Beyond FI but before RE - Increase experience spending?

[Ready]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski While you don't mind the work situation right now, what if every day could be a Saturday?

I don't like Saturdays at all. Everything is crowded on the weekends and too chaotic. I can't wait for Monday to roll around so everyone goes back to work and gets out of my way. And that's true for me even though I still work part time.

[Walt34]

Once in a blue moon I or DW will buy a lottery ticket for the entertainment value of a day or two of daydreams, "What would we do if...."

We finally concluded that we probably wouldn't do much differently and would end up giving most of it away, keeping enough to pay for in-home LTC and maybe replacing vehicles a little more often, say every five years instead of wearing them out. But she would see to it that the grandnieces and grandnephews were spoiled rotten.

But it would be fun to do something like charter an airliner and fly the entire family to Hawaii for a vacation in February!

[kcowan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolau So was it you, Danmar or was it Sophie Tucker who said "I've been rich and I've been poor. Rich is better"?

I think the thing with Danmar is that his pattern was well-developed before the riches came upon him. So he is a regular guy who is thankful rather than being one who thinks he walks on water.

Although he is a fellow Canuck, I have never met him but I know I would like him!

(Danmar's story:
He worked at a bank in Toronto and lived in a nice home.
He bought a cottage in Muskoka (Doesn't everyone?).
He retired.
He decided that living in Alberta, he would pay much less in taxes. So he bought a place in Canmore, one of the most beautiful places where you can own property in the mountains. He downsized Toronto to a condo (Pied a terre) around that time.
He decided that winters can get a bit much even in Canmore so bought a place in Arizona.)

Pretty simple evolution and not at all pretentious!

[Meadbh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcowan I think the thing with Danmar is that his pattern was well-developed before the riches came upon him. So he is a regular guy who is thankful rather than being one who thinks he walks on water. Although he is a fellow Canuck, I have never met him but I know I would like him!

+1
Danmar sounds like a nice normal Canadian who worked hard and had great career success working up to the C-suite of one of Canada's big six profitable (stable and boring) banks. Would love to have a beer with him sometime.

[DrRoy]

I just saw that the as revised flight plan for Apollo 13 is going up for auction on July 20. You can buy it for me.

[DawgMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toocold DW and I are mid 40s. We live in a LCOL upper midwest town, have our house paid off, and live off of $60k a year. This amount is plenty for us to live a very comfortable, happy "upper middle class" life. I make a high income, and with recent run ups on my company's stock price, I'll be making mid-to-upper mid 6 figures over the next several years. So as I drink my coffee this morning, I'm thinking that we can easily spend $200k-300k a year, while keeping our investment totals flat. This feels so counter to how we've lived.

I took a peak at your intro post. I think you will find it is easy for the lifestyle "creep" to take hold, especially with kids... those little suckers can cost some dough! Sports, cars, insurance, college, etc... all can make your spend rate go up. I am in my young 50's with 4 kids, DW has been a Domestic goddess since kid 1 was born (27 yrs ago), but we started very modest living within the $50k range (granted, it was about 29 yrs ago), but with 2 kids in college still, our creep has my current annual budget at $350k (taxable), and that is with only a small mortgage I debate about paying off. Honestly, we are living well, but not rediculously execessive. Once I RE in 2 - 3 yrs when last kid graduates, I am planning for a RE budget of around $250k - $275k/yr (Taxable). It will be easier than you think to raise your spending bar which may give you a little pause before pulling the plug with a lucrative income.

[Danmar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawgMan It will be easier than you think to raise your spending bar which may give you a little pause before pulling the plug with a lucrative income.

This is good advice and reflects my experience. You can always use a little more, although eventually you have to put a pin in it. Doesn't sound like you are anywhere near that point yet.

[DawgMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danmar This is good advice and reflects my experience. You can always use a little more, although eventually you have to put a pin in it. Doesn't sound like you are anywhere near that point yet.

For me, and I would assume others, finishing the heavy lifting before you launch RE (i.e. Get gets thru college, knock out a wedding or 2), has been my main marker. Once you've the kids off the payroll I think it is easier to reflect back and look forward and plan for a more reliable desired burn rate for when you do RE. I know there are plenty of exceptions, but I always thought it was too risky to retire with multiple young kids to pay for thru life.

