Bank POD Issue

[MRG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by copyright1997reloaded Not true. PA has an inheritance tax on far smaller amounts. When DD passed away, I had to pay PA inheritance tax for accounts far smaller than the FDIC $250K limit. However, that did not prevent accounts being paid out using POD titling. The tax had to be paid later.

Right PA's estate tax starts at a dollar.

My DF passed in PA and his TOD was executed promptly. However the state of PA locked the account that received the funds! Sadly there was much more in that account than my DF's estate.

[Souschef]

Quote:

Originally Posted by copyright1997reloaded Not true. PA has an inheritance tax on far smaller amounts. When DD passed away, I had to pay PA inheritance tax for accounts far smaller than the FDIC $250K limit. However, that did not prevent accounts being paid out using POD titling. The tax had to be paid later.

Very true.When my MIL passed, my wife got the 50K she had in PNC bank right away. However, we had to pay estate tax on it.
A small part of me wanted to tell them I would not pay it as I lived in CA and had nothing in PA. However, it would have meant looking over my shoulder worrying about how they would come after us.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meierlde A question is this in a state that still has an inheritance/estate tax, with significantly lower limits than the federal limits?

Texas. No estate tax.

[ncbill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski Agree with others... this is nuts. I would escalate as needed and insist on them providing a citation to a regulation or statute that requires more than a valid POD and death certificate. If they don't produce it then tell them that they are illegally withholding your money and that you will file a complaint with banking regulators and may sue them and request puntative damages. IOW, I would be a prick and get nasty with them since they are being unreasonable. I would also reconsider my existing customer relationship with them depending on their response.

Probably a little harsh.

Rather than continue to argue with the retail side, I'm sure a demand letter from the OP's attorney to theirs will be sufficient.

[Sunset]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsmeow Actually not at all. This is a major large national bank. I don't really want to say right now who it is in case this is easily resolved or it was just a clueless bank officer who didn't explain the situation properly to the "back office." Or maybe there is some issue that he didn't explain to me. Because this is such a large bank I lean toward thinking that there is simply something confused here.

Well this makes it worse for everyone else, if the situation is not simply some clueless employees, as it will/could affect lots of people.

I understand you don't want to badmouth them, but sometimes it's the actual social embarrassment that causes the situations to be corrected quickly.

[Sunset]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncbill Probably a little harsh. Rather than continue to argue with the retail side, I'm sure a demand letter from the OP's attorney to theirs will be sufficient.

Sure, it might, and it will only cost $100 of the lawyer's billable time, for something that should have been done by the bank employee.

[pb4uski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncbill Probably a little harsh. Rather than continue to argue with the retail side, I'm sure a demand letter from the OP's attorney to theirs will be sufficient.

I dunno... if the OP determines that the bank is in the wrong, I think a complaint to bankig regulators will be more effective than a demand letter from their attorney... the latter they can just thumb their noses up at, the former they would likely not ignore. Besides, if they are in the wrong, then harsh is deserved.

[nwsteve]

Pure speculation here, but the bank's antics and being a "major national bank", makes want to put money on Wells Fargo as the bank. All these behaviors fit right in.
My runner-up is US Bank

[Texas Proud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 Texas. No estate tax.

That in interesting... I actually did not know this...


Back in the early 80s I did estate tax work and they had one that was complicated... but then they decided to make it very simple... the US estate tax had a maximum state tax deduction... Texas just made it that amount!!! Easy peasy....


I have watched the US exemption amount go up and down, but never did pay attention to Texas... do you know when they got rid of it?

[Clone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsmeow Actually not at all. This is a major large national bank. I don't really want to say right now who it is in case this is easily resolved or it was just a clueless bank officer who didn't explain the situation properly to the "back office." Or maybe there is some issue that he didn't explain to me. Because this is such a large bank I lean toward thinking that there is simply something confused here.

I am going to go out on a limb here.


Welcome to Wells Fargo!!


Time to put your lawyer skills to work, Either you, or your lawyer, needs to put them on notice that 'this aggression will not stand!!' This is not a probate issue, this is just there way of doing business. It is like trying to cancel a self-renewing Time-Warner book of the month club! They are making it difficult and obscure to figure out what is required for them to cut the money loose, and they are not willing to identify the steps required. It should not be your job to un-screw their screwed up mess!


If they tell you to calm down- just say- "Calmer than you are..."


Not that I have much of an opinion about Wells Fargo...

[Souschef]

Sometimes it is the bank, not the system. I once needed a medallion guarantee on a document. I went to W-F, my primary bank, and the branch had to call their legal department.

They said I would have to come in with a statement showing how much i had in the account and jump through some other hoops.
I walked across the parking lot to a local bank where I also have an account, and they did it with no problems.

