Awkward Wealth

[Andre1969]

Andre, I LOVE your car stories! Just thought you should know that.

Cool, glad you like 'em! As for that lady with the '65 New Yorker, I haven't seen her around the car show circuit in awhile. Shame too, because I thought it was really cool to see a woman so passionate about cars. Usually at these car shows, it's just the men showing off their toys, and most of the women who have tagged along tend to be bored senseless.

 

[eta2020]

I don't drive expensive new cars. I don't even own a watch. But I have my splurges. Why not, I can afford it.

For me it's vintage le-creuset cookware. (I strongly prefer the design of some of the older styles.) So - if I spend $50 on ebay for a saucepan and lid, and it's something I'll use a lot... so be it. Some of my friends don't get it. (The ones who cook a lot get it, though.)

I also splurge .... But not cars or watches. More like on food and wine where we spend substantially more then average family.

 

[W2R]

You have a watch? Luxury! When I grew up we were so poor we couldn't even afford some free time..

J/K, can't resist channeling Monty Python. But, on a more serious note, what do you need a watch for?

I don't like fumbling for my cell phone! It's much more subtle to sneak a glance at my watch when I want to know what time it is.

So then (you ask, I would imagine), why would I want to know the time? The answer is that I like getting home before rush hour, I like getting to places before they close, I like knowing whether it is getting dark due to a looming thunderstorm or simply due to dusk, I like knowing that I have a few more hours until my preferred bedtime, I like knowing how long I spent lifting weights at the gym, I like being able to see if a particular store is so crowded due to the time of day or if maybe something else is going on, I like knowing how long it takes for my coffee machine to brew coffee, and so on. Data.

 

[haha]

I would enjoy a Carrera a lot. But unfortunately I would always be worried that some idiot would be doing assisted parking with her old Taurus trying to make a space to get out.

Other than that, I don't want any identifiable wealth markers, or expensive stuff. A while back IPhones became such robbery bait around here that I now wear a Casio watch to avoid having to pull my phone out. If I am downtown, I duck into a hotel before making or returning a call.

The biggest, surest, and most expensive wealth marker is a well dressed, pretty woman 30-40 years younger than her guy. If I want to guess someone's net worth, that is my main clue. It would be impolite to apply this thinking to an older woman with her young escort.

Ha

 

[brett]

My watch, a Certina with lots of sentimental value,is 39 years old. Just gave away my 17 year old Camry and now only have our 2006 Accord. And I do wear a fair amount if Nautica brand clothing because I like the fit and the quality.

We travel 5-7 months of the year.

Not certain what that makes us in other people's opinions. But we really could care less. Why be so quick to judge others by what they choose to consume.

Live and let live, above all MYOB. Why get your shirt in a knot over what others decide to buy? Life is too short for that nonsense.

 

[REWahoo]

But, on a more serious note, what do you need a watch for?

+1

If you carry a phone a watch is nothing more than male jewelry. Bling is not my thing.

 

[aaronc879]

+1

If you carry a phone a watch is nothing more than male jewelry. Bling is not my thing.

I agree. I haven't worn a watch since I got my first cell phone in 2000.

 

[LoneAspen]

The H1B visa is just one example of how college grads are getting screwed and I see it first hand. 2 workers from India will work 16 hour days keeping wages artificially low so why hire some American college kid who is too expensive.

I see this myself, too, working in Silicon Valley. Many of our full-time employees, and also interns, are Indian. They're very highly educated, and while I'm not privy to their salaries, I suspect many of them are paid lower on average.

And they are willing to work longer hours. In fact, I have to catch myself at times from taking advantage of this. My plate is overflowing with projects, and I've pushed a few to one of my coworkers because he always seems to have time for them.

I now suspect it's not because his plate isn't already full, but rather he's working later hours, and possibly on weekends. I'm not sure if it's cultural, or whether he feels he has to "prove himself", or what. I might pull him aside one day and try to find out how many hours he's really putting in, if he's willing to talk about it. If he's putting in 50/60+ hours a week, then we need to talk to our manager about getting another req open for a FTE rather than taking advantage of somebody.

