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Old 06-10-2021, 07:23 PM   #61
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Exactly. I am a landlord and I have been taking every legal deduction available to me. I have been aligning my investments for YEARS so that they will throw very little "income" during my gap years so that I take advantage of Roth conversions and heath insurance subsidies. You can't fault someone for being smart and taking advantage of the laws on the books.

I recently moved a large amount of Taxable VTI into IBKR in anticipation of possibly buying a foreclosure house my daughter was having issues getting an FHA loan approval on. The plan was to borrow against the value of my holdings at a very low interest rate. This was so I didn't have to sell and pay LTCGs on the sale but still have the money. (the point: even the little people can play) At this point the approvals have all been made, now the company managing the house for HUD got sold, they aren't processing any paperwork until the merger is complete.
So after several months delay they get a third delay and won't close until July.
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Old 06-10-2021, 07:25 PM   #62
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The full Ten Years After lyrics are worth posting - from a lyrics website, with breaks shown

Everywhere is freaks and hairies
Dykes and fairies, tell me, where is sanity?
Tax the rich, feed the poor
'Til there are no rich no more

I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you

Population keeps on breeding
Nation bleeding, still more feeding, economy
Life is funny, skies are sunny
Bees make honey, who needs money? No, not poor me

I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you

Oh, yeah

World pollution, there's no solution
Institution, electrocution
Just black and white, rich or poor
Them and us, stop the war

I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you
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Old 06-10-2021, 07:31 PM   #63
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I am generally in the camp that tax structure is developed and tweaked to fund government, and to socially engineer - lots of examples, and frankly, since the US runs a deficit and has huge national debt related to not taxing enough, a case might be made that social engineering is more important?

I would also contend that social engineering extends to businesses and corporations, as well as individuals.
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Old 06-10-2021, 07:37 PM   #64
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Seems that every few years there's a drumbeat of "the rich aren't paying their fair share" and it looks like that wheel has come full circle again.

Then, there's lots of talk, tons of outrage, oodles of proposals and positioning, examples of how X could've help save the life of Y had he only paid more in taxes, and then................Nothing.

Nothing changes, nothing happens.
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Old 06-10-2021, 07:48 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by marko View Post
Seems that every few years there's a drumbeat of "the rich aren't paying their fair share" and it looks like that wheel has come full circle again.

Then, there's lots of talk, tons of outrage, oodles of proposals and positioning, examples of how X could've help save the life of Y had he only paid more in taxes, and then................Nothing.

Nothing changes, nothing happens.


Thatís not really true. Weíve had capital gains cuts and income tax cuts and elimination of whole brackets. And some of that might be reversed soon.
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Old 06-10-2021, 07:56 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by marko View Post
Seems that every few years there's a drumbeat of "the rich aren't paying their fair share" and it looks like that wheel has come full circle again.

Then, there's lots of talk, tons of outrage, oodles of proposals and positioning, examples of how X could've help save the life of Y had he only paid more in taxes, and then................Nothing.

Nothing changes, nothing happens.
As The Who told us 50 years ago:

"And the parting on the left
is now parting on the right,
and the beards have all grown longer overnight."
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Old 06-10-2021, 07:59 PM   #67
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I would almost posit that no one is paying enough - otherwise there would be no deficit or debt, right?
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Old 06-10-2021, 07:59 PM   #68
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I say, if you don't like the tax laws, buy your own legislators.
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Old 06-10-2021, 08:00 PM   #69
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The full Ten Years After lyrics are worth posting - from a lyrics website, with breaks shown

Everywhere is freaks and hairies
Dykes and fairies, tell me, where is sanity?
Tax the rich, feed the poor
'Til there are no rich no more

I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you

Population keeps on breeding
Nation bleeding, still more feeding, economy
Life is funny, skies are sunny
Bees make honey, who needs money? No, not poor me

I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you

Oh, yeah

World pollution, there's no solution
Institution, electrocution
Just black and white, rich or poor
Them and us, stop the war

I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you
You are going to make me pull out my acoustic. My recollection is it is a very straight forward Em, G, Am, C, B7 round with some easy picking.
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Old 06-10-2021, 08:04 PM   #70
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I say, if you don't like the tax laws, buy your own legislators.
It's funny, 'cause it's true.

