for status:

Why Unhappy Retirees Are Driving BMWs - Business Insider

Be happy, go Lexus!

[Milton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARS We own two BMWs, a Porsche and a Lotus; and by own I mean own, not leased, not financed, but bought and paid for without compromising our lifestyle one iota. Helmet on, back in bunker, waiting for incoming.

No need to be ashamed (or proud) of such possessions. Ultimately we are all alive for a short time, and 'you can't take it with you'. If owning and using fine quality goods gives you pleasure and you can afford the expense, why not?

Some might argue that you are a victim of marketing, and insufficiently aware of the 'hedonic adaptation' phenomenon; but even if that is true, it is not apparent that your tastes/choices hurt anyone else (the 'comments' on this blog entry debate at some length the 'morality' of luxury purchases. The arguments of "Derek" - who suggests that treating oneself to a $109 notebook is entirely indefensible in a world where so many have so little - seem to me to be specious and superficial, but we all have our opinions …).

Of course, if a person goes around gratuitously flaunting their expensive stuff, or rubbishing other people's cheaper possessions, that would be deplorable; but there is no evidence of any such conduct on LARS' part.

I agree with pb4uski: merely because someone prefers nice things doesn't necessarily imply that they are 'showing off'. Sometimes what is presumed to be conspicuous consumption is no more than private enjoyment.

It's also noteworthy that a pricey car/boat/house/watch/whatever may be less expensive for a UHNWI than a cheap alternative is for a middle class person: it's all relative.

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 No link, then. Thanks for the confirmation that you are just slinging CP-USA BS against the wall to see what sticks.

If you think that most college grads are now landing jobs that pay a living wage than good for you. I say they are not.



You stated that changing jobs frequently is going to increase your earnings by 1 million over your career. Good for you. clap clap.

Somebody in a post said they are glad they don't make 40k to 50k and I just pointed out that those 50k wage earners could accumulate wealth by LBYM and investing with no long breaks in employment. Starting in their 20s.

So for the millions of middle-class wage earners who lose their jobs and are not able to quickly find another job with comparable pay they will not build real wealth. Especially with kids.

You sound like a real go-getter. Not everyone will win like you.

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al in Ohio That's bull. Here's a link: Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Per latest US census figures a college grad with a BS earns an average of 67% more annually at age 25 than a 25 year old with only a high degree. Those are median salary figures. And here's the LATEST figures regarding percentile of college grads who were still unemployed after a year of graduation. "Four of every five participants in the National Center for Education Statistics survey graduated in fields outside science, technology, engineering and mathematics -- the so-called STEM fields. No major reported double-digit unemployment numbers. Graduates who majored in engineering had a 4.3 percent unemployment rate, while health care majors had a rate of 2.2 percent. The highest unemployment rate was 9.6 percent, for those with social science degrees." IE: That statement that was reported last year by an April 2012 AP report and got a lot of "spin" had no basis. In fact the statistics show over 90% get good jobs in less than a year that pay almost double what they could hope to have made without that bachelor's degree. The link to that is here: Many Recent College Graduates Have Found Employment Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

What I said is that 20 years ago most college grads were finding good paying jobs. In the 90s. You could pay down a student loan type wages.

But Now a large number of college grads are only landing a job at Starbucks or Target. These are low income jobs that high school grads can also get.

Most of the new jobs being created are lower income type service jobs so I don't see why this is such a surprise.

So if the avg. wage is around $20hr for college grads. That would seem to put millions of college grads in a pretty low wage demographic.

[Ronnieboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 But there's another (more likely IMO) explanation. Since BMW's are seen as status symbols, some status seeking jerks will buy them if they can scrape up the money for a lease. These same people would be jerks if they didn't have the BMW. And to be clear, I'm saying jerks may be attracted to BMWs, not that people who drive BMWs are jerks in general. -ERD50

What I don't get is why all these BMWs don't come with working blinkers

[LoneAspen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnIntentionalRoad There is a certain level of wealth where when you rise above it, you are no longer thinking about how you might be able to spend it all before you die. It just becomes a way of keeping score.

It might not be possible for me to spend that level of wealth before I died, but I'd damn sure give it my best shot.

Yes, Mr. Lamborghini salesman, I'll take TWO of those gold plated Aventadors, and throw in one for yourself, too!