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Old 06-09-2018, 08:39 AM   #21
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Yes....but the POD appears to have acted the same as the POA I had.
No relationship.

If your parents account had you listed as a POD beneficiary, then it should have bypassed probate.
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:02 AM   #22
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My sister and I were POD on my Dad's bank account. I went in with the death certificate and the copy of the POD paperwork and 15 minutes later I had a check for each of us. The balance was $16,000 so it was large but not anything unusual.

Katsmeow, I'm sorry you are running into roadblocks with this. We take care of things like PODs in advance so that the process can be as smooth as possible in a difficult time.

When my Dad died he no longer owned any property. He had a checking account, an IRA and a small Navy life insurance policy from 1947. Everything had a beneficiary or POD so it all was easy to wrap up.

I hope the rest of this is easier for you.
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:34 AM   #23
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I just went through a very similar case last year. (Like you I live in Texas too) I was the sole heir and POD on all accounts. ZERO problems with all the POD accounts and w/o the need for probate. I just walked in the different banks with the account numbers, originals of the death certificate and walked out with cashier checks in less than an hour in each case. Of course I already knew I was listed as POD on those accounts. Dollar amounts didn't seem to matter either. A coupe I even handled VIA emails and phone calls since the dollar amounts were smaller (<100k) per account. The one IRA he had was a bit of a problem because of the tax issues and no brick and mortar offices were available, but that too went pretty well except it took about 6 weeks. Most banks were very helpful and easy to deal with.

You may run into some problems if the accounts exceed the Federal Inheritance Tax exemption limits.

Only thing I really needed a probate for was to sell the house.

PM me if you have questions .
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:54 AM   #24
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I couldn't find much of anything regarding Texas POD limits with some searching.

It would be useful for the OP to be a bit more specific about the amount and location.
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Old 06-09-2018, 03:34 PM   #25
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On the issue of the bank not wanting to let go of the money since they have it there. The irony is that I am a customer of the bank already. The money wasn't leaving the bank! It was staying there.

Yes, this is in Texas. I do understand that the bank won't recognize me as executor until I am appointed. That isn't an issue for me. For example, I didn't ask to take custody of the items in my mom's safety deposit box (I was recently in it and there is nothing of great value in it so I am in no hurry). But, the issue with the POD checking account was different. To be clear if the amount in it had been $1 under their limit they would have transferred the money to me. Because it was a little more they wouldn't. (And, no this is not a huge estate.).

Again, I know I have to do some probate things because I need to be able to sell the house. I don't mind doing them. But there are expenses related to the house so it would be nice to have the money so I could pay them from that money rather than having to front them out of my own cash. I am sure it will work out, but just annoying.
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Old 06-09-2018, 04:09 PM   #26
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On the issue of the bank not wanting to let go of the money since they have it there. The irony is that I am a customer of the bank already. The money wasn't leaving the bank! It was staying there.

Yes, this is in Texas. I do understand that the bank won't recognize me as executor until I am appointed. That isn't an issue for me. For example, I didn't ask to take custody of the items in my mom's safety deposit box (I was recently in it and there is nothing of great value in it so I am in no hurry). But, the issue with the POD checking account was different. To be clear if the amount in it had been $1 under their limit they would have transferred the money to me. Because it was a little more they wouldn't. (And, no this is not a huge estate.).

Again, I know I have to do some probate things because I need to be able to sell the house. I don't mind doing them. But there are expenses related to the house so it would be nice to have the money so I could pay them from that money rather than having to front them out of my own cash. I am sure it will work out, but just annoying.
The POD has nothing to do with being executor. As you are the beneficiary, it goes to you independent of any will and probate.
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Old 06-09-2018, 04:34 PM   #27
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Many states have a dollar amount under which standard probate is not needed, but I've never heard of a bank having its own limit for POD. I've seen irrational policies like that go into effect shortly after a bank has been burned by some unusual situation, and their worker bees then follow the new dictate issued from On High. That the OP is already known to the same bank makes this situation all the more absurd. Once I had finally the POD money I'd take my accounts elsewhere.
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Old 06-09-2018, 05:12 PM   #28
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All the POD's or TOD's (Transfer on death) I have ever seen or signed had no mention of $$$ limits.
I never knew there was such a thing.

All this talk made me check with Ally.com via chat, and I gave an example of an account with $111K in it. They said it would transfer on POD without probate, as long as it was not joint. (because joint owner gets it all).
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Old 06-09-2018, 06:44 PM   #29
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The POD has nothing to do with being executor. As you are the beneficiary, it goes to you independent of any will and probate.
I know this. I was responding to another post which indicated I wouldn't be recognized as executor until appointed by the court. For example, USPS doesn't allow the address of the deceased to be changed unless you go in and show you are appointed executor. I agree that is a totally different issue than the POD. The only relevance is that the insistence on probate by the bank is causing the delay.

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Many states have a dollar amount under which standard probate is not needed, but I've never heard of a bank having its own limit for POD.
Yes, the bank would also be satisfied if I did a small estate affidavit. If the bank account isn't included the amount of the estate I could probably do that. I don't know if that would work though given the existence of the account and given that I have a house I need to transfer. One more thing to discuss with the attorney/
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Old 06-09-2018, 06:57 PM   #30
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I’m also an attorney and administered estates all my working years. Something is nuts here. Probate or a small estate affidavit is completely irrelevant to your situation. Are they questioning the POD designation or its validity? I would speak to the attorneys for the bank or at least the head of commercial banking. Somebody doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
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Old 06-09-2018, 08:20 PM   #31
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I’m also an attorney and administered estates all my working years. Something is nuts here. Probate or a small estate affidavit is completely irrelevant to your situation. Are they questioning the POD designation or its validity? I would speak to the attorneys for the bank or at least the head of commercial banking. Somebody doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
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No, they are not questioning the POD. He said that if it was below a certain amount they would do it, but won't do it because it is over the amount. Of course, maybe there is some issue which he didn't express to me.