 

[eta2020]

The biggest, surest, and most expensive wealth marker is a well dressed, pretty woman 30-40 years younger than her guy. If I want to guess someone's net worth, that is my main clue.

Ha

You are absolutely correct

 

[LARS]

The biggest, surest, and most expensive wealth marker is a well dressed, pretty woman 30-40 years younger than her guy. If I want to guess someone's net worth, that is my main clue. It would be impolite to apply this thinking to an older woman with her young escort.

Ha

Disagree. It is the biggest, surest and most expensive form of wealth destruction.

 

[retire2020]

What Kind Of Car Do Millionaires Drive? - ElevenTwo Fund Management

"The research shows an overwhelming majority [86% of the people] that we see driving luxury cars like Mercedes, BMWs, Acuras, Volvo (my personal favorite), and Lexus are not millionaires. Most of society believes that if someone is driving a Porsche, then they are a millionaire, but it’s the exact opposite. If you see someone sitting in a Cadillac at a traffic light there is an 86% chance that they are not a millionaire."

Expensive watch likewise indicates "high earner" but not necessarily "high assets".

How true eta2020! For past 16 years whenever we went out for a walk, my wife would notice a luxury car and say that our neighbors are rich and I would always say that it's a perception. Last May when I was in Vegas(working not gambling) I got a call from my neighbor asking that he urgently needed 7K. He drives Mercedez Benz and his brother across the road drives Porsche. When I asked him why, he said his Uncle had died and he needed money. I said I'll call back and sent my wife to bank. I called him back after half an hour and asked him same questions….different story - missed mortgage payment, loss of consulting etc…That raised doubts in my mind and I asked my wife not to handover the money - It was so close that my neighbor was waiting outside the bank and it was a matter of few minutes but thank god I was saved by asking the same questions again and getting diff answers. His son goes to private school, his wife has never worked where as my kids go to public school and my wife works part time. What a scam!
A month later I ran into my other neighbor and he asked if I was approached for money. It turned out that about five neighbors were approached and three gave him money and are stuck. Meanwhile his brother drives around Porsche, this guy sold his Benz and bought a brand new Nissan Maxima where I still drive 12 and 8 years old cars. His wife was telling my wife that they are planning to send his son to Ivy Leaugue college. My daughter just started her PharmD in state public college five minutes from my home. I wonder how long he has been scamming people!

 

[brewer12345]

+1

If you carry a phone a watch is nothing more than male jewelry. Bling is not my thing.

I beg to differ. I wear a black plastic Casio watch that would never be described as jewelry, especially after 5 years of wear. I wear a watch for lots of reasons, not least of which s that I am often out of cell service range or have the damned thing shut off and need to be able to watch the time. I also sometimes do not want to dig a phone (which may or may not have a charge) out from under several layers of clothing.

 

[rodi]

I got a call from my neighbor asking that he urgently needed 7K. He drives Mercedez Benz and his brother across the road drives Porsche. When I asked him why, he said his Uncle had died and he needed money. I said I'll call back and sent my wife to bank. I called him back after half an hour and asked him same questions….different story - missed mortgage payment, loss of consulting etc…That raised doubts in my mind and I asked my wife not to handover the money -

It takes some serious bravado to try and rip off people you live next to. That will make for some very unpleasant evening strolls or chats over the fence.

Don't most con artists work outside their own neighborhood?

 

[AnIntentionalRoad]

Would someone please shoot this thread and put it out of its misery?

 

[H2ODude]

Would someone please shoot this thread and put it out of its misery?

+1 I'm thinking' it doesn't paint a very complimentary picture of us.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Would someone please shoot this thread and put it out of its misery?

There are some outstanding features of both the forum software, and even our very own eyeballs, that allow us to ignore things we don't want to see.

