Bonds/Clinton

[mickeyd]

After reading the recent SI that had an excerpt from the new book on Barry Bonds's use of "the clear and the cream" to increase his HR production, it occurs to me that many of his comments on the subject reflect the wordsmith activities of Bill Clinton.

Yes, Barry Bonds is the Bill Clinton of Major League baseball. "I did not have sex with..." and "I did not inhale..." have been repeated so many times that "I was not aware that I was taking a banned drug" sounds almost believable.

 

[astromeria]

It's a darn good thing that nobody ever lied, exxagerated, or misled other than Bill Clinton! Aluminum tubes, Iran-Contra, Watergate anyone?

Just sayin'

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

If clinton had killed anyone with his dick, or sprayed anyone with bird pellets from his joint, I'd probably care.

Actually if he killed someone with his dick, i'd be impressed.

 

[brewer12345]

And last I heard, the money wasted by Clinton's indiscretions (through investigations, etc.) was in the millions of dollars. I used to think it was a big deal until seeing "emergency" military spending bills hitting us up for $50+ BILLION at least once a year.

 

[renferme]

I guess it's time for the left wing, liberal, socialist Democrats on this board to
whine !
.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Wow that sucks. I figured by voting for Bush (the first time), Dole, GHW Bush and Reagan I sort of leaned a little bit away from the 'left wing, liberal, socialist democrat' side of the house. I guess maybe I should read my voter registration card before I make a comment, to make sure what I'm saying is in line with my voting party.

I didnt vote for clinton. I didnt care much for a lot of the things he did. But at least he was a well spoken non-idiot. What he did with his dick was not only none of my business, I didnt like my tax dollars spent on the witch hunt.

 

[brewer12345]

I guess it's time for the left wing, liberal, socialist Democrats on this board to
whine !
.

Like CFB, I'm not sure you could characterize me accurately by what you wrote, ben. I have voted republican straight up the line in local elections for years, while voting for democratic senators, congressional representatives and presidential candidates. If the republicans fielded the better choice, I would vote for him. Hasn't been the case in national elections in my voting lifetime.

 

[setab]

Frankly, I'm tired of this whole discussion, and I am not directing that towards anyone here who is discussing it.  I can see both points of view, but without getting into the morality of either side, I can say with a 99 percent degree of certainty that had I, as a federal employee, done what President Clinton did in the work place, I would have been fired.  On the other hand, I might have been fired for gross incompetence if I had spent billions of dollars and thousands of lives looking for WMD that weren't there also.  And we won't even get into the emasculation of the Bill of Rights both sides voted for in the Patriot Act.  

As the Kingston Trio sang:

"And I don't like anybody very much!"

setab

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I agree.

Besides, its our fault. We keep paying $400 to take our family to a baseball game so a billionaire can get richer, and therefore afford to pay a ball player tens of millions of dollars a year. With that kind of money on the line, and injuries, competition and aging facing a player, the temptation to get a leg up is probably irresistable. As Pete Rose said on some interview I saw last week, everybody is probably taking something now, so its still all relative. Even on steroids, some guys couldnt hit home runs like bonds does. I would add that they shouldnt be compared to players of yesteryear with regards to records. I think "eras" should be established for pro sports and players own the records for their era. How do you compare 200-400lb guys who have a nutritionist (who is probably giving him supplements), several personal trainers, individual coaches and full offseason programs with a 150lb guy who had to put down the chicken leg and stub out the butt because it was his at-bat, with his coaching being one of the guys yelling "Go Johnny!".

Same thing with politics. We voted those guys in and then the sour grapes that didnt get 'their guy' take potshots at him. We've created the environment where we get two nearly identical douchebags that are just lobbysists marionettes. Only difference is which one gets the most yellow-dog votes and has the better marketing campaign.

 

[brewer12345]

Only hope is to split up control of Congress and the WH, IMO.