[Toocold]

Quote:

I took a peak at your intro post. I think you will find it is easy for the lifestyle "creep" to take hold, especially with kids... those little suckers can cost some dough! Sports, cars, insurance, college, etc... all can make your spend rate go up. I am in my young 50's with 4 kids, DW has been a Domestic goddess since kid 1 was born (27 yrs ago), but we started very modest living within the $50k range (granted, it was about 29 yrs ago), but with 2 kids in college still, our creep has my current annual budget at $350k (taxable), and that is with only a small mortgage I debate about paying off. Honestly, we are living well, but not rediculously execessive. Once I RE in 2 - 3 yrs when last kid graduates, I am planning for a RE budget of around $250k - $275k/yr (Taxable). It will be easier than you think to raise your spending bar which may give you a little pause before pulling the plug with a lucrative income.

We have 2 kids both about to hit middle school. I'd say that without them we'd be running about $40k, which is easy to do because our house and cars are paid off. So our kids are adding 50% to our costs with their school meals, after school sports, cloths, etc. For college, we have about $100k each and we'll cover any remainder from investments, so I anticipate a spike here, no doubt. Frankly I struggle to find the balance of providing for what they need but keeping them hungry for when they grow up.

I could imagine spending more than $200k-250k a year with three actions: if we moved to a HCOL area, bought a similar sized home for $2.5-$3M, have our kids go to private school, and DW and I leased two 5 series BMWs. Then we'd be uncomfortably close.

I can't imagine our life style going anywhere this level. This life style creep is one of my innate fears being on the FIRE journey for so long.

[Danmar]

I guess there is two types of "lifestyle creep". The kind that isn't intentional and uncomfortably increases your SWR and the kind that is intentional and fully supportable by your means and adds enjoyment or excitement to your lifestyle or helps others. We should be careful to differential these.

We have had some discussion here recently concerning those that would like a little "lifestyle creep" but just can't do it.

[Meadbh]

But what would be wrong with the lifestyle you just described, if you were still LBYM? Would you feel guilty for some reason? What if you could greatly enhance your children's chances of success in life by paying for private school, or by paying college tuition, or even supporting them through graduate school? What if (God forbid) some terrible accident occurred and one of your family had severe brain injury, needing round the clock care? What if you develop a passion for volunteering and discover a cause that really could benefit from your funds? There are many potential opportunities to increase your spending, and feel good about it.

[Toocold]

True. I think Danmar and Meadbh are implying a similar concept, which is to find intentional lifestyle creep that adds more value (or need/protection) to our lives. For me, I'm contemplating intentional lifestyle creep to travel more. What I'm hearing from this wise crowd is that this is ok

[Ready]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawgMan Once I RE in 2 - 3 yrs when last kid graduates, I am planning for a RE budget of around $250k - $275k/yr (Taxable). It will be easier than you think to raise your spending bar which may give you a little pause before pulling the plug with a lucrative income.

I'm curious - what type of things are you spending your money on to get your budget up that high once your kids are out on their own?

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh But what would be wrong with the lifestyle you just described, if you were still LBYM? Would you feel guilty for some reason? What if you could greatly enhance your children's chances of success in life by paying for private school, or by paying college tuition, or even supporting them through graduate school? What if (God forbid) some terrible accident occurred and one of your family had severe brain injury, needing round the clock care? What if you develop a passion for volunteering and discover a cause that really could benefit from your funds? There are many potential opportunities to increase your spending, and feel good about it.

Yeah - I think of a chunk of our nest egg as potential "disaster relief" in case something terrible happened to close family and we could help out.

[MarieIG]

Congratulations on your "problem." You are doing great! I like your idea of increasing your travel budget, that's a good place to start. No need to go from 0 - 60 mph in 2.5 seconds. I would not feel compelled to spend your whole salary now and keep your savings flat thinking that you will go back to your old lifestyle and reduced spending upon your retirement. "How are they going to keep them down on the farm, once they've seen gay Paris?" You may easily retire at 50 or 55 with (by that time) your spacious condo on a Hawaiian beach, and a second home on the mainland. Of course by that time you will be used to traveling first class; and oh, eventually in addition to helping the grandkids with college, you may be flying the grand kids out to visit, or taking the whole family on vacation. In other words, consider enjoying yourself now, and also making a plan to allow you to continue your upgraded lifestyle in retirement. (You also don't know what the future holds, healthwise, etc. )

[socca]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danmar I went from zero to mid eight figures in about a decade.

