Being worth more at the end than the start

[NW-Bound]

It's more fun when you own individual stocks. MFs usually move less than 1% a day, particularly balanced funds. Stocks move 4-5% a day, sometimes 10% for no apparent reasons.

Right now, a mining company I have is down 4%. Another electronic component maker is up 4%. No reasons at all.

Sometimes, I can make sense out of it when looking at the industrial groups they are in. An entire sector can go up or down, driven by some economic or political news. Often, it appears to be just random.

I want to see these movements to be able to jump in/out if and when I can make sense out of it.

[HadEnuff]

I'm pretty sure that if my nestegg were to grow in retirement, I'd just up my spending. I'm new to the idea of just living off SS and my nut, so I'm in the "very cautious" stage.

I suspect that should I become comfortable in thinking that I won't run out of money, I'll become more indulgent of my less moderate desires, when it comes to spending on my toys.

I could certainly use a few more fishing rods.

[walkinwood]

This article by Wade Pfau may be of interest to you. He compares ending portfolio values, average spending, spending declines at 90 percentile, median and 10 percentile portfolio returns.

Forbes Welcome

[LRDave]

Despite many of the comments here, I'm going to feel as if I've failed if I have as much or more as when I started compared to when I lay down for my dirt nap. I should've retired sooner or given more away near the end.

[2017ish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRDave Despite many of the comments here, I'm going to feel as if I've failed if I have as much or more as when I started compared to when I lay down for my dirt nap. I should've retired sooner or given more away near the end.

That's us as well. (Retiring soon, kids all highly educated on our tab with great jobs and apparently great mates--time for us to make up for lost opportunities!!)

[Hermit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HadEnuff I'm pretty sure that if my nestegg were to grow in retirement, I'd just up my spending. I'm new to the idea of just living off SS and my nut, so I'm in the "very cautious" stage. I suspect that should I become comfortable in thinking that I won't run out of money, I'll become more indulgent of my less moderate desires, when it comes to spending on my toys. I could certainly use a few more fishing rods trips.

I thought I would help you out in proper "spend more" thinking!

[Alan]

We have also been very fortunate with our investment returns since ER'ing 7 years ago plus we have pensions between us that will cover all our needs once the last one (SS) comes on stream at age 70.

Our son has said recently that he plans to move to the UK this year so we have told him that we will buy him a house so he gets some of his inheritance early. Our daughter, who is extremely well off, has told us that she is delighted with that idea and doesn't want to receive any sort of equal payment, but we'll just tot up what we end up giving our son and make sure she gets an equal share eventually.

[Danmar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Being an active investor, even if I had 10 times the money I do now, I would still look at my stash daily. I do not trade daily, but I need to know what my stocks are doing.

I look at it several times a day. Habit I guess. Haven't traded in a year though.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danmar I look at it several times a day. Habit I guess. Haven't traded in a year though.

As I mentioned, I constantly look for opportunities. I only catch one once in a blue moon, and then the trades are usually small. Still, it's a game I enjoy playing. My covered-call options have made me 1% of portfolio this year. Not shabby when one is talking about living off a 3 or 4% WR.

Back on speaking of dying rich, it is not a problem I worry about.

I will continue to help out my children from time to time, like giving my daughter the cash for 20% down on her first home in the past. It will not be anything in the 6 figures though. I cannot be sure that I will be that "rich", despite whatever FIRECalc says.

And then, my children are only 31 and 27. They need to know to manage their finance first, else they would just waste the money that I have been saving. That may mean that by the time we croak they may be sufficiently well off, and that what I leave them is nice but not essential to their survival. That's my goal.

Spending money is never hard. People learn it extremely fast, particularly when there are plenty of people who are willing to "help". Not having enough money or getting yourself in a financial corner, now that's something I never faced in my life even when a poor college student, and there's no intention to experience that now.

[HadEnuff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRDave Despite many of the comments here, I'm going to feel as if I've failed if I have as much or more as when I started compared to when I lay down for my dirt nap. I should've retired sooner or given more away near the end.

I'm inclined to believe that you won't feel much of anything at that point.

[kcowan]

I suppose this is where people who anticipate an afterlife will have more conviction about reducing taxes that their estates will pay. Us, we believe that our heirs will figure it out if LTC costs leave anything.