 

[Nords]

... had I, as a federal employee, done what President Clinton did in the work place, I would have been fired.

Is it easier to impeach a President than to fire a civil-service employee?

 

[setab]

Is it easier to impeach a President than to fire a civil-service employee?

No, but it sure gets more publicity.

setab

 

[azanon]

I can say with a 99 percent degree of certainty that had I, as a federal employee, done what President Clinton did in the work place, I would have been fired.

If it got around to everyone, and several people caught you, then maybe.   Otherwise, you'd be looking at a reprimand or maybe it just being swept under the rug.    I'm 99 percent certain federal employees, at least where i work, get 2, 15-minute breaks a day.    I dont know about you, but 15 minutes is more than enough time for me, and there are plenty of storage rooms around where i work.  Also, in my state, sex is not illegal.  Adultry is, technically, but its not enforced.

We had a guy get caught sleeping at his desk by the "chief"; the boss of all bosses where i work (i wont be more specific than that).  At least folks having sex are actually doing something! He made up some bs story about being on medication. He wasn't even reprimanded.

On the other hand, I might have been fired for gross incompetence if I had spent billions of dollars and thousands of lives looking for WMD that weren't there also.

You would think.....   /sigh.

 

[Texas Proud]

I know I should not be doing this... but I might as well thow in my 2 cents...

I did not care if he inhaled.. or what or where he stuck it.... (Flowers etc.)

BUT, he was the 'boss' of Lewisky... much more power than she had.. so, sticking it there is wrong... but again, not so terrible...

But, then he lied under oath about it... and kept the lie up even when caught... now you have a crime...

Do I believe he killed people like other say... NO... do I believe that he raped other women... maybe... do I think he was a womanizer and would bed many women YES... do I care... NO, Yes (if true) and no..

Now, about the current prez.... I am getting very frustrated like most people... I am very surprised how many people do not care about the wire tapping.. I am a very conservative guy, and think it is illegal... I do not want it to stop, but just use the courts and make sure nobody's right are being violated.. but I also blame the Republicans in office for spending like drunken sailors... they put an 8 TRILLION debt on the country with the prescription drugs law with no funding.. they spend money worse than the dems...

OH, about Bonds... I think they should not recognize any records from people who get caught taking illegal substances... NONE... you can have another whole section of enhanced players, but they should not even be in the list with an asterick... now, if that is implemented I am sure some of the guys will stop using to preserve their place in history..

 

[azanon]

I know I should not be doing this... but I might as well thow in my 2 cents...

I did not care if he inhaled.. or what or where he stuck it....  (Flowers etc.)

BUT, he was the 'boss' of Lewisky... much more power than she had..  so, sticking it there is wrong... but again, not so terrible...

But, then he lied under oath about it... and kept the lie up even when caught... now you have a crime...

Do I believe he killed people like other say... NO... do I believe that he raped other women... maybe... do I think he was a womanizer and would bed many women YES...  do I care... NO, Yes (if true) and no..

To all of this i say, big deal.  Surely people have more important things to worry about, than a secretary coming in his office for 10-15 minutes with a pizza and a cigar, with the door closed.   Its not like he wansn't doing his job too.   

If someone asked me under oath what I do in private situations, i'd probably either lie or say none of your business.   There are times when it is appropriate to lie.  I can think of a myraid of examples. 

So, people focus on his lies.  I focused on the nosy questions. Cant a guy deal with his likely sexless, unhappy marriage in peace?

OH, about Bonds...  I think they should not recognize any records from people who get caught taking illegal substances... NONE... you can have another whole section of enhanced players, but they should not even be in the list with an asterick...  now, if that is implemented I am sure some of the guys will stop using to preserve their place in history..

Why do people think they can compare the athelets of decades ago to those of today, steriods or no steroids.  Rules change, nutrition changes, length of seasons change, fitness training knowledge chances (improves), on and on and on.