My mother recently casually told the salesperson at an assisted living facility her net worth. I thought this was a mistake, because (1) loose lips sink ships, and (2) the nail that sticks up gets hammered down.

I'm a fan of the small hat, big cattle lifestyle. How small is too small? I haven't figured that out yet.

[iloveyoga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready I don't like Saturdays at all. Everything is crowded on the weekends and too chaotic. I can't wait for Monday to roll around so everyone goes back to work and gets out of my way. And that's true for me even though I still work part time.

So very true, I love Monday mornings when everyone drives off to work!!

[DawgMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready I'm curious - what type of things are you spending your money on to get your budget up that high once your kids are out on their own?

I suppose the point I was trying to make is until you have run through the sport years, driving years, college years, and throw in a few weddings, and oh, I have worked hard and deserve a few things years... and still are putting away $$ and LBYMs, it's easy to see the creep move you along to a lifestyle you might actually enjoy or want to sustain in RE. I'm not suggesting it's a need, but if you have done the work and can support a certain lifestyle, that's ok. I think just about everyone on this site has a frugal gene in them as that is how they got here. At the same time, I think it is ok to enjoy the fruits of your labor and not feel guilty.

To answer your question directly... we enjoy a good meal, good wine, a nice car, travel, my DW likes nice shoes (ouch!). None of it is necessary and honestly, if the wheels fell off tomorrow, I would be fine in my Tshirt and shorts and a Bud Lite.... but, I am (have) applied the principles everyone discusses here and have learned/taught and in some cases, pushed my self against my frugal nature, to enjoy a few things in life. But that's just me....

[Ready]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawgMan I suppose the point I was trying to make is until you have run through the sport years, driving years, college years, and throw in a few weddings, and oh, I have worked hard and deserve a few things years... and still are putting away $$ and LBYMs, it's easy to see the creep move you along to a lifestyle you might actually enjoy or want to sustain in RE. I'm not suggesting it's a need, but if you have done the work and can support a certain lifestyle, that's ok. I think just about everyone on this site has a frugal gene in them as that is how they got here. At the same time, I think it is ok to enjoy the fruits of your labor and not feel guilty. To answer your question directly... we enjoy a good meal, good wine, a nice car, travel, my DW likes nice shoes (ouch!). None of it is necessary and honestly, if the wheels fell off tomorrow, I would be fine in my Tshirt and shorts and a Bud Lite.... but, I am (have) applied the principles everyone discusses here and have learned/taught and in some cases, pushed my self against my frugal nature, to enjoy a few things in life. But that's just me....

I was really just curious, as we have struggled to increase our consumption even though we can afford to. I was looking for some ideas.

We have been doing a bit of house renovation stuff, which we can easily afford...and I have to remind myself daily that we can afford it so that it doesn't drive me crazy to see how much it all cost, actually.

[Scuba]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawgMan I suppose the point I was trying to make is until you have run through the sport years, driving years, college years, and throw in a few weddings, and oh, I have worked hard and deserve a few things years... and still are putting away $$ and LBYMs, it's easy to see the creep move you along to a lifestyle you might actually enjoy or want to sustain in RE. I'm not suggesting it's a need, but if you have done the work and can support a certain lifestyle, that's ok. I think just about everyone on this site has a frugal gene in them as that is how they got here. At the same time, I think it is ok to enjoy the fruits of your labor and not feel guilty. To answer your question directly... we enjoy a good meal, good wine, a nice car, travel, my DW likes nice shoes (ouch!). None of it is necessary and honestly, if the wheels fell off tomorrow, I would be fine in my Tshirt and shorts and a Bud Lite.... but, I am (have) applied the principles everyone discusses here and have learned/taught and in some cases, pushed my self against my frugal nature, to enjoy a few things in life. But that's just me....

Good for you! Enjoy it while you can. DH & I have a high travel & entertainment budget (at least it is much higher than pre-ER) and believe in enjoying these activities while we're relatively young and healthy. We figure at some point we won't be able to do the adventure travel we now enjoy, and we are already at the point where if we don't carefully manage food and wine consumption, we gain weight. Go for it and enjoy spending your money! Travel, dining out, concerts/live theater, and home improvement projects can help anyone "blow that dough" as Robbie would say.