[Car-Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcowan I we believe that our heirs will figure it out if LTC costs leave anything.

The best thing about LTC (Long Term Care) facilities cost, is your stay there is "usually" short lived.

[brett]

Five years in. Spending is on track although the mix is different than we anticipated. Fixed assets, real estate, is now zero. Total assets are up very nicely, adjusted for inflation. Some income disappears this year so we anticipate that asset growth will remain positive but will be smaller.

We did not anticipate this. Our estimates on growth were low, our spending estimate had a good margin of error built in to it. I suspect that we will give the current situation another year and then re-visit our plans.

[Danmar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound As I mentioned, I constantly look for opportunities. I only catch one once in a blue moon, and then the trades are usually small. Still, it's a game I enjoy playing. My covered-call options have made me 1% of portfolio this year. Not shabby when one is talking about living off a 3 or 4% WR. Back on speaking of dying rich, it is not a problem I worry about. I will continue to help out my children from time to time, like giving my daughter the cash for 20% down on her first home in the past. It will not be anything in the 6 figures though. I cannot be sure that I will be that "rich", despite whatever FIRECalc says. And then, my children are only 31 and 27. They need to know to manage their finance first, else they would just waste the money that I have been saving. That may mean that by the time we croak they may be sufficiently well off, and that what I leave them is nice but not essential to their survival. That's my goal. Spending money is never hard. People learn it extremely fast, particularly when there are plenty of people who are willing to "help". Not having enough money or getting yourself in a financial corner, now that's something I never faced in my life even when a poor college student, and there's no intention to experience that now.

I have similar thoughts. I don't "worry" about dying rich as one might about dying destitute. But I am constantly thinking about maximizing the "utility" or "satisfaction", or "enjoyment" that could come from our assets. Not just for us but for my heirs and others that could benefit.

[DawgMan]

Here lies the dilemma. While no wrong/right answer, I will throw out my 2 cents... raised solid middle class, I was given the opportunity to go to college (1st in family to graduate college). Along the way, I worked shoveling snow/cutting grass/bus boy/fri cook/ass manager/worked all thru college/took 1st job out of college thought I was rich, then made an educated risk too a self employed lucrative career today. My dad (parents divorced at young age) taught me frugality/LBYM mentality and I was always financially responsible for something since age 14. He did pay my college tuition so no debt, but I covered my living expenses. Fast forward today... while I have significantly surpassed my dad in NW and income, odds are my 4 kids will not surpass my income/NW thru their own efforts. I am not trying to sound pompous, but I have been very fortunate and I think most of us who are from this generation (I'm 52) have lived in the most prosperous generation in almost 100 yrs and the days of doing better than the previous generation (as I and maybe many of you did) are most likely reset now. I give all that background because in my case, I want to 1) make sure I am never a financial burden to my kids, 2) want to pay for their college eduacation so they have no debt when graduate (2 out/2 in), 3) spend my RE $ (and today $$... at least 3 yrs away from RE) doing experiences with my family, 4) be selective in when/how to financially support my kids. I want my kids to have a financial (and other) "tool kit" to do life. There are valuable life lessons out there that only make you stronger if you do them yourself. In my humble opinion, there is a fine line between enabling and helping your kids/family financially. If in the end, I have a bucket of $$, so be it. At that point I hope/trust my kids have the tool kit so it will not be wasted away. Just my. 2 cents.

[RobLJ]

Personally, I don't like the idea of dying with 2-4x the initial nut (inflation based), based on a slavish adherence to the 4% rule (or whatever the rate).
I prefer as time goes on, to gift to the yewts, the grandchild, or elsewhere to distribute some of the swag--essentially recalculating the distribution, probably after a bear market.
Your solution may differ, but it seems a bit like Scrooge McDuck.

[street]

Thanks and some very interesting strategies and thoughts on the subject. Not saying I would want more at death then what I started with it is a real possibility of it happening. In the first 8 months of my retirement I'm up 4% on my total portfolio. I can live on 1.4% on my portfolio so if that would be the case for the next 20 plus years there would be more at the end. I will need a few more years to actually see what and how things work out.

[CardsFan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobLJ I prefer as time goes on, to gift to the yewts, the grandchild, or elsewhere to distribute some of the swag--essentially recalculating the distribution, probably after a bear market.

I this a "Cousin Vinnie" reference?