 

[purplesky]

Some who buy "luxury" goods are snobs. Some are "rich", and some are wannabes, or, as I like to call it, "$30000 millionaires". And, some on the other end of the scale blame "the man" or "the system" for their lack of success.

Rash generalizations are just that, rash, and general...

As for college, and the associated job market, indeed some college graduates should have been taken aside and told that their degree in basket weaving will not be worth the paper it's printed on.

Yes I see so many luxury cars on the road. Some have to be leases or just $700 car payments over 96 months. I think I just heard recently that the avg. car loan is about 7 years.

Yes picking the right degree is important these days. Sad to say you could throw in a english or History degree with that basket weaving. Unless you get a masters and teach. But wait you will need a Doctorates also. 100k later.

 

[Al in Ohio]

Yes but the problem is that a huge number of college grads are now underemployed and earn below a living wage.
Because most of the new jobs being created are low wage service jobs.

If somebody told you back in 1990 that college grads in 2014 on average will only be making 45k would you have been impressed?

In answer to "huge number of college grads are now underemployed": My link and the most recent studies done just within the last few months indicate that is just not so. Like the link to the data show: the VAST MAJORITY are fully employed within their intended majors. The unsubstantiated news bites that state otherwise is vastly overstated. Since you might not have taken trouble to read all that data, what it states is that the current college grad rae of under or un employment is only a few percentage points higher than the average of any age group, but that is a overall percentage of college grads FAR less than half. Not even close to more than 20%.
In answer to your question: "If somebody told you back in 1990 that college grads in 2014 on average will only be making 45k would you have been impressed?"

Ah yes I would. I was an engineering grad and in 1985 when I got my first job (that was also a time of mini recession if you recall) and it took me 9 months after graduating to get a job in my field after taking one that was not in my profession at first (It was a factory technician job at $8/hour which was actually pretty good for a 22 year old back then when HS grads at close to min wage made less than $3-4/hour). Back then after I landed an engineering job (just 6 years before your 1991 time period), I was making a whopping $22,000 salary, which by the way was far better than the average business student with a BA making $16,000 per year. Now I make six figures and did it with modest increase in salary. SO your $45 k figure back in 1991 was in fact a heck of a good salary for most of the country (unless you are living in a HIGH cost of living area like NYC).

For reference the average college grad now can expect about $45k year, but an engineering degree out of school now nets a starting salary of about $65,000 per year.

 

[purplesky]

I see this myself, too, working in Silicon Valley. Many of our full-time employees, and also interns, are Indian. They're very highly educated, and while I'm not privy to their salaries, I suspect many of them are paid lower on average.

And they are willing to work longer hours. In fact, I have to catch myself at times from taking advantage of this. My plate is overflowing with projects, and I've pushed a few to one of my coworkers because he always seems to have time for them.

I now suspect it's not because his plate isn't already full, but rather he's working later hours, and possibly on weekends. I'm not sure if it's cultural, or whether he feels he has to "prove himself", or what. I might pull him aside one day and try to find out how many hours he's really putting in, if he's willing to talk about it. If he's putting in 50/60+ hours a week, then we need to talk to our manager about getting another req open for a FTE rather than taking advantage of somebody.

Yes its kind of ridiculous. Big lobbying money has been spent by the tech companies to keep this visa scam going. Many Americans aren't even aware of it.

I have a community of people from India who all live in big mcmansions right by my neighborhood.
Most are technology workers fresh off the plane. There must be 15 people in one of the houses.

They work like underpaid servants. Because sadly they are.

 

[Andre1969]

Yes I see so many luxury cars on the road. Some have to be leases or just $700 car payments over 96 months. I think I just heard recently that the avg. car loan is about 7 years.

I don't think it's quite that bad yet, but I have heard the average new car loan is something like 66 months.