The harm of steroids is not making current athelets no longer compariable to the old ones.   You cant do that anyway because of other differences.  The harm is that for kids to be able to compete, they are going to have to decide between also taking them themselves to remain competitive and thus hurt their bodies, or have an unfair disadvantage because they chose not to. 

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Technically while in office, Clinton was "the boss of" everyone. So no sex for him? On the other hand, that means he wouldnt have to have sex with hillary, which would be a plus.

 

[azanon]

Technically while in office, Clinton was "the boss of" everyone. So no sex for him? On the other hand, that means he wouldnt have to have sex with hillary, which would be a plus.

I'm definitely not saying what he did was right. But if they were looking for someone that cared about that situation to hold his feet to the fire, they'd have to pick someone besides me. Ultimately, i just want the president to do his job.

About the only thing he did that really bothered me was him pardoning all those prisoners right before he left office.

......

Hillary's not that bad, given her age, with makeup on. She seems to be taking care of herself.

 

[dusk_to_dawn]

There are times when it is appropriate to lie.  I can think of a myraid of examples. 

When you are under oath is not one of those times.


When your wife asks if a certain dress makes her look fat, that is a time when it is appropriate to lie.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I guess you have to ask first why the president's time is being taken up with a committee asking him the question in the first place.

Its not like he was getting a hummer from a north korean agent...

 

[HFWR]

When your wife asks if a certain dress makes her look fat, that is a time when it is appropriate to lie.

But that, too, is an inappropriate question...  

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

And make sure you're wearing your protective headgear...

 

[azanon]

When you are under oath is not one of those times.

I dont see how [    "Yes, i had sex with her..."     Next question, what specifically did you do  "I inserted a cigar in her..... "  ]
...  would have made the situation better.     

You think that's a better scenario?   I think he was looking at definite lose (telling the truth) vs maybe not losing (take your chances at lying).   He made the statistically wise choice.

Deny until the very end is still the best option 

................

I think the debate continues to this day whether he really had "sexual relations" with her, does it not?
Is foreplay only, sex?  What about just flirting?  Do backrubs count?  Someone clear this up for me.

In Pulp Fiction, that guy just rubbed the bosses's wife's feet. I loved that scene where they argued whether it was right or wrong.

 

[Texas Proud]

I guess you have to ask first why the president's time is being taken up with a committee asking him the question in the first place.

Its not like he was getting a hummer from a north korean agent...

It wasn't a committee... it was a deposition on a lawsuit brought by 'what's her name'... who said she was sexually harassed. He could have just said nothing, told the truth or lied.... only one is breaking the law, which he chose.

NOW, if he had settled the case like his lawyers had told him to do, it would not have happend either.

Me, I did not like him anyhow as I thought he was a con man, but at least with him there was a stalemate between the Congress and the White House so neither was spending money on their pet projects... that looks like the best way for the country.

 

[brewer12345]

stalemate between the Congress and the White House so neither was spending money on their pet projects... that looks like the best way for the country.

Sounds good to me. I am hoping that the Senate goes solidly democrat this year and the house ends up on the razor edge.

 

[Texas Proud]

Why do people think they can compare the athelets of decades ago to those of today, steriods or no steroids.  Rules change, nutrition changes, length of seasons change, fitness training knowledge chances (improves), on and on and on.

The harm of steroids is not making current athelets no longer compariable to the old ones.   You cant do that anyway because of other differences.  The harm is that for kids to be able to compete, they are going to have to decide between also taking them themselves to remain competitive and thus hurt their bodies, or have an unfair disadvantage because they chose not to. 

There are many records that will not be broken by today's players in baseball. They do not play as much... This is from memory, but I believe the most wins is about 505... nobody will come close in today's game... and don't count complete games.. it is hard to have more than a few today..

And then there is Wilt with an average of 50 points a game, 20 plus rebounds and 10 plus assists... or AVERAGING a triple double for a full season.. (again... all from memory so I can be off as I have not looked in many years)