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Old 06-10-2021, 08:09 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelover View Post
I say, if you don't like the tax laws, buy your own legislators.
It's funny, 'cause it's true.

It’s very true! Seems to be exactly how it works.
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Old 06-10-2021, 08:18 PM   #72
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But if the stock goes down later - ouch! Quite a few got trapped in this with the dot.com bust.
I remember that well.
Lots of rags to riches, to rags stories in the early 2000s
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Old 06-10-2021, 08:32 PM   #73
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I say, if you don't like the tax laws, buy your own legislators.
Thatís the whole point. Well, maybe just part of the point but every tax change is an opportunity for politicians to be bribed..erÖ I mean lobbied.
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Old 06-10-2021, 08:34 PM   #74
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As The Who told us 50 years ago:

"And the parting on the left
is now parting on the right,
and the beards have all grown longer overnight."
Donít forget the conclusion of that epic song:

ďMeet the new boss, same as the old boss.Ē
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:06 PM   #75
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While we are quoting prophetic songs related to this topic , how about the Temptations "Ball of Confusion" from 1970:
==================================

One, two, one, two, three, four, ow

People moving out, people moving in
Why, because of the color of their skin
Run, run, run but you sure can't hide
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth
Vote for me and I'll set you free
Rap on, brother, rap on

Well, the only person talking about love thy brother is the preacher
And it seems nobody's interested in learning but the teacher
Segregation, determination, demonstration, integration
Aggravation, humiliation, obligation to our nation
Ball of confusion
Oh yeah, that's what the world is today
Woo, hey, hey

The sale of pills are at an all time high
Young folks walking round with their heads in the sky
The cities ablaze in the summer time
And oh, the beat goes on

Evolution, revolution, gun control, sound of soul
Shooting rockets to the moon, kids growing up too soon
Politicians say more taxes will solve everything
And the band played on

So, round and around and around we go
Where the world's headed, nobody knows

Oh, great googa-looga, can't you hear me talking to you
Just a ball of confusion
Oh yeah, that's what the world is today
Woo, hey

Fear in the air, tension everywhere
Unemployment rising fast, the Beatles new record's a gas
And the only safe place to live is on an Indian reservation
And the band played on

Eve of destruction, tax deduction, city inspectors, bill collectors
Mod clothes in demand, population out of hand, suicide, too many bills
Hippies moving to the hills, people all over the world are shouting, end the war
And the band played on

Great googa-looga, can't you hear me talking to you
Sayin' ball of confusion
That's what the world is today, hey, hey
Let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya
Sayin', ball of confusion
That's what the world is today, hey, hey
Let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya
Ball of confusion
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:08 PM   #76
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:29 PM   #77
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You are going to make me pull out my acoustic. My recollection is it is a very straight forward Em, G, Am, C, B7 round with some easy picking.
I pulled out my electric, it was closer To my ear, your recollection is good. Great song.

Now I always thought it was interesting that people take that line two ways:

"Tax the rich, feed the poor
'Til there are no rich no more"

I figure that if they thought taxing the rich would end hunger, that line would be " 'Til there are no poor no more". But they don't say that, only that we got rid of the rich! And the poor are still around (I think Jesus had something to say about that)?

Hard to say if that was the intention or not, but I think it is the most reasonable analysis of what is given.

-ERD50
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Old 06-11-2021, 03:44 AM   #78
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That’s not really true. We’ve had capital gains cuts and income tax cuts and elimination of whole brackets. And some of that might be reversed soon.
If course! Taxes go up and down. I was referencing the outrage-- sometimes undeserved-- over billionaire's taxes. As the quotes here from songs that are now 50 years old imply, little has changed.

Meet the new status quo
Same as the old status quo
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Old 06-11-2021, 04:56 AM   #79
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Didn't a lot of those British rock stars move to the US to escape the onerous UK taxes?
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Old 06-11-2021, 05:18 AM   #80
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This article is more of a reflection on the state of modern journalism rather than any information on tax laws and how they affect billionaires.
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