The whole thing was odd. I went in and spoke to the bank officer, thinking this would be no big deal. While I was acting as POA for my mom the bank had told me that it was POD to me (I didn't review it myself).

Anyway, the officer read stuff on his monitor and said there was something about an affidavit so he was going to call the back office. He got someone there on the phone in front of me. I could only hear his side of the conversation but he said that yes he had read what was there (on his screen) but he wanted clarification.

He then got off the phone and said that I need either a small estates affidavit, or a judgment (I don't recall the detail as I was so surprised) or to be in probate. All of that dumbfounded me. If he had said there was some issue with the POD designation but he volunteered that this was simply due to amount (maybe he is all wet -- I don't know). Since this isn't my area of law I decided to simply defer everything until I talk with the attorney who is going to be helping me with all this (which I thought was going to be very minimal help since my mom's estate is not that large and I mostly just need to make sure that I do what I need to do so I can sell the house). Most of the rest of it passes (or should) outside the estate. There is a small IRA and life insurance policy and I am beneficiary on both.
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:42 PM   #32
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I guessing this is a very small local bank, and they figure OP is too shy to put up a fuss, or make noise and will quietly go away.
The bank should be able to produce the POD, so OP can read it, and see exactly where does it say the bank gets to ignore it once the account is over $xxxx.

Ally bank has no issue (my earlier post) with an account of $111,000.oo so how small is too large for this weird bank ?
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:22 PM   #33
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Just look it up... ways to AVOID probate include...


Payable-on-death designations for bank accounts

In Texas, you can add a "payable-on-death" (POD) designation to bank accounts such as savings accounts or certificates of deposit. You still control all the money in the account -- your POD beneficiary has no rights to the money, and you can spend it all if you want. At your death, the beneficiary can claim the money directly from the bank, without probate court proceedings.





https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...ate-31945.html
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:19 AM   #34
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I guessing this is a very small local bank, and they figure OP is too shy to put up a fuss, or make noise and will quietly go away.
The bank should be able to produce the POD, so OP can read it, and see exactly where does it say the bank gets to ignore it once the account is over $xxxx.

Ally bank has no issue (my earlier post) with an account of $111,000.oo so how small is too large for this weird bank ?
Actually not at all. This is a major large national bank. I don't really want to say right now who it is in case this is easily resolved or it was just a clueless bank officer who didn't explain the situation properly to the "back office." Or maybe there is some issue that he didn't explain to me.

Because this is such a large bank I lean toward thinking that there is simply something confused here.
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Old 06-10-2018, 06:51 AM   #35
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No, they are not questioning the POD. He said that if it was below a certain amount they would do it, but won't do it because it is over the amount. Of course, maybe there is some issue which he didn't express to me.
I've closed POD account(s) here in Texas that were in excess of 250k without any questions. I just walked into the bank with a copy of his recent monthly statements (which also showed me as POD) and his death certificate. No appointments, no calls ahead of time, just walked in an talked to the first available person. They all wanted two forms of my identification, which I had with me. They checked a few things on their computers, I signed a paper or two and they gave me a cashiers checks. I did this at the local branches of the banks without any problems. It was that simple for the ones I did. I will say the bigger name banks seemed to be the easiest and quickest to deal with. BTW, I didn't have any of my personal accounts at those banks...
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Old 06-10-2018, 07:18 AM   #36
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Agree with others... this is nuts. I would escalate as needed and insist on them providing a citation to a regulation or statute that requires more than a valid POD and death certificate. If they don't produce it then tell them that they are illegally withholding your money and that you will file a complaint with banking regulators and may sue them and request puntative damages. IOW, I would be a prick and get nasty with them since they are being unreasonable.

I would also reconsider my existing customer relationship with them depending on their response.
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Old 06-10-2018, 07:48 AM   #37
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Try a different branch? Different people often give different answers.
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Old 06-10-2018, 07:48 AM   #38
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Agree with others... this is nuts. I would escalate as needed and insist on them providing a citation to a regulation or statute that requires more than a valid POD and death certificate. If they don't produce it then tell them that they are illegally withholding your money and that you will file a complaint with banking regulators and may sue them and request puntative damages. IOW, I would be a prick and get nasty with them since they are being unreasonable.

I would also reconsider my existing customer relationship with them depending on their response.

A question is this in a state that still has an inheritance/estate tax, with significantly lower limits than the federal limits?
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Old 06-10-2018, 07:51 AM   #39
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I don't see why that would matter.... presumably the amount involved is under the FDIC limit of $250k so it would be far under any state inheritance tax limit.
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Old 06-10-2018, 08:27 AM   #40
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I don't see why that would matter.... presumably the amount involved is under the FDIC limit of $250k so it would be far under any state inheritance tax limit.
Not true. PA has an inheritance tax on far smaller amounts. When DD passed away, I had to pay PA inheritance tax for accounts far smaller than the FDIC $250K limit.

However, that did not prevent accounts being paid out using POD titling. The tax had to be paid later.
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