[GalaxyBoy]

There has to be "the rest of the story" that hasn't come to light yet. OP, please follow up and let us know how this turns out.

I'm executor of DF's estate and I've had a few issues with the local-yokel, small-town bank where it was the branch tellers/managers who simply didn't know what they were talking about. Maybe the POD wasn't set up correctly. Maybe the people contacted so far don't understand the requirements for POD. But who knows? could be anything.

[Teacher Terry]

When my friend died they quit depositing his pension check into his wives account but refused to deposit her small survivor pension into the same account. I needed that 250/month to complete her nursing home bill. They insisted on mailing it to their previous address. It was Wells Fargo of course and they were totally incompetent. Every branch told a different story. Had me fill out forms etc and kept mailing checks that I couldn’t receive. Finally I went to a branch where the big wig was a woman and said I am not leaving until you resolve this today. I was there for hours but she did.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud That in interesting... I actually did not know this... Back in the early 80s I did estate tax work and they had one that was complicated... but then they decided to make it very simple... the US estate tax had a maximum state tax deduction... Texas just made it that amount!!! Easy peasy.... I have watched the US exemption amount go up and down, but never did pay attention to Texas... do you know when they got rid of it?

Just to be clear there is no state estate tax in Texas, you are still subject to Federal. I don’t know when things changed. https://www.legalconsumer.com/inheri...opicID=4&ST=TX

I do seem to vaguely remember a dispute between TX and CA over Howard Hughes’ estate taxes in the 70s......

It looks like any “pick up” TX took from owed federal estate taxes went away in 2005. https://www.thebalance.com/does-texa...te-tax-3505001

[Katsmeow]

I am not going to answer bank by bank which bank it is. But, since several people have thought Wells Fargo I will say that it is not. Actually that is one bank I would not do business with.

My guesses as to what is going on:

1. Bank officer totally missed the fact that I said the account was payable on death to me and looked up the procedure for someone simply claiming to be an heir. If that is the case, then he made an error and explained the situation wrong to the back office. But, he gave the instructions that would apply if the bank account is not POD. I did say payable on death several times. He mentioned that the POA ended at death (I told him I knew that). But, maybe he was a newish person at the bank and just didn't pay attention to the POD part of it (hard for me to believe since I said it several times but...)

2. There is something wrong with the POD. When I went in and started acting as POA I explicitly asked the bank officer (different person) if the account was payable on death to me (as my mom told me) and she said it was. So for there to be something wrong with the POD then she would have to have been wrong. If there is something wrong with it and there is no effective POD clause that wouldn't be a big issue. I am the sole heir under my mom's will. So, this would add time but not be a big issue.

3. There is something else going on (or the officer wrongly thinks there is when there isn't) and, for whatever reason, the bank officer didn't tell me. I have no reason to think there is but I guess anything is possible.

Tomorrow if I get time after our move I will go to the local branch near our new home and address the issue. It is not the same one I visited before and is in a much more, well, upscale area. I would like to at least get clarification before I speak with the attorney on Tuesday.

[Texas Proud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 Just to be clear there is no state estate tax in Texas, you are still subject to Federal. I don’t know when things changed. https://www.legalconsumer.com/inheri...opicID=4&ST=TX I do seem to vaguely remember a dispute between TX and CA over Howard Hughes’ estate taxes in the 70s...... It looks like any “pick up” TX took from owed federal estate taxes went away in 2005. https://www.thebalance.com/does-texa...te-tax-3505001

Thanks.... looks like it went away after the Fed gvmt stopped allowing a state deduction....

[Sunset]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsmeow I am not going to answer bank by bank which bank it is. But, since several people have thought Wells Fargo I will say that it is not...... . .....

I am interested in following this issue, as now it is even more likely that I have that bank, since I also don't have Wells Fargo

Wish you the best with your trip to the different local branch.

[marko]

As parents age, this story demonstrates a good reason to create joint accounts with them. Then you can do whatever you want.

AFAIK, probate comes into play when the deceased total assets are above a certain amount. In Mass the amount is around $4K.

[Sunset]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko As parents age, this story demonstrates a good reason to create joint accounts with them. Then you can do whatever you want. AFAIK, probate comes into play when the deceased total assets are above a certain amount. In Mass the amount is around $4K.

Are you saying with POD / TOD a bank account with more than $4K in MASS , does not get transferred until probate is done ?

Once probated, what does the bank do, considering the WILL may split money up differently than the POD / TOD, which one wins ??

[gauss]

I interpreted Marko's comment to be that the "small estate" exemption amount is $4k in Mass to avoid a full probate and that POD/TOD would still bypass probate.