I see plenty of luxury brands on the roads, but most of what they peddle these days are not what I'd really call luxury cars. The majority of BMWs, for example are the 3-series. I just did a quick Google search, and found leases starting around $339 per month. For comparison, 15 years ago I bought a new 2000 Dodge Intrepid that was $22,389 out the door. It was $2000 down and $347.66 per month, 60 months at 0.9%. About two years ago I bought a leftover 2012 Dodge Ram Hemi for $20,751 out the door. We used my uncle's dying '97 Silverado as a trade and got $1300 and I financed the $19,451 for 5 years at 3.99%, and the payment was around $359 per month.

I was just going to write a check for the truck, but if I financed through them they knocked another $500 off the price. Actually, let me re-phrase that, so I don't sound too one-percenty here. I was planning on writing a check from my HELOC, to pay for that truck! And what I ended up doing was taking their $500 extra incentive, and made a couple months of payments, and then used the HELOC to pay it off.

Anyway, back to BMW's...looks like a 5-series starts around $539 per month to lease. But if you want to really show off, you need a 7-series sedan, which starts at $909 a month, or go topless with a 6-series convertible, which starts around $1079 per month.

I'm sure better deals can be found. I just googled "BMW Lease" and looked at the first page that easily navigated to some figures.

BMWs and Benzes also don't tend to "age", for lack of a better word, like most cars. When a new style comes out, it doesn't seem to be a vast departure from the previous model, in style. And they tend to not be what I'd call "high style" or "flash in the pan", so in a few years they don't go out of style. Therefore, it's easy to go get a used one, and many of the uninformed will simply see that little blue spinning propeller or the snooty star badge and not realize that it might be a ten year old car.

But, in general, car styles don't change as often as they used to, so I guess the same would hold true for more plebian, everyday cars as well. A well-maintained 10 year old car doesn't look all that out of place compared to the current models.

 

[purplesky]

In answer to "huge number of college grads are now underemployed": My link and the most recent studies done just within the last few months indicate that is just not so. Like the link to the data show: the VAST MAJORITY are fully employed within their intended majors. The unsubstantiated news bites that state otherwise is vastly overstated. Since you might not have taken trouble to read all that data, what it states is that the current college grad rae of under or un employment is only a few percentage points higher than the average of any age group, but that is a overall percentage of college grads FAR less than half. Not even close to more than 20%.
In answer to your question: "If somebody told you back in 1990 that college grads in 2014 on average will only be making 45k would you have been impressed?"

Ah yes I would. I was an engineering grad and in 1985 when I got my first job (that was also a time of mini recession if you recall) and it took me 9 months after graduating to get a job in my field after taking one that was not in my profession at first (It was a factory technician job at $8/hour which was actually pretty good for a 22 year old back then when HS grads at close to min wage made less than $3-4/hour). Back then after I landed an engineering job (just 6 years before your 1991 time period), I was making a whopping $22,000 salary, which by the way was far better than the average business student with a BA making $16,000 per year. Now I make six figures and did it with modest increase in salary. SO your $45 k figure back in 1991 was in fact a heck of a good salary for most of the country (unless you are living in a HIGH cost of living area like NYC).

For reference the average college grad now can expect about $45k year, but an engineering degree out of school now nets a starting salary of about $65,000 per year.

Well yes as a engineer you are golden .

This whole discussion about wages started because somebody mentioned they do very well as a job hopper or job freelancer. Which I imagine many people can pull off and make big money with the right skills in demand.

But for many people in their 20s changing jobs often throughout their working careers is going to have a real negative effect on their wages and saving if they have long gaps in-between jobs. The millionaire next door couldn't afford to change jobs every 4 years at his or her pay level and just start over. So I don't know.

I remember in the 90s everybody I knew with a 4 year degree in anything was getting a job that paid pretty well.

This economy is just different. Corporate America is not investing in America in any major way. Its all about stock buybacks. No real job creation. No real wage increases.

This recovery from the recession is the first of 10 recoveries since WW2 that hasn't been led by construction. According to Alan Greenspan.

So I don't know. It just seems like many wrong college degree millennials are going to be stuck in low wage type jobs for a long time with big student loan debt.

These are people that are bad at math. Its not really funny though.

Imagine having 100k in student loan debt at age 25 making no real money in a very weak labor market.

That is some awkward debt.

 

[purplesky]

I don't think it's quite that bad yet, but I have heard the average new car loan is something like 66 months.

I see plenty of luxury brands on the roads, but most of what they peddle these days are not what I'd really call luxury cars. The majority of BMWs, for example are the 3-series. I just did a quick Google search, and found leases starting around $339 per month. For comparison, 15 years ago I bought a new 2000 Dodge Intrepid that was $22,389 out the door. It was $2000 down and $347.66 per month, 60 months at 0.9%. About two years ago I bought a leftover 2012 Dodge Ram Hemi for $20,751 out the door. We used my uncle's dying '97 Silverado as a trade and got $1300 and I financed the $19,451 for 5 years at 3.99%, and the payment was around $359 per month.

I was just going to write a check for the truck, but if I financed through them they knocked another $500 off the price. Actually, let me re-phrase that, so I don't sound too one-percenty here. I was planning on writing a check from my HELOC, to pay for that truck! And what I ended up doing was taking their $500 extra incentive, and made a couple months of payments, and then used the HELOC to pay it off.

Anyway, back to BMW's...looks like a 5-series starts around $539 per month to lease. But if you want to really show off, you need a 7-series sedan, which starts at $909 a month, or go topless with a 6-series convertible, which starts around $1079 per month.

I'm sure better deals can be found. I just googled "BMW Lease" and looked at the first page that easily navigated to some figures.

BMWs and Benzes also don't tend to "age", for lack of a better word, like most cars. When a new style comes out, it doesn't seem to be a vast departure from the previous model, in style. And they tend to not be what I'd call "high style" or "flash in the pan", so in a few years they don't go out of style. Therefore, it's easy to go get a used one, and many of the uninformed will simply see that little blue spinning propeller or the snooty star badge and not realize that it might be a ten year old car.

But, in general, car styles don't change as often as they used to, so I guess the same would hold true for more plebian, everyday cars as well. A well-maintained 10 year old car doesn't look all that out of place compared to the current models.

I saw a brand new beautiful white 5 series the other day on the highway.
Yes I see a lot of 3 series.

I love this M3.

Out of my price range for now. This would be fun to take to a track.

BMWs never go out of style.

 

[eta2020]

Yes its kind of ridiculous. Big lobbying money has been spent by the tech companies to keep this visa scam going. Many Americans aren't even aware of it.

I have a community of people from India who all live in big mcmansions right by my neighborhood.
Most are technology workers fresh off the plane. There must be 15 people in one of the houses.

They work like underpaid servants. Because sadly they are.

You are kidding yourself. Indian community in USA is one of the wealthiest and best educated population ....if not THE wealthiest.

Google for yourself. I will not be pointing you to numerous sources...

 

[aaronc879]

You are kidding yourself. Indian community in USA is one of the wealthiest and best educated population ....if not THE wealthiest.

Google for yourself. I will not be pointing you to numerous sources...

This seems to back up your claim: List of ethnic groups in the United States by household income - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[bmcgonig]

You are kidding yourself. Indian community in USA is one of the wealthiest and best educated population ....if not THE wealthiest.

Google for yourself. I will not be pointing you to numerous sources...

The Indian tech guys that are here on temporary visas are the ones that purple is probably talking about. They make about half of what their US counterparts ( or those with H1s) make. Hi tech companies will outsource some of their work to companies like Wipro or HCL. Then Wipro/HCL will bring them in on temp visas to on site at the company who did the outsourcing. The upshot is that these young Indian guys are working side by side their coworkers making 1/2 as much. They're happy to do it as they would make much